A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Default Maula Kae [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Maula Kae
    The breaking of joints and crushing of bones are the hallmarks of the Maula Kae, the wrestling style of the goliaths. For many years, the goliaths had no need to name it, but, when others began to learn it, those races insisted that the style and its attacks needed names and those below are what has evolved to fill that need.

    Its students have learned that many so-called warriors become frightened children when relieved of their weapons or shown just how many weaknesses their bodies possess. Though weapons have their uses, most Maula Kae practitioners forgo them in favor of the more primitive and brutal combat to be found in a grapple.

    Escape Artist is the discipline skill for Maula Kae, for even the most powerful warriors prepare to meet one with greater skill. The unarmed strike, claw, scorpion claws, mancatcher and grapple are discipline weapons for Maula Kae.
    Note: A swordsage who adds Maula Kae to the list of disciplines he can learn maneuvers from removes Desert Wind from that list.

    1st Level
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    Bruising Grip
    Maula Kae (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn
    Your vice-like grip leaves your opponents black and blue.
    For the rest of your turn, your grapple checks using the Damage Your Opponent option do an extra 1d6 points of damage +1 point per initiator level

    Confounding Strike
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    You strike from an odd angle, leaving your opponent unsure what you'll do next.
    As part of this maneuver, you make a single melee attack against an opponent. If your attack hits, you deal normal melee damage and the opponent is unable to make attacks of opportunity against you until the end of your next turn. It can make attacks of opportunities against other characters as normal.

    Intimidating Presence
    Maula Kae (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance
    You flex your muscles and make it clear that you are a threat to any who come within your reach.
    While you are in this stance, you can make a grapple check any time you would make an Intimidate check.

    Quick Escape
    Maula Kae (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn
    In a flash, you release yourself from the bindings or opponent that restrain you.
    You make an escape artist check as a swift action. If escaping a grapple or bindings, the relevant opponent makes an opposed grapple or use rope check respectively as normal.


    2nd Level
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    Weakening Strike
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 2
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    You leave a visible dent in your opponent's flesh, rendering one of his limbs less able to fight you.
    As part of this maneuver, you make a single melee attack against an opponent. In addition to dealing normal melee damage with the attack, you deal 2 points of Strength damage.

    Wrist Lock
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 2
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    You apply pressure to your opponent's wrist, often wrenching his hand open and forcing him to drop whatever he holds.
    As part of this maneuver, you must succeed on a melee touch attack against your foe. Resolve the lock as a grapple attempt, but you do not provoke attacks of opportunity. You can use your Dexterity in place of your Strength modifier in the grapple check, whichever is higher. You gain a +4 bonus on the grapple check. If you are already grappling, you do not need to make a new touch attack, you simply use the Damage Your Opponent option with the above conditions as a standard action.
    If you win the grapple check, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you disarm your opponent of a light or one-handed weapon he is wielding. He retains hold of any two handed weapon he is wielding but takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls with it until he escapes the grapple or returns his hand to the weapon by winning an opposed grapple check.


    3rd Level
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    Elbow Lock
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 3
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    You bend your opponent's arm behind him and torque the elbow, causing pain which only increases as he struggles to break free.
    This maneuver functions like Wrist Lock (2nd level strike) except as noted here.
    If you win the grapple check, you deal an additional 3d6 damage and are considered to be pinning the targeted opponent. Additionally, that opponent takes d6 damage on each unsuccessful attempt to break the pin.

    Walk the Weapon
    Maula Kae (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 3
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You travel along the path of your opponent's weapon, using his own arm as cover to close for your attack.
    You instantly appear in a square adjacent to a creature that attacks you with a melee attack, after resolving the enemy's attack. You cannot move into a space that is occupied by a creature or object. You can move up to 50 feet in this manner. If you cannot move adjacent to the target, this maneuver fails to function but is still considered used.
    This maneuver is a supernatural ability.


    4th Level
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    Crushing Grip
    Maula Kae (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn
    The blood of your opponent rings in your ears, then falls silent as you arrest its flow.
    Your grip tightens and you feel your opponent's pulse slowing as you crush the artery against the bone. For the rest of your turn, your grapple checks using the Damage Your Opponent option do an extra 2d6 points of damage +1 point per initiator level.

