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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Alright, I am starting a Expadition to Castle Ravenloft Campaign, and am rather overwhelmed by the feat choices in 3.5

    I am playing a Goliath Warblade, using LA buyoff. Starting level is 7, so he is L6 after buyoff.

    Flaws and Traits allowed, but I am only taking one Flaw (Shaky)
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    The plan is to use a Greatsword, and focus on damage. What feats and items do you, the GiTP experts, suggest?

    1. (standard)
    1. (Flaw)
    3. Combat Focus
    5. Combat Reflexes (Warlord Bonus)
    6. (standard)

    I was planning to get Combat Awareness and Combat Vigor when I reach those levels.Is this a viable build? Should I go Crusader instead? A different race? I have heard Ravenloft is undead focused.

    The rest of the party is Cleric/Rogue, Warlock/Rogue, Paladin, Fighter, Wizard


    Stats: Str 20 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 13 Cha 8
    Stances: Punishing Stance, ?
    Maneuvers: Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Mountain Hammer, Action Before Thought, Iron Heart Surge, Bone Crusher

    I traded up at levels 4 and 6, so if I did that right, he has 2 1st levels, 2 second levels, and 2 third level maneuvers.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 01:20 PM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Warblades make very nice melee fighters, especially around the levels you're playing at. Assuming you're going to stick with one, here are my feat suggestions:

    Power Attack is essential.

    Adaptive Style isn't quite essential, but it's very very good. It lets you switch out your maneuvers in 1 round instead of 5 minutes - that's a big, big difference.

    I'd also recommend earmarking your level 6 feat for Martial Stance. This lets you get one of the very nice level 3 Warblade stances, such as Absolute Steel or Pearl of Black Doubt, instead of playing most of the game with only level 1 stances instead.

    Martial Study for Divine Spirit maneuvers can be good too - Crusaders have access to some really nice stuff.

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    Last edited by Saph; 2008-09-05 at 01:11 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Hmm, seems I need more help then I thought... I thought I was eligible for Absolute Steel. Oops. Updating first post with maneuvers and stances. And, Power Attack was on the short list, but its core, and with all the splat books out, I wasn't sure if it was worth it.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 01:17 PM.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Adaptive Style is pretty weak for a Warblade unless you truly specialize in sitiuational maneuvers switching 'em from fight to fight. I'd get Knockback (Races of Stone) or at least consider it - you're a Goliath after all (would combine perfectly with Dungeon Crasher Fighter). Power Attack is indeed a must, and Stand Still (Expanded Psionics) is quite solid, especially with Combat Reflexes.

    Also, you could multiclass for two levels in Fighter (picking Dungeon Crasher in the process) and take level 6 in Warblade - that would allow for the maneuvers to fall in right to pick up Absolute Steel.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-09-05 at 01:26 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    With splatbooks, power attack is even more worth it than usual, since a lot of other feats enhance or otherwise improve Power Attack. (Dare I say... Leap Attack and Shock Trooper?)
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by kjones View Post
    With splatbooks, power attack is even more worth it than usual, since a lot of other feats enhance or otherwise improve Power Attack. (Dare I say... Leap Attack and Shock Trooper?)
    I am trying to avoid pure cheese... Just want a good melee build.

    Dungeon Crasher is in Dungeonscape? Ah, found it... looks rather situational... Mountain Hammer does 4d6 already, and is a standard action. OOoh, Knockback changes everything....
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 01:36 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSepp View Post
    I have heard Ravenloft is undead focused.
    Understate much?

    To just ditto, Power Attack is mandatory. Ignore Adaptive Style at this point, as a Warblade you are not there to have extreme choices in your maneuvers - that's for the swordsage. Bring your heavy pain-giving maneuvers and go to town.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Yeah, also, dips are beneficial. A couple-level delay in Stance progression is better than going straight, other than at high levels. Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 4 still has 3rd level maneuvers, and gains a bunch of skills, Favored Enemy:Undead, and a bonus feat at the cost of 5 HP.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Alright, so here is what I am thinking
    Oh, Max HP, so 5 isn't a big deal. I need to check the multiclass restrictions before I go crazy on them, though.
    Flaw (Shaky - 2 to range attacks)

    Fighter 1
    Power Attack
    Improve Bull Rush
    Knockback
    Fighter 2
    Dungeon Crasher Variant
    Warblade 1
    ????? Stand Still?
    Warblade 2
    Warblade 3
    Warblade 4
    ??????
    Warblade 5 (Need 3000 xp)
    Bonus Feat (Combat Reflexes)
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 02:14 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    For your 6th level feat, take Martial Study. 3rd level maneuvers are Godly, and taking a maneuver from Devoted Spirit means you qualify for Thicket of Blades with your 12th level feat.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Any specific Maneuver? I have never played a Crusader, and know nothing of devoted spirit.

