Crossbow Striker [4E]

[Eldmor]

The thought occurred to me, how are crossbows in 4e compared to bows? Bows have higher damage, and a ranger would always have one over a crossbow. Then I notice, ranged rogue powers can use crossbows.
So what powers would you nab from rogue for a ranger using a crossbow? If I ever use the concept, I would make him a Dwarf with a hunting background. Just seems fitting to me.

[fractic]

Crossbows are simple weapons while bows are military. It only makes sense for them to be less good. If you just want to use a crossbow for flavour ask your DM to use one with the stats of a longbow.

[Eldmor]

Crossbows are simple weapons while bows are military. It only makes sense for them to be less good. If you just want to use a crossbow for flavour ask your DM to use one with the stats of a longbow.

I did consider that, but I think there might be some interesting power combos to be found in Archery Ranger/Dodge Rogue.

[clericwithnogod]

Hand Crossbow work for you? Try a Drow Rogue with the feat from the Forgotten Realms player book that bumps hand crossbow damage up to D8 and adds the Improved crit property maybe...

[ShaggyMarco]

Or play a Dwarven Rogue (Artful Dodger) with Warrior of the Wild feat and power swap in some Ranger Powers that give you some extra awesomeness at range.

Focus your stats in Dex (+1 pretty much every level you can), with secondary focus (alternate +1 points) given to Wis (dwarf bonus) and Cha. Dump Str and Int with a decent Con. Make sure to Pick up Great Fortitude in Paragon so your Fortitude Defense doesn't completely suck.

You are only Crossbow proficient, but you can be a really stealthy sniper-type.

[Eldmor]

Or play a Dwarven Rogue (Artful Dodger) with Warrior of the Wild feat and power swap in some Ranger Powers that give you some extra awesomeness at range.

Except rogues aren't proficient with the Crossbow, only the Hand Crossbow.
I'll want at least a Constitution of 15 by Paragon tier for Steady Shooter; +3 damage for just standing still is huge.

[ShaggyMarco]

Wow. I thought Rogues were proficient with all simple melee and ranged weapons, plus certain martial/exotic weapons.

So, there is NO PC class designed to be able to take advantage of crossbows.

Clerics will have access to STR and therefore, heavy thrown weapons, if they don't have strength, then they are laser clerics with little need for ranged weapons.

Fighters will have high strength and want to use heavy thrown. If they NEED extra range, they can use longbows.

Rangers have Bows.

Rogues are not proficient with simple weapons.

Warlocks have eldrith blast.

Warlords also will use heavy thrown weapons. I guess they could use crossbows for range.

Wizards have magic missile and are not proficient.

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, there is NO PC class designed to be able to take advantage of crossbows.

Range is the only reason anyone would use Crossbows. 15/30 is a lot more than the 5 or 10 that most PCs get out of their ranged powers (or Heavy Thrown). That's pretty much the point. If you're fighting at 5, you should be using powers or Heavy Thrown, if you're at 10 you can suck the -2 to hit (very painful in 4e) or switch to Hand Crossbows or Slings. At more than 10, you'll need a real bow or a Crossbow.

Rogues really should only use Hand Crossbows unless they plan on being Snipers. 10/20 for 1d6 damage is about the best they can get for medium ranged weapons that they'd be using while sneaking around.

A real Sniper Rogue would be a Rogue/Ranger (note that the Minor Reload doesn't interfere with Ranger powers) who operates at long range from cover. They would use their Rogue powers to move into position, gain Sneak Attack damage, and remain in cover. Ranger provides multi-attacks (nice for minions) and extra Hunter's Quarry damage.

[ShaggyMarco]

The build above still works with a dwarven rogue/ranger, just using a hand crossbow.

Stats that would work:

Str 10
Con 14
Dex 18
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 14

Then you could put a point in Dex every level, and put 4 points/2 points in Charisma/Wisdom, whichever you want higher, based on the powers you pick. Con would end up 15 at Paragon so you have the prereqs for Steady Shooter and Armor Spec (Hide)

Your dex would be high enough to hit regularly and you would only have dex-based powers. You'd also usually have a hand free, so you can do things like dangle from ropes or swing on Chandeliers while shooting your hand crossbow.

