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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default I need help with a new melee class

    Hi everyone! I was wondering around, looking for a new exotic class and i found a customised class made by a fan name Mimic (the class, not the fan)

    What is it? its basicly a warrior with the natural ability to copy supernatural abilities from monsters. He has to concentrate to do this so he looses a couple of rounds and he canīt choose what he copies (if he is fighting a troll he could end up with fast healing or scent). He can have one ability per level and must be from a monster whose challenge rating is equal or lower to his level.
    If he wants, he can remove one of this abilities in order to try to get a better one. Once he learns an ability he can do it every time he wants (unless the ability is restricted, for example, if a tieflin can summon darkness 3 times a day, the mimic will be equally limitated)
    Now, the real problem with this class is that he is Peter Petrelli! He might not start too strong but you know he will end up being a super guy!
    If any of you have a way to make this class fit in the game, please, i would like to read (yeah, i canīt really listen to you) your ideas.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    I don't know, it doesn't actually seem THAT overpowered to me. On power per character level, means one ability gained per level....I'd say make it every other level or so, otherwise go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by varto View Post
    Hi everyone! I was wondering around, looking for a new exotic class and i found a customised class made by a fan name Mimic (the class, not the fan)

    What is it? its basicly a warrior with the natural ability to copy supernatural abilities from monsters. He has to concentrate to do this so he looses a couple of rounds and he canīt choose what he copies (if he is fighting a troll he could end up with fast healing or scent). He can have one ability per level and must be from a monster whose challenge rating is equal or lower to his level.
    If he wants, he can remove one of this abilities in order to try to get a better one. Once he learns an ability he can do it every time he wants (unless the ability is restricted, for example, if a tieflin can summon darkness 3 times a day, the mimic will be equally limitated)
    Now, the real problem with this class is that he is Peter Petrelli! He might not start too strong but you know he will end up being a super guy!
    If any of you have a way to make this class fit in the game, please, i would like to read (yeah, i canīt really listen to you) your ideas.
    GENERATION 18: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    I think the wording would have to be really careful on it. The powers should be from the "Special Attacks" or "Special Qualities" part of the monster listing, and nowhere else. No getting stuff from a template (i.e. he could steal a Ghoul's "Ghoul Fever" attack, but not its immunity to poison, etc., from being Undead).

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Well it sounds interesting. Is it a base class or a prestige class? It would help a lot if you could either post a link to the class or repost it here or at least post the relevant parts here. Not having a choice as to which abilities your character gets could be a pain. You could wind up with a lot of things that you don't want or don't like without getting anything you do want or like.

    Debby

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    This actually sounds like some things I've worked on before. I made a feat to copy class features from fellow party members. I've also created the Lancer, a class for my Final Fantasy X D20 that can copy class features. Lastly, one of the Limit Breaks for FFX D20 (intended to be used by the Lancer), allows one to copy certain limited monster abilities (Ronso Rage: 2 links: here & here; also, Blue Magic is rather similar).
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2008-09-12 at 12:14 PM. Reason: added link

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    streakster's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Please post the link. It will be a lot easier to help if we have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Ya know, Strife, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but streakster made one of the the best analogies of all time. Of all time.
    The perfect fighter fix.
    Hey, the magnificent Shades of gray made me the cool paladin! Give him a hand!
    From time to time, I vanish from the boards. Like Frosty, though, I'll be back again some day!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    To answer some of your questons, the author of this class remarked that being a mimic is something you are born with, you canīt become one later by multiclassing.
    As for the overpowering, if you think an allip, wich is CR 3 has incorporeal traits, wich gives them a 50% chance of avoiding an attack, they also have darkvision and udead traits. Give any of those to a lvl 3 or 4 player and he would be happy (except for the darkvision, it`s cool but not really something overpowering)
    One of the solutions i was given once was to limit the copied ability by time. (If you copy the trollīs regeneration, you can only have it for a few hours)
    but since monsters are usually inmune to their own power, having, say energy drain against an undead is not really that usefull unless you can use that against other enemies in the future.
    Zeta Kai, you are right, both classes have similarities, yet you solve the problem by setting WHAT can be copy from WHAT. I like that, it helps the DM to fight the chaos the mimic might create.
    iīll look for the hole class description when i get home and iīll post it here(right now iīm at work, shhh, donīt tell anyone)

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Prometheus's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    But of course, if you simply had the ability to keep special qualities and attacks you would probably be exposed to a lot of different ones relatively early on and you would simply have a character with some special abilities, but not anything that resembles a Mimic. My suggestion have them expire after a certain amount of time. Even a week would be long enough to stick with something but sort enough to give the impression of flavored abilities. It really all depends on the variety and the frequency of creatures a character comes across in game I guess.

    Whether or not you use that suggestion the important thing as a class is for the power to gradually progress. Maybe the character can only copy from creatures of a certain overall difficulty (CR, HD, etc) or with abilities that fall into certain categories, which would expand as the character progressions. Maybe the character can always copy abilities, but their strength is keyed to the character level (i.e, a low level character could pick up fast healing 1 from a troll, which a higher level character would receive better regeneration than a troll has). The character would also expand in the number of abilities (or duration of abilities). If the gains were erratic enough, that would create an interesting enough dynamic that expiring abilities wouldn't be necessary.
    Homebrew Magic Items you might enjoy:
    Coins Tokens of Fortune
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    Also, its time to think about Yeth Hounds in a whole new way

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Here is a link to download the class file. Itīs a pdf with all the information i have.
    http://www.filefactory.com/file/42eca7/n/TheMimic_pdf

    I like the idea of keeping the abilities for a week. that gives you time to use your powers on different creatures (creatures who hopefully are not immune to them)

    I see now what was bothering me about this class and itīs limitations... it simply doesnīt specifies enough and it leaves the DM a mayor headache.
    Still, i think that we can actually make this class playable without becoming the center of the action in every session.
    I think that with a time restriction and a list of available abilities the mimic can copy he would blend in with the rest of the party without any mayor problem.
    Of course, the subject is still open to discuss and now you have the same file with the class that i have.

