3.5 chainsaw help

[Kayoden Usoden]

I have a small problem... what would the damage and the crit be for a 3.5 ed. medium sized chainsaw?

[Tengu_temp]

D20 Modern lists chainsaw as an exotic two-handed weapon, 3d6/20.

[Spiryt]

Damage would be probably quite good, as well as critic, with some massive minuses to hit though.

And probably with some Strenght/PowerAtack restrictions, as it couldn't be really used to properly "strike" opponent.

[TheOOB]

Honestly, you could do more damage more reliably to someone with a longsword then a chainsaw. Chainsaws are not good for combat, they are awkward as heck to use in combat, making it more likely to leave a non-fatal wound(albiet painful) then a fatal one, and they have this annoying tenancy to get caught on a bone and deflect off in a random direction which is incredibly dangerous to the wielder.

I would most likely stat them as a decent damage weapon (1d6 maybe) but give them a really good crit (19-20 x4 maybe) and of course exotic.

[Thane of Fife]

Chainsaws are not good for combat, they are awkward as heck to use in combat, making it more likely to leave a non-fatal wound(albiet painful) then a fatal one, and they have this annoying tenancy to get caught on a bone and deflect off in a random direction which is incredibly dangerous to the wielder.

Purely out of curiosity, how do you know this?

[Spiryt]

Honestly, you could do more damage more reliably to someone with a longsword then a chainsaw. Chainsaws are not good for combat, they are awkward as heck to use in combat, making it more likely to leave a non-fatal wound(albiet painful) then a fatal one, and they have this annoying tenancy to get caught on a bone and deflect off in a random direction which is incredibly dangerous to the wielder.

Can I ask where this experience comes from?

*backs away slowly *

And anyway, dunno about the bone, but certainly hiting any metal armor with it could end gory (chain snap - probably right into wielder face ).

But theory about bone sounds plausible too. Chainsaw is for slow actions like sawing things, not for quick like strikes.

[Jack Zander]

Yeah, chainsaws are aweful for combat. I would definitely give them a x4 crit multiplier, since if you are able to get a good strike in (or if you coup de grace) it should be almost instantly fatal. However, in normal combat they are going to be unwieldy (-2 attack) and deal little damage (1d6 or 1d8). I like the restriction on power attack too. You aren't striking your opponent so much as simply trying to touch them with it. Maybe making it finesse-able would help represent that.

[Ascension]

I'd count it as an improvised weapon rather than exotic.

Unless it's a specifically designed chainsword, in which case it would be exotic and have much better stats... but if you're just looking to kill people with chainswords you're probably playing Dark Heresy instead of D&D...

EDIT: Oh, and this needs to be posted.

[kjones]

EDIT: Oh, and this needs to be posted.

That was fantastic.

Spycraft D20 gave them a very high error range (1-3 on a d20) - you should have some way to reflect the fact that they are very, very dangerous to the wielder if used improperly (such as, say, in combat).

[Spiryt]

Maybe making it finesse-able would help represent that.

On the other hand, finesseability in 3.5 seems to be mainly concerned about lightness and convenience, even when it doesn't make sense.

[TheOOB]

Can I ask where this experience comes from?

*backs away slowly *

Heh heh, no personal experience in chainsaw combat, but I do know a little about swordfighting(enough to know how important weapon balance is) and I do know what happens when you use a chainsaw against something that isn't evenly dense all the way through(it deflects), also read some police reports and/or stories of chainsaw homocides, they are messy dangerous affairs.

[Stormageddon]

Honestly, you could do more damage more reliably to someone with a longsword then a chainsaw. Chainsaws are not good for combat, they are awkward as heck to use in combat, making it more likely to leave a non-fatal wound(albiet painful) then a fatal one, and they have this annoying tenancy to get caught on a bone and deflect off in a random direction which is incredibly dangerous to the wielder.

I would most likely stat them as a decent damage weapon (1d6 maybe) but give them a really good crit (19-20 x4 maybe) and of course exotic.

Haven't ever seen army of darkness.

[Gorbash]

EDIT: Oh, and this needs to be posted.

Well, judging by this video, it seems that chainsaws are unable to deliver any damage except to clothing, so I'd say 0 damage (except when used as coup de grace) and +4 on sunder attempts.

[Ascension]

Well, judging by this video, it seems that chainsaws are unable to deliver any damage except to clothing, so I'd say 0 damage (except when used as coup de grace) and +4 on sunder attempts.

Right. You can even draw a lot of blood with a chainsaw, but if you want to kill anyone, you have to shoot them.

[Burrito]

Well, have and use a chainsaw, so I will give some advice.

It is totaly unusable as a regular mele weapon. It could only be for an improvised, spur of the moment thing. The reach isn't that good, but the damage would be very good when you hit. There would be a lot of blood, because the wounds would be very ragged and torn. And once it hits something soft like that, the chain will "Catch" on it more, and actually want to dig in deeper. I would give it big negatives to hit, but a very high crit range, and have the chainsawee make a grapple save or be automaticaly hit again for damage. It would be real easy to take off limbs and fingers with a chainsaw. I would also have it where any roll of 1 results in the wielder taking a full roll of damage to themselves, and a roll of 2 taking half damage.

A chainsaw would make a great weapon if it were to be designed as one, but it is weighted, balanced, and desinged to cut wood.

[Ascension]

A chainsaw would make a great weapon if it were to be designed as one, but it is weighted, balanced, and desinged to cut wood.

I'm not sure if I would agree with that. The weight of the engine is always going to throw off balance and I would think that the limited fuel supply and need to start the engine before wielding it as a weapon would also weigh against it. Maybe if you had an electric motor and a large backpack-mounted battery it might be a bit more practical...