Could be a fun character to play.

Train in: Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatics, Athletics, Dungeoneering, Perception, and Nature (Warrior of the Wild).

Pretty good dwarven hunter if you ask me. Now to get a Gun instead...

[Eldmor]

So what powers from Rogue or Ranger are worth the multiclass to swap for? I'm not so great on power analysis with different classes.

[Oracle_Hunter]

So what powers from Rogue or Ranger are worth the multiclass to swap for? I'm not so great on power analysis with different classes.

Definitely Rogue to Ranger - if you're just a Ranger, you might as well use a Longbow rather than use a Crossbow for the 1/Encounter Sneak Attack damage.

As for power swaps - well, Rogues don't have many good ranged attacks. At 4th level you can swap pretty much any Rogue Encounter for a superior Ranger Encounter (Two Fang at 1st or Disruptive Strike at 3rd). You'll probably not want to swap Utilities (Rogues have nice Utilities), but for Dailies, swap your Level 9 for really any Ranger 9 Daily. Attacks on the Run might be best for a Sniper, but Close Quarter Shot looks pretty.

That's it for Heroic. If your DM allows it, you could go for the Beast Stalker PP, or you can just choose one of the excellent Rogue PP's.

[ShaggyMarco]

As for Rogue PPs, the only one good for a Crossbow Rogue is Master Infiltrator.

Shadow Assassin is okay, but Shadow Assassin's Riposte and Final Blow aren't great for this build as you shouldn't let enemies get adjacent to you to even be affected by the Riposte, and Final Blow forces you to move NEXT to an enemy, which, as an archer, is a bad idea, friend.

I would second getting your DM to allow Beast Stalker...it is possibly RAI to be allowed anyway (no way of knowing for sure), and you are giving up some of the class abilities constant usefulness due to your more limited Hunter's Quarry.

[Jared]

Can you use a longbow while prone?

I was pondering the prone sniper (attackers have a -2 to hit you at range) and whether or not you could fire prone with bows.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Can you use a longbow while prone?

I was pondering the prone sniper (attackers have a -2 to hit you at range) and whether or not you could fire prone with bows.

There's no RAW as far as I know, but I wouldn't allow it. You try firing a longbow while lying down

Also: old thread! How to people find these things to Zombify?

[Colmarr]

One of the latest advertising bits from WotC said that Martial Power will include information for crossbow rangers. I can't recally where I read it, unfortunately.

EDIT: Oops. Didn't realise this was a zombie thread...

[Mauril Everleaf]

I don't know where they find them, but I'm glad I they did. I just built this guy and he is awesome!

[Jared]

Google search: 4e crossbows and this thread pops up. And man, it's not THAT old...

:)

[InaVegt]

Google search: 4e crossbows and this thread pops up. And man, it's not THAT old...

:)

There's a rule about thread necromancy on this forum, and this thread was dead by it's standards.

[Lord_Ventnor]

No one's mentioned the Superior Crossbow from the Adventurer's Vault yet? 1d10 damage and its the most accurate ranged weapon there is (outside of shuriken, of course). The extra to-hit is also a good reason for Rangers to use one as well, and the Swiftshot enhancement from the same book means loading it is a free action.

[greenknight]

No one's mentioned the Superior Crossbow from the Adventurer's Vault yet? 1d10 damage and its the most accurate ranged weapon there is (outside of shuriken, of course). The extra to-hit is also a good reason for Rangers to use one as well, and the Swiftshot enhancement from the same book means loading it is a free action.

I posted a Rogue build which uses the Superior Crossbow here. I think using this crossbow is probably the best tactic available to a Rogue from level 16 on, although prior to that it's probably only a secondary tactic because Rogues need some way to get Combat Advantage every round.

[SadisticFishing]

Swiftshot Superior Crossbow is very good, imho. Adventurer's Vault for both.

Only +3 ranged weapon in the game at the moment, I believe.

[Mando Knight]

Yep, Superior Crossbow. Good for Rogues since it's a viable Sneak Attack weapon, and OK for Rangers since it's got a +3 attack bonus (it's a Bastard Sword with range!). If you want to make a Crossbow Sniper, Adv. Vault's the way to go.