Changelings - Overpowered?

[Nero24200]

Hello all

In an upcomming campaign I was considering a gnome assassin-esc character, but due to fluff reasons I'm looking for another race. When I mentioned changeling, my DM insited they were broken.

While I think he's completely wrong here, I figure it was best to get some perspective on the subject first. Are changelings broken? Or is my DM greaty overestimating their power?

[Xenogears]

I don't think they are broken. Once they get to high levels the alter-self ability is all but useless as any caster can do better with no trouble at all. They are definately best when they have rogue levels so they can do awesome disguises and assassinate people. Useful at lower levels but not overpowered.

[Nero24200]

Actually, changelings to not gain Alter Self, they gain Disguise Self. It's purely an aethestetic change they get.

[Xenogears]

I knew what the ability did. Just forgot the name. Either way all they can do is make disguises.

[JeminiZero]

Put it this way, their primary ability can be largely replicated by a 1800 gp Hat of Disguise.

Of course disguise self isn't their only ability, they are the only 0 LA race other than humans that qualify for able learner (and hence chameleon). And their shapechanger subtype lets them go into warshaper by level 5.

[Flashlight]

Hm, per RAW, disguise self gives an unnamed bonus to disguise checks, the changeling ability gives circumstance bonus, so the two would stack, wouldn't they?

Changelings are not overpowered

[Jack_Simth]

Hello all

In an upcomming campaign I was considering a gnome assassin-esc character, but due to fluff reasons I'm looking for another race. When I mentioned changeling, my DM insited they were broken.

While I think he's completely wrong here, I figure it was best to get some perspective on the subject first. Are changelings broken? Or is my DM greaty overestimating their power?

They're rather strong if played to their strengths, at low-level.

That is, a Changeling-rogue-3 can pretty much take over a kingdom fairly readily, provided he's not opposed by anyone over about 5th level, and not opposed by anyone who's putting a lot of recourses into locating frauds. In a dungeon? Not so much.

If used with certain PrC's, they've got some nifties that are a bit on the strong side (a Changeling Fighter-3/Barbarian-1