    Flying Fists
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 full round action
    Range: 20 feet
    Target: One or more creatures within range
    Catching opponents off guard, you strike at those who think they are at a safe distance.
    As part of this maneuver, you make all of your unarmed strike and natural weapon attacks as if their natural reach were increased by 5 feet and can not make attacks with manufactured weapons. Your unarmed strikes and natural weapons count as one-handed weapons rather than light weapons for the purpose of disarm attempts. This maneuver is a supernatural effect.

    Lean Into It
    Maula Kae (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 4
    Prerequisite: 1 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You roll your shoulder to accept the incomng blow as it lands, grabbing your opponent as his body follows his weapon
    Immediately before an opponent strikes you in melee, you may take a -4 penalty to your armor class. The first time you are struck by an opponent within your natural reach after taking this penalty, you may make a grapple attempt against that opponent as an immediate action. The armor class penalty lasts until your next turn.


    5th Level
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    Adaptive Attack
    Maula Kae (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 5
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    With quick reflexes, you correct a flaw in your attack before it fails.
    Reroll any one attack roll or grapple, trip or disarm attempt with a +3 bonus.

    Shield of Muscle
    Maula Kae (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 5
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance
    You have trained your body to redirect rather than avoid attacks made against you.
    While you are in this stance, you may add half your Constitution modifier to your armor class in place of your Dexterity modifier, up to the Maximum Dexterity Bonus of the armor you are wearing. Additionally, entering a grapple now reduces your dexterity bonus to AC to +1 against opponents you are not grappling, rather than denying you it, as long as your Dexterity or Constitution modifier is positive.

    Shoulder Lock
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 5
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    You pull your opponent's arm behind his back and turn until you hear a loud snap.
    This maneuver functions like Wrist Lock (2nd level strike) except as noted here.
    If you win the grapple check, you deal an additional 3d6 damage and limits your opponent's ability to use that arm. For 1d3 rounds he takes a -3 penalty on attack rolls with a one handed or light weapon held in that hand and a -2 penalty on attack rolls made with a weapon held in both hands. A fortitude save (DC 14 + your STR modifier) negates the penalty, but not the extra damage. For each 5 you beat the opposed grapple check by, the DC increases by 2.


    6th Level
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    Disciplined Force
    Maula Kae (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 6
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn
    You study your opponent and determine where best to strike.
    Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your initiator level if it is higher (which may give you additional attacks). Addtionally, the DC for the save of any strike you use this round is increased by 3.

    Full Nelson
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 6
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    Your arms reach beneath your opponents' and yank them back when you apply pressure to it's spine.
    This maneuver functions like Wrist Lock except as noted here.
    If you win the grapple check, you deal an additional 2d6 damage and your opponent must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 16 + your STR modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. For each 5 you beat the opposed grapple check by, the DC increases by 2.

    Strong Arm Defense
    Maula Kae (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 6
    Prerequisite: 2 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee Attack
    Target: One creature
    You knock away an attacking weapon, destabilizing your opponent.
    If your opponent attacks you on his turn, you can replace your AC with the result of a grapple check as an immediate action. You must decide whether to initiate this maneuver before you know the result of your opponent’s attack (but after the attack is declared). Your grapple check applies to only one attack. You must be aware of the attack to which you will apply the effect of this maneuver and not flat-footed.If using this maneuver causes your opponent to miss, he can not make more attacks with that weapon against you this turn.


    7th Level
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    Avalanche of Blows
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 7
    Prerequisite: 3 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full round action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    With a piercing whoop, you launch yourself at an enemy and deliver a lightning fast barrage of blows.
    As part of initiating this maneuver, you make a charge attack. Instead of making a single attack at the end of your charge, you can make a three attacks at your full base attack bonus. You do not gain the standard bonus on your attack rolls for making a charge attack, but still take the penalty to your Armor Class.