    Also, Items? A Truedeath Chrystal is a no brainer, and a +1 weapon... The 6k cap means no Transmutating weapon, sadly.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 02:31 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    The thing there is that both of the level 3 Devoted Spirit maneuvers--Revitalizing Strike and Defensive Rebuke--require you to already have 1 DS maneuver known before taking them. If you want Thicket of Blades (you do, trust me) you'd be stuck with another second level DS maneuvers. Since you're using a two handed weapon, that would be Foehammer. A good choice either way, I think.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Your first level should be in Warblade though. It gets bigger HD and more skills than Fighter - absolutely no reason not to.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Your first level should be in Warblade though. It gets bigger HD and more skills than Fighter - absolutely no reason not to.
    Other than Maneuver choice, but that's not too big of a difference, either way.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Especially with the maneuver trade available at level 4.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSepp View Post
    I am trying to avoid pure cheese... Just want a good melee build.
    Most of the best damage combos start with Power Attack. Leap Attack is more of a Tiger Claw kind of thing, particularly if you're focusing on a Pounce/Charge build. Improved Bull Rush + Shock Trooper is very effective but it's an "all your eggs in one basket" gamble, insta-kill if you hit but world of hurt for you if you miss.

    PA + Combat Focus + Combat Vigor sounds fine (hey, free HP), but I'd recommend against Combat Awareness. Requires another feat, and if you really want to know the HP total of whoever is adjacent to you, just beat them into a bloody pulp until they drop, and then you know they are < 0.

    If you're looking for a good anti-undead (or Pro-Ravenloft) feat, grab the Sun Devotion from Complete Champion:

    http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...un_Devotion,CC

    1/day, generates 10' of *true sunlight* (none of this "daylight is not daylight" nonsense). Also deals +1 sacred damage per character level. Lasts 1 minute. If you pick up turn undead via cleric/paladin, you can use it more often by burning turning attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSepp View Post
    Dungeon Crasher is in Dungeonscape? Ah, found it... looks rather situational... Mountain Hammer does 4d6 already, and is a standard action. OOoh, Knockback changes everything....
    If you want to see how much havoc you can do with Dungeon Crasher, take a look at Person_Man's "Flaming Homer the Bowling Ball of Doom":

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=22

    For stances, you'll probably spend maybe 95% of your time in Punishing Stance. If you don't dip two levels of something else before you take Warblade 4, you'll have to pick up another 1st level stance. Take Leading the Charge. Great stance for the whole party to enjoy, and the damage scales up as you gain more levels. I'd actually recommend this stance over any of the 3rd level Warblade stances. After the first round of combat, you can switch back to Punishing Stance.

    The only other 3rd level stance I'd really recommend would be Thicket of Blades, but you'd have to spend two feats to get it. Thicket of Blades is one of the cornerstones of a Stand Still/Lockdown build, and for that you'd want a reach weapon and a much higher Dex for lots of AoOs.

    If you do dip Crusader for Thicket of Blades or later Aura of Chaos (best stance for a Greatsword, pick it up at ECL 12 via Martial Stance if possible), there's an interesting combo with Stone Power and Lady's Gambit:

    http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-..._Gambit,Dragon

    Take 4 HP damage for +2 hit/+2 damage, put it in your Steely Resolve and get +1 hit, then Stone Power -2 hit for 4 temp HP to cancel the Lady's Gambit damage. Net result: +1 hit/+2 damage every round.

    Oh, and switch Bone Crusher to White Raven Tactics. Check with your DM how he feels about allowing you to count yourself as an ally (Sage Advice says you can't for WRT, but that's RAI not RAW). Even if you can only use it on someone else, getting to act twice a turn is immensely useful (particularly for spellcasters).

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Okay, so... a Warblade1/Fighter2/Warblade3 would have 3 1st, 2 2nd, and 1 3rd level Maneuver?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    You'd have:

    3 1st level maneuvers
    2 1st-2nd level maneuvers

    1 trade (could be to a 3rd level maneuver)

    1 1st level stance
    1 1st-3rd level stance
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-09-05 at 03:22 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    No Dragon/Dungeon allowed, so Ladys Gambit is out

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Adaptive Style is pretty weak for a Warblade unless you truly specialize in sitiuational maneuvers switching 'em from fight to fight.
    I found it pretty useful last time I played a Warblade. Warblades get very few maneuvers readied at one time, so being able to shuffle situational maneuvers like Moment of Perfect Mind and Mountain Hammer in and out is handy It also gives you a fallback option if you find you've gone into a battle with the wrong 'payload'. Adaptive Style also becomes more and more useful the more times you've taken Martial Study.

    2 levels of Fighter and 4 levels of Warblade is a solid build, giving you a level 3 stance at level 6. The only drawback is that you'll have to wait to pick up Combat Reflexes.

