3.5e: Multiclassing Query

[Zerkai]

Hello ^^;

I'm about to start a lvl 8 campaign with some friends of mine, and I've chosen a Drow Necromancer (True Nuetral). But I was looking stuff up, and his stats would also make a great Bard, and I could use the extra Skill and Hit Points, so I decided to level 5 in Wizard(Necromancer) and 3 in Bard, but it's my first time multi classing, and I was wondering about skill points for my bard. Since it is my first bard level, to I start out with (6 + INT Modifier) x4, or do I get 6 + INT mod per level?

I was curious, because I could start out as a bard to get those extra skill points, then go to Wizardry if not.

[Saph]

You get (6+Int) x 4 skill points for your first level in Bard. From then on it depends on level: 6+Int skill points for each level in Bard, and 2+Int skill points for each level in Wizard.

Taking your first level in a class with lots of skill points is a good way to boost your skills. The price you pay is a much weaker spellcasting ability; you won't get much from those Bard levels except for the skills.

- Saph

[BobVosh]

I'm guessing you are new from this post. As such if you are expecting your Necromancer to have undead, unless you are singularly rich, I would recommend changing to Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror. It is charisma based, and does the "undead" thing much better than standard wizard.

And yes, as he said your first class level, or hit dice, grants the one time x4 bonus. So wizard 5/bard 3 is weaker than bard 3/wizard 5. In terms of hit points (first level is maxed) and skill points. Bizarre, but welcome to D&D.

[Kaihaku]

...and Use Magic Device.

[Tsotha-lanti]

This is answered in the PHB section on multiclassing, but no - the quadruple skill points are only for your first character level, not for your first class level.

Similarly, if you had 1 racial HD and took a class, you would not get quadruple skill points for the class level - you already got them for your 1st HD, the racial one.

Wizard/Bard is a pretty horrible multiclass combination, though. I guess you could qualify for the spontaneous/prepared multiclass caster from Complete Mage or whatever, though.

Edit: On closer reading, you don't specify which comes first, or if this character starts at level 1 or what. The above still applies, but I suppose I should clarify for this case specifically: You only get the quadruple skill points once. If your first character level is in wizard, you get quadruple wizard skill points (or [2+Int mod] x4). If your first character level is in bard, you get quadruple bard skill points (or [6+Int mod] x4). For all other levels, regardless of class, you only get X+Int mod skill points, no quadrupling.

[Zerkai]

Ah, I'm sorry then ^^; for not specifying. I mean to first start out as a Wizard, then Bard, but since it starts at your first Class level, I'll start out as a Bard, then switch to Wizard ( Brd 3 / Wiz 5).

Since Wizard is a Drow Male's favored class, there's no XP bonus from Multi-classing, right?

[Tsotha-lanti]

You mean XP penalty, I think. And no, you won't have one, since one of the classes is your favored class.

But that combination still sucks, seriously. You won't be much good at anything. Go straight wizard or something. Multiclassing into a horribly weak combination ("double arcane caster" is worthless, unless you're using that PrC from Complete Mage) just because your stats would make you "good" at it (they won't, in fact) is not a good idea.

What's the concept you want to play? I'm sure we can come up with better ways to realize it.

[Dhavaer]

Since Wizard is a Drow Male's favored class, there's no XP bonus from Multi-classing, right?

No penalty. Your favoured class doesn't count for multiclassing.

[BobVosh]

As they said no penalty, due to favored class.

Also they are 2 levels apart, so no penalty for keeping the classes similiar level.

[Zerkai]

Ack... the typo curse, yeah, I meant penalty. But as to why I wanted to multi-class to Bard.

Since Wizards have such low hit dice, and skill points, I wanted to multi-class to a class that had higher skil points, hit points, and still had some arcane power.

[BobVosh]

I would recommend rogue, or factotum then. Maybe even spellthief with master spellthief feat.

[Eldariel]

The problem is, since Bard doesn't advance your Wizard casting, the fact that Bard has some arcane abilities doesn't help you at all - the advancement still stops (and you start another one from the beginning). Because caster advancement is exponential (every time you gain new caster levels, you get: new spells, more power to your old spells and stronger spell levels - so your casting advances to 3 directions), you lose much more than you gain by multiclassing. If you don't advance your Wizard-casting, you lose all 3 of those progressions, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out, that's a bad thing.

What could work out for you is actually Swiftblade. It gets more skills than a straight Wizard, Fighter HD and still continues to advance casting (while specializing in the Haste-spell and losing a few caster levels) - basically, a more skilled and better warrior, but worse caster. Also, don't be fooled by Wizards' low skillpoints - Wizard is Intelligence-based so they're among the most skilled classes of the game. First level Wizard can easily get 7*4 skills, and 7 every level after that (before upping to 8 on level 8).

[Zerkai]

Thanks, I didn't even know about Swiftblades up untill now .

This has also been my first wizard actually, usually I'm a Rouge, which is why I felt a little weird having so few starting skill points.

Well, it seems I meet the requirements to take the SwiftBlade class after 6th level, So I'll do that instead of becoming a Bard.

Though I'm not that proficient with Prestige Classes either, usually I just stick to a single class... anything important I should know about Prestige Classes?

[Eldariel]

They're just like normal classes, except they have prerequisites to enter. Basically allows you to specialize in some area of what you're doing. The only notable difference between a normal class and a prestige class is that prestige classes don't count towards Favored Class, so you can multiclass in however many Prestige Classes you want over the course of your career (of course, generally excessive multiclassing just serves to make your character suck).

Another class you could consider is the "Unseen Seer" from Complete Mage (if you've got the book) - it's pretty much the quinessential Rogue/Wizard combo. Taking Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10 would get you almost Rogueish skillpoints and almost full Wizard-casting.

[JeminiZero]

Since Wizards have such low hit dice, and skill points, I wanted to multi-class to a class that had higher skil points, hit points, and still had some arcane power.

Maybe go for 1 Divine Bard / 3 Wizard / X Geomancer with alternate spell source. Go for human with Able Learner, and you'll be able to keep those tasty Bard skills maxed. Use Geomancer to advance Wizard spell casting and for Spell versatility to ignore ASF.

Something like this.

[Shai'Hulud]

My apologies as this is a little bit off topic but where is the 3.5 geomancer. I can only find the geomancer class in 3.0 books.

[Grynning]

Complete Divine.

[Shai'Hulud]

Thanks a ton. I may have to hunt down a copy of Complete Divine then.

[Chronos]

This has also been my first wizard actually, usually I'm a Rouge, which is why I felt a little weird having so few starting skill points.

Wizard has just about the right number of skill points, for the skills they'll find useful. You get enough to max 2 plus your Int modifier. Well, you'll pretty much need Concentration, so other combatants can't shut you down, and Spellcraft, for learning new spells and the like. That leaves you a number of points equal to your Int modifier to spend on various Knowledge skills, or maybe dip a bit into a few Crafts (you can afford to only put a few points into each Craft skill, since most of them are fairly easy). So, for instance, if you have 16 Int, your skills might looks something like maxed Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (the Planes), with smatterings of Craft (carpentry), Craft (masonry), and Craft (alchemy).

While we're at it on general advice, Drow have a level adjustment, which is bad. Some races with LA are decent for some types of characters, but Drow aren't one of them, and even the ones that are worthwhile are almost never good for spellcasters (one or two more levels of your spellcasting class is almost always better than whatever you're getting from the race).