    Pulverizing Grip
    Maula Kae (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 7
    Prerequisite: 3 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of turn
    Your opponent shudders in pain as nerves he did not even know he possessed cry out in protest under your expert pressure.
    Each blow sends waves of pain through your opponent's body. For the rest of your turn, your grapple checks using the Damage Your Opponent option do an extra 3d6 points of damage +1 point per initiator level


    8th Level
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    Choke Hold
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 8
    Prerequisite: 3 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    Your arm slides around your opponent's neck and crushes the flow of air to its brain until he collapses.
    This maneuver functions like Wrist Lock (2nd level strike) except as noted here.
    If you win the grapple check, your opponent is pinned and helpless until the end of your next turn. A Fortitude save (DC 18 + your STR modifier) negates the helplessness but not the pin. For each 5 you beat the opposed grapple check by, the DC increases by 2. On its turn, the opponent gets another saving throw.

    Human Shield
    Maula Kae (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 8
    Prerequisite: 3 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: One creature
    Seeing a weapon move towards you, you instinctively throw an opponent in its path.
    When an enemy attacks you on its turn, you can attempt to make him strike the opponent you are grappling instead. Make an opposed grapple check against an opponent you are grappling at a -4 penalty. Your opponent gets a bonus on the grapple check equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon being used to attack you. If you win the check, resolve the attack against the opponent you are grappling. If you lose the check, you are attacked as normal.

    Touch the Untouchable
    Maula Kae (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 8
    Prerequisite: 3 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance
    You feel your way through the tendrils of magic energy that lesser grapplers find impossible to penetrate.
    While you are in this stance, you can partially bypass the effects of a freedom of movement spell. Rather than causing all grapple checks made by the affected person to avoid or escape a grapple to automatically succeed, they instead get a +10 bonus on those checks. This stance is a supernatural effect.


    9th Level
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    Remove the Head
    Maula Kae (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 9
    Prerequisite: 4 Maula Kae maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Full round action
    Target: One creature
    ...and the body will die. With a sickening snap, you demonstrate this simple truth to your opponent.
    This maneuver functions like Wrist Lock (2nd level strike) except as noted here.
    If you win the grapple check, your opponent must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 19 + your STR modifier) or die. For each 5 you beat the opposed grapple check by, the DC increases by 2. On a successful save, you deal your normal Damage Your Opponent damage as well as an additional 20d6 damage.


    Feats
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    Goliath Wrestling
    Your training in the Maula Kae discipline has taught you that raw power is useless if not applied correctly.
    Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, one Maula Kae stance
    Benefit: While you are in a Maula Kae stance, you can add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus on all grapple checks to a maximum of 1 + your swordsage class level plus levels in classes that advance your maneuvers known. You may add the same bonus to escape artist checks made to escape a grapple.
    Special: Goliath Wrestling can be used in place of Clever Wrestling to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. If the substitution gives you a new option to use while grappling, that option is only available to you while you are in a Maula Kae stance.

    Grasp the Situation
    The knowledge of the Maula Kae discipline gives you unparalleled control over grapples you enter, even allowing you to respond to those who would seek to interrupt it.
    Prerequisites: One Maula Kae maneuver
    Benefit: As long as you have moved less than 10 feet since the end of your last turn, you gain a +1 insight bonus to your AC against adjacent opponents you are not grappling while you are in a grapple.

    Primal Instincts [Tactical]
    Prerequisites: Goliath Wrestling, BAB +6, two Maula KaeBenefit: The feat allows the use of three tactical options
    Flight response To use this maneuver, you must have taken damage from an opponent you are grappling. During the next round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to rolls made to resist or escape a grapple. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on grapple avoidance and escape rolls apply until your next turn.
    Spurn metal To use this maneuver, an opponent must attack you with a manufactured weapon while you are grappling him and miss. If he does, you may immediately make a grapple check to knock the weapon from his hand. If you win the grapple check, he loses his next iterative attack. If you win by more than 5, he drops the weapon as if you had disarmed him. Using this maneuver consumes one of your attacks of opportunity in the current round.
    Wounded Prey To use this maneuver, you must pin an opponent and prevent his escape for one round. During the next round, you get a +1 bonus on grapple checks and damage rolls made as part of the Damage Your Opponent option and an additional +1 for each successful use of that option.
    Last edited by playswithfire; 2010-06-26 at 08:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    24 hours, 49 looks, 0 comments

    Fair enough; I withdraw the request that criticisms come with suggestions for improvement; just tell me what you don't like about it. Or tell me it looks ok, if it does.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by playswithfire View Post
    24 hours, 49 looks, 0 comments

    Fair enough; I withdraw the request that criticisms come with suggestions for improvement; just tell me what you don't like about it. Or tell me it looks ok, if it does.
    It happens, but I'm incredibly rusty on my Tome of Battle and maneuvers.

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    A maneuver named "Destroy the head and the body will die" seems like a necessity for this discipline. Perhaps you could rename Neck Snap?

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    Neck Snap is now Remove the Head

    A couple specific questions I'm mainly curious about:
    1. Is the mechanic for the lock/joint maneuvers (Wrist Lock, Elbow Lock, Shoulder Lock, Full Nelson, Choke Hold and Remove the Head) a reasonable one
    As part of this maneuver, you must succeed on a melee touch attack against your foe. Resolve the lock as a grapple attempt, but you do not provoke attacks of opportunity. You can use your Dexterity in place of your Strength modifier in the grapple check, whichever is higher. You gain a +4 bonus on the grapple check. If you are already grappling, you do not need to make a new touch attack, you simply use the Damage Your Opponent option with the above conditions as a standard action.
    It's based off of the throw maneuvers from Setting Sun, as I wanted this class to synergize well with that one. I may throw together a Setting Sun/Monkey Paw prestige class if this discipline is deemed reasonable.

    1.5 Is it clear that at the end of the maneuvers using that mechanic, you are grappling? You don't just execute the maneuver and then let go; you have entered a grapple if you weren't in one already.

    2. Are the feats, particularly Monkey Wrestling, reasonable? I capped Monkey wrestling at 1 + swordsage class level + initiator prestige class levels because I wanted it to be useful to swordsages but less so to a druid who dipped into swordsage to enhance his Wildshaped grapples. As it stands now, a druid who dips in for 2 levels (just enough for WIS to AC) will basically make up for being 3/4 BAB instead of full BAB (+3 from monkey wrestling and +1 for weapon focus(grapple) assuming they choose Monkey Paw for discipline focus(Weapon Focus)
    Last edited by playswithfire; 2008-09-10 at 12:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    I take it from the continued silence that nothing I've proposed is particularly broken?
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    Taken by itself, no. I really like the idea for this discipline. It's well thought out, well handled, and makes a decent progression for real-life techniques. Good job! I think that the nature of D&D will make this discipline a seldom-used concept, but it is nonetheless a good addition to a swordsage's repertoire.

    If I could give you any advice, it might be to add in a counter somewhere in this discipline that allows you to take a -4 to AC or something similar, and if your opponent hits you with a melee attack, you may begin a grapple attempt as an immediate action. Just a thought.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph View Post
    Taken by itself, no. I really like the idea for this discipline. It's well thought out, well handled, and makes a decent progression for real-life techniques. Good job!
    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph View Post
    I think that the nature of D&D will make this discipline a seldom-used concept, but it is nonetheless a good addition to a swordsage's repertoire.
    True enough; grappling's rarely going to be a viable option past a certain point, but it's fun to have the opton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighth_Seraph View Post
    If I could give you any advice, it might be to add in a counter somewhere in this discipline that allows you to take a -4 to AC or something similar, and if your opponent hits you with a melee attack, you may begin a grapple attempt as an immediate action. Just a thought.
    I like it; added as a fourth level counter.
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    Default Maula Gath; Maula Kae prestige class

    Maula Gath Hit Die: d10
    {table=head]Lvl|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Known|Readied|Stances

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Leverage|1|0|0

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Nameless form (stance)|0|0|1

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Take on all Comers|1|1|0

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Nameless form (strike)|0|0|1

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Instinct|1|0|0
    [/table]
    Skills: (4+Int Modifier) Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Martial Lore, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Tumble

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Skills: Escape Artist 4 ranks, Martial Lore 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks.
    Feats: Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Skill Focus(Escape Artist)
    Martial Maneuvers: Must know one 2nd-level Maula Kae or Setting Sun maneuver, one Maula Kae maneuver of any level and one Setting Sun maneuver of any level.
    Special: Must be a goliath, be of the Giant type, or trained by another Maula Gath

    CLASS FEATURES

    Fluff coming soon

    Maneuvers: At 1st, 3rd and 5th level, you gain a new maneuver known from the Maula Kae or Setting Sun disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it. You add your full Empty Hand Master levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known. A third level, you gain an additional maneuver readied per day.

    Stances Known: At 2nd and 4th level, you learn a new martial stance from the Maula Kae or Setting Sun disciplines. You must meet a stance's prerequisite to learn it.

    Leverage (Ex): At first level, a Maula Gath learns that the placement of force is more important than the force itself. You gain Goliath Wrestling as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites. If you already have the Goliath Wrestling feat, you add half the bonus that feat adds to your grapple checks to Strength checks you make to trip an opponent or avoid being tripped while in a Maula Kae stance.

    Nameless Form (Ex): As a Maula Gath, you learn to look beyond the artificial concept of maneuvers used by other martial adepts. Your attacks and stances defy description and adapt to the needs of the current fight.

    Stance: At second level, you gain all bonuses you receive from being in a Maula Kae or Setting Sun stance when you are in a stance from either discipline. For example, you gain the benefit of Monkey Wrestling while in a Setting Sun stance. If you gain the same benefit from both disciplines' stances, such as having Discipline Focus(defensive stance) for both Maula Kae and Setting Sun disciplines, you do not gain the benefit twice. Additionally, once per round, you may switch from a Maula Kae stance to a Setting Sun stance or vice versa as a free action

    Strike: At fourth level, as a full round action, you may attempt to trip an opponent, either with a standard trip attack or a Setting Sun throw maneuver and, if the trip succeeds and the targeted opponent lands within your melee range, you may initiate a Maula Kae strike with an initiation action of one standard action against the same opponent. When using this option, you do not gain the extra attack granted by the Improved Trip feat.

    Take on all Comers (Ex): At third level, your training has shown you that the bigger they are, the harder they fall. You no longer automatically fail when you attempt to trip or grapple opponents two size categories larger than you. You gain an additional +2 bonus when grappling or tripping an opponent two size categories larger than you.

    Instinct (Ex): You add half your wisdom modifier to your melee attack and damage rolls except those made to disarm your opponents, to which you add your full Wisdom modifier. This does not stack with the No Thought ability of the Shiba Protector
    Last edited by playswithfire; 2010-05-08 at 08:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    One typo I see. In the 9th level "Remove the Head" "3 Monkey Paw maneuver" should be "3 Monkey Paw maneuvers".

    Also, often when people add in a new discipline for a pre-existing class they make it so that the PC needs to have it replace an already existing discipline on their list. Not something that is mechanically necessary, but may be worth thinking about.

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    One typo I see. In the 9th level "Remove the Head" "3 Monkey Paw maneuver" should be "3 Monkey Paw maneuvers".
    Nice catch; it's also supposed to be 4 maneuvers to learn Remove the Head so I fixed that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    Also, often when people add in a new discipline for a pre-existing class they make it so that the PC needs to have it replace an already existing discipline on their list. Not something that is mechanically necessary, but may be worth thinking about.
    Makes a certain amount of sense; I was just unaware of that. Probably drop Desert Wind in this case.

    Any thoughts on the prestige class?
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    I haven't read over the discipline's maneuvers as I don't have the time right now--I plan to do so later. However, looking at the PrC, I'm struck by how it basically has no cost to get in. Any practitioner of the Monkey Paw discipline as you've flavored it is going to have those feats, skills, and maneuvers. I think you should add in a pre-req that is actually a sacrifice to get into the class--perhaps Weapon Focus (Grapple)--something that isn't an obvious choice for anyone who wants to get into the class.

    Also, I'm unclear on what Flowing Form (Follow Through) is supposed to be able to do. An example would be helpful, I think.

    Other than that, I like the class. Flowing Form (Hands and Feet) is a really cool, flavorful, and useful ability. Instinct is also a good capstone (you forgot a period at the end of it though).

    I'll take a closer look at the actual school later.

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Weapon Focus(Grapple) wouldn't be a sacrifice either, since you'd get it as part of discipline focus(Weapon Focus), but I take your point. I'll try to come up with something.

    As for follow through, basically, instead of a full attack action, you execute one of the Setting Sun throw maneuvers, let's say mighty throw and choose to throw your opponent only 5 feet or otherwise land him where you can still reach him. Improved trip would give you an extra attack against that opponent at that point. Instead of doing that, you spend a swift action and the move action you'd have left over to execute a monkey paw strike, say shoulder lock.

    So you make two strikes in the same round, spending a swift action and giving up an extra attack granted by a feat to do so.

    Fluff-wise, in the example above, I'd be throwing you to the ground, holding on to your arm and wrenching it at the shoulder.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Ok, have now had time to look at the PrC in more detail.

    I share the concern that the PrC is all good with no bad. Here are two possible ways of dealing with that that haven't been suggested:

    1. First possibility remove getting a new maneuver readied at 3rd.

    2. Add as a requirement a few ranks in Jump or Tumble which fit with the idea of an Empty Hand Master but aren't directly useful to either the Monkey Paw or Setting Sun disciplines. Say "3 ranks in either Jump or Tumble" would probably do it.

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    What if it was:
    Skills: Martial Lore 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks
    Feats: Improved Trip, Improved Grapple, Skill Focus(Escape Artist)
    ?
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    That would probably be all right. The skill focus isn't a good use of a feat, but not so useless that it's a complete throw away (grappling comes to mind immediately). Don't be afraid to keep a requirement for some escape artist ranks, too.

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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Updated requirements:
    Skills: Escape Artist 4 ranks, Martial Lore 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks.
    Feats: Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Skill Focus(Escape Artist)

    I will hopefully be getting a character using this discipline and prestige class into a game soon so I can test it out.

    Comments still greatly appreciated
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Gorilla's Grasp: It's not a major deal for medium sized characters, but for the larger ones that are most likely to focus on grappling, doubling your reach might be too strong, you might give a +5' reach or something instead.

    Shield of Muscle: This would negate the biggest need for a second stat that this class has. Being able to send your strength to the stratosphere and be up hittable as a result? I don't have ToB handy but this seems too powerful for a fifth level stance. Does STR increase the character's touch AC? It's a huge change, you might wish to ask more people, but my gut says this is too good.
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    Default Re: Monkey Paw [3.5, Discipline; PEACH; now with PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyace View Post
    Gorilla's Grasp: It's not a major deal for medium sized characters, but for the larger ones that are most likely to focus on grappling, doubling your reach might be too strong, you might give a +5' reach or something instead.
    I remember going back and forth on that one before putting it as doubling since most PCs are medium sized, but adding 5 is probably the right way to do it, since that still doubles it for mediums while not giving the larger folk ridiculous reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyace View Post
    Shield of Muscle: This would negate the biggest need for a second stat that this class has. Being able to send your strength to the stratosphere and be up hittable as a result? I don't have ToB handy but this seems too powerful for a fifth level stance. Does STR increase the character's touch AC? It's a huge change, you might wish to ask more people, but my gut says this is too good.
    I was thinking of the deepwarden's second level ability which is also attainable by level 9 when I wrote that one (which was also why I explicitly capped it at the armor's maximum dex bonus, but I do see how it makes the class more single-attribute dependent. I was expecting to get some reactions to this one, but I figured I'd go for power and then scale back rather than have to think of ways to improve it. Three ways to scale it back occur to me, if consensus is that it needs nerfing:
    1. Make it half your STR bonus
    2. Make it a natural armor bonus equal to half your STR bonus that doesn't stack with any existing natural armor.
    3. Make it the deepwarden ability, CON as DEX bonus instead of STR as DEX bonus
    Any of those sound better?

    Thanks for the feedback.
    Last edited by playswithfire; 2008-09-17 at 02:31 PM.
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