    My picks for your maneuvers would be between:

    1st-level: Steel Wind/Leading the Attack/Moment of Perfect Mind
    2nd-level: Wall of Blades/Mountain Hammer/Emerald Razor
    3rd-level: Iron Heart Surge/White Raven Tactics

    There are more good maneuvers than you have slots, so you'll have to make some difficult choices.

    Stances: Punishing Stance, Absolute Steel

    Then use Martial Study to pick other nice ones. Foehammer and Crusader's Strike are both good choices, as they let you get Thicket of Blades by taking Martial Stance later (or even at level 6 if you want).

    - Saph
    Last edited by Saph; 2008-09-05 at 05:22 PM.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    I personally prefer Leading the Charge for level 1 stance. It truly shines later on, but since the game already starts from level 6, I'd rather have Leading the Charge than Punishing Stance. It especially combines well with the White Raven-charges (obviously) and Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw), but also some Diamond Mind like Bounding Assault (a really awesome maneuver, btw).
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    I personally prefer Leading the Charge for level 1 stance. It truly shines later on, but since the game already starts from level 6, I'd rather have Leading the Charge than Punishing Stance. It especially combines well with the White Raven-charges (obviously) and Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw), but also some Diamond Mind like Bounding Assault (a really awesome maneuver, btw).
    I prefer Punishing Stance, but primarily because I'm usually forced to go one-on-one with stuff that really should be Save-or-lose'd to oblivion. My party doesn't get 'tactics'.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    So many good choices! Arghhh. Leading the Charge is out, considering our group composition.
    Last edited by ColdSepp; 2008-09-05 at 06:30 PM.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    It also works on you.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Yea, I'd go Warblade1/Fighter2/WarbladeX. Dungeoncrasher is a lot of fun to play with, so is Knockback. I'd avoid Combat Reflexes and the desire to pick up Thicket of Blades unless you really want to go all out on the AoO thing, which in my opinion isn't so much fun. More likely, it'll get you smote down by your DM, IC, IRL, or both.

    For many of the undeaders around, you are gonna wanna grab the warblade maneuver Moment of Perfect Mind, or whatever its called. Your will save is gonna suck, and this keeps you from being a liability. If you have to use it, refresh asap, because a lot of the saves you'll be making are from at-will powers like Magic Jar and Dominate Person. Fort saves you'll be able to handle without too much trouble though, thanks to Fighter and Warblade both having strong fort saves and CON being a priority for any fighty type. Reflex saves are almost non-existant among undead, and the ones that do have em aren't as life threatening as say....a bodak's fort save. So, take the will save maneuver and save the rest of your maneuvers for combat.

    Oh, and a trick for really powerful knockbacks. Knockback receives bonuses based on the PA penalty you take to hit. Most corporial undead (the kind you'll be knockin) have low touch ACs, so wind up a full PA and strike with Emerald Razor. This is particularly fun against large foes, since their touch ACs are lower and their Strs are higher.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Feats: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback, Adaptive Style, Martial Study

    Stances: Punishing Stance, Absolute Steel

    Maneuvers: Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Foehammer, Action Before Thought, Emerald Razor, Iron Heart Surge


    Thanks for all the help, now I shall pick his items and be ready to play!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    I'd drop Adaptive Style, but that's just me. There's better out there.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    If you take Improved Bull Rush, you may as well pick up Shock Trooper on 6. Gives you the sweet Domino Bull Rush and other cool stuff (like Heedless Charge when you really need to hit things). Oh yeah, consider going Fighter 6 at some point for the full Dungeon Crasher, Resolute off level 4 (alternative class feature - allows you to give up half your BAB as an immediate action and add it to Will-saves; great if you expect more Will-saves than you can reasonably Moment) and possibly the Zhentarim Fighter Sub Levels from Champions of Valor Web Enhancement to make the levels inbetween not-entirely-wasted. Admittedly, this would push you even further to the "Fighter/Warblade" build, but Dungeon Crasher is pretty sweet.

    Also, these abilities would give you something efficient to do when recovering maneuvers - Warblades tend to be pretty bored when they do it, but having the ability to do Heedless Charge or some Domino Bull Rushing while at it adds a bunch of efficiency to your recoveries (you can full attack and recover). Oh yeah, consider Combat Expertise > Improved Trip; Shock Trooper allows you to Trip opponents you Bull Rush together. With Knockback, you can do nasty stuff (like effectively Bull Rush them to the ground activating Dungeon Crasher with Knockback).
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    This CharOp Diary is a worthwhile read if you're seriously considering the Dungeoncrasher Fighter/Warblade. (Heck, they're even using a Goliath here too!)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Warblade Feat Help

    Alright.... I switched Adaptive Style for Martial Study, and took Shock Trooper at L6.

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