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    streakster's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Hmm. Ok. Let's getta work!

    I don't see why it has Fast movement and track. Seems...odd. Like there was nothing else to add. So.

    Revised version of Lancet: Needs severe PEACHing, as I just threw it together, but the thought is there. Haven't really checked the rest of the class yet.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Study:
    (Broken up to fill more levels. Stuff added to fill blank levels.)

    By studying a monster within 30ft, you may learn one of its abilities. This monster must be one of 5 types that you select at creation. You may not change these types. You must spend one full round concentrating on the monster, and make a successful Concentration check against 15 plus the monster's HD. This ability must be one of the creature's special attacks or special qualities. All limitations that applied to the ability as the creature had it apply to the ability as the mimic has it, as well. The mimic cannot choose what ability it will get. A mimic may have one ability mimicked for every two mimic class levels - so 1 ability at first level, 2 at 3rd, and so on. The monster the ability is copied from must have a CR equal to or lesser than the mimic's level. Each ability copied in this manner lasts only one week. If you have as many abilities learned as you can, you must forget a copied ability before you can learn another. You may lose an ability as a swift action.

    At 2nd level, you may choose whether to copy a special attack, or a special quality. You may still not choose what you get.

    At 4th level, the mimic may choose to specialize in a type of monster. He loses one type of monster he knows (forever - he may not later regain this via generalization), and in exchange may choose another type to gain a +2 specialization bonus to Concentration checks to Study that type.

    If you choose not to specialize, you may generalize. Add one more monster type to the list that you may learn from.

    At 6th level, you may reroll a Concentration check made to study a monster once per day. You may use a second time per day as well, but only on a monster type you have specialized in.

    At 8th level, you may specialize or generalize yet again. If you specialize in a type you have previously specialized in, you may make a study attempt when attacked by a monster of that type with a special attack. You must have an open slot, and this still does not guarantee that it will copy the special attack used - though it can only copy a special attack. This may be done once per encounter.

    At 10th level, you may copy one of the monster's stat modifiers. This works as a normal study attempt, and requires an open slot. This, however, may only last 1 round per mimic level.

    At 12th level, you may once again generalize or specialize. If you specialize in a type you have specialized in once before, you gain the benefits as describe in the 8th level text. If you have specialized in this type twice before, you gain an additional +2 specialization bonus, which stacks.

    At 14th level, you may increase your Study Range to 60ft. Alternatively, you may receive a +1 bonus on all Study Concentration checks.

    At 16th level, you may generalize or specialize once more.If you specialize in a type you have specialized in once before, you gain the benefits as describe in the 8th level text. If you have specialized in this type twice before, you gain an additional +2 specialization bonus, which stacks. If you have specialized in this type thrice before, you gain Perfect Release. Any special attack copied from this type of monster may be designated a Perfect Release. All damage from this attack is maximized, and all save DC's for this attack are increased by 3. If this attack covers an area, it may be enlarged instead of maximized. Once it has been used as a Perfect Release, the attack is immediately forgotten.

    At 18th level, you may learn two abilities at once. You may not choose whether to receive special attacks or special qualities when you choose this option. You must, of course, have two free slots.

    At 20th level, you may choose Perfect Specialization, or Perfect Generalization. Perfect Specialization gives you one extra slot, which must be filled with an ability from the type you have specialized in the most. (If it is a tie, choose one when taking this level. This may never be changed.) This ability does not expire in one week, though you may need to make Concentration checks after a while to keep it. (Read: If you abuse this, the DM now has an excuse to make you lose it.)

    Perfect Generalization grants you all types known, save those you have lost for specialization. Also, it grants you 10-X additional ability slots, where X is the number of types you did not know before taking this ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Ya know, Strife, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but streakster made one of the the best analogies of all time. Of all time.
    The perfect fighter fix.
    Hey, the magnificent Shades of gray made me the cool paladin! Give him a hand!
    From time to time, I vanish from the boards. Like Frosty, though, I'll be back again some day!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Quote Originally Posted by streakster View Post
    Hmm. Ok. Let's getta work!

    I don't see why it has Fast movement and track. Seems...odd. Like there was nothing else to add. So.
    Might be based off the wildshaping ranger. They had both of those as class features.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Having read the class, I'm now convinced that it is intended to copy (or mimic, if you will) the ability of Blue Mages in Final Fantasy games. Specifically, I'm rather sure that this is a direct rip-off of Kimahri from FFX. Some of the other evidence is a bit circumstantial, but the fact that the power-copy feature is called Lancet clinches it.

    Overall, the Mimic class isn't bad, but it seems to be a one-trick pony, & it's one key feature isn't clearly defined enough for me to feel comfortable allowing a player to use it. I much prefer the Lancer class that I made, combined with the Blue Mage or Ronso Rage limit breaks; it has more options for the player, & the power-copy ability is explained more explicitly.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: I need help with a new melee class

    Agreed, i was analyzing this class not only as a player but also in a way a DM might feel comfortable to direct.

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