[Edea]

Sorry to bring up a Final Fantasy game, but...y'know Ba'gamnan's staff? I would envision a battle chainsaw looking somewhat like that, or perhaps a more elliptical blade to emulate a chainsaw spear/sword.

[monty]

Chainsaw nunchucks. Enough said.

[Edea]

Now TWICE as likely to chop off his own head :D

[Person_Man]

How about this:

Chainsaw: 3d6 (20, *4): Exotic Weapon. If you roll a natural 20 and confirm the critical hit, your enemy must make a Fort Save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be Dazed for 1 round (Save negates). If you roll a natural 1, then you take damage as if you had hit yourself, and must make a Fort Save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be Dazed for 1 round (Save Negates).

[SCPRedMage]

Meh, I wouldn't bother with using chainsaws in combat unless they were rocket propelled.

[monty]

Spoiler

Show

I was going to post a witty comment, but I can't ruin that with words.
Crap, I just did.

[SCPRedMage]

I was going to post a witty comment, but I can't ruin that with words.
Crap, I just did.

I can only wish that I had come up with that...

[Superglucose]

I would most likely stat them as a decent damage weapon (1d6 maybe) but give them a really good crit (19-20 x4 maybe) and of course exotic.

High crit is fine, but I don't like the 19-20 multiplier. That represents ease of use.

Chainsaws SUCK as weapons. A) you don't just swing a chainsaw into a tree, you push... and wait. B) They get gummed up fast. Hell, many chainsaws jam up during normal usage... on trees. That don't throw gore that jams up the gears. also C) they aren't particuarly sharp.

Personally, those rules in D20 modern are bull**** for chain saws. It should be more like 1d4 slashing damage, crit x4 or x5. You can't do **** waving a chainsaw unless you manage to catch an artery or vein, in which case your opponent is going DOWN. FAST.

[Ascension]

The only way to really be sure is to get a bunch of folks with varying degrees of fighting skill and send them all out to try to kill a bunch of other folks with varying degrees of fighting skill with chainsaws. We compile the results and work out statistics.

...and that, my friends, is the problem with simulationist gaming. At least when it involves killing people.

[Seffbasilisk]

I'd volunteer to use a longsword if someone wants to use a chainsaw.

[Jack Zander]

The only way to really be sure is to get a bunch of folks with varying degrees of fighting skill and send them all out to try to kill a bunch of other folks with varying degrees of fighting skill with chainsaws. We compile the results and work out statistics.

...and that, my friends, is the problem with simulationist gaming. At least when it involves killing people.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see where the problem is.

[Edea]

Also: a mundane steel blade on the saw? Going to get worn down, gummed up, etc.

But what about an adamantine chainsaw, or perhaps a brilliant energy/laser chainsaw? Not going to gum up at all, or wear down, ever. Change the grip and the weight so you can swing it properly, and speed up the blades so they snap through tendons like they were made of butter.

A straight-up chainsaw obviously has problems, but inject some fantasy/magic into it, and it could be a fearsome combat weapon. Actually, try the Grinding enchantment from Magic Item Compendium (or whatever it's called).

Alas, bull**** or not, the D20 Modern rules Tengu referenced are probably amongst the closest to a RAW interpretation of chainsaws you're going to find in d20 IMO (I also find 3d6 a bit...overestimated, especially if it's a normal, mundane saw).

[Khanderas]

A chainsaw is a tool that is downright unsuitable for weaponry for several reasons.
First off it is extremly unwieldy. Hitting a moving target is both hard and slow, due to the weight of such a machine and the downright akwardness of that weight.
Second its damage don't quite come as a slash, such use of it would make a gash but it would not be deep and it would throw the victim, wielder, chainsaw or any combination of above, out of balance as the chain catches itself and try to pull or push or "jump" upwards (depending on what side of the rotation you hit). The chainsaws strength lies in that it "digs" itself in with little applied pressure on a still target.
Third the chain on a normal chainsaw dulls easily. One nail on a normal chainsaw can dull the whole chain, requiring filing it sharp again. Obviously metal armor, studs, blocked by a metal weapon and yes hitting the ground (rocks) all but ensures that in a melee the chainsaw will be dulled real fast.
Fouth it requires fuel. Normally oil (or other lubricant) mixed gasoline.
Fifth the chain will get clogged up FAST. On wood it saws off somewhat dry chips that then are tossed away by the chain. On flesh... Not So Much. I have helped my folks slaughter a pig or cow now and then, and I can guarantee you it is not the same.
Sixth it does not dig though armour the way you would think it would, much for the same reason that flesh gets stuck in the chain. Common protection when using a chainsaw is unusually thick pants where the idea is the fibers jam the saw if it mistakenly comes up on your legs. Yes that is right: Cloth (kinda, they are special chainsaw pants, normal jeans won't do) pants can stop a chainsaw as can a pair of rubber boots. Sure I am talking about accidental exposure to it but still.

So slow, hard to hit, inefficient and easily stopped/jammed... Frankly as an improvised weapon any club would do better. Bonus points for shockvalue though. Would work ok if the target is prone or helpless



If we were to go mad scientist here and develop a chainsaw weapon well that is another thing.
First of a complete redesign of the chain. Instead of the hook-slashing variety normal chainsaws have a more steamlined semi-circle blades instead. This would reduce the jerkiness when you actually hit with it since it would "slash" more then it would tear.
Since it slashes we could reduce the power of the engine by alot, making it easier to wield and especially much less clumsy.

[allonym]

Call of Cthulhu chainsaw:
Base chance 20%
Damage 2d8 (for reference, the heavier sword entry is 1d6+1+damage bonus)
Malfunction on a 97+

Impale result (a crit, basically) severs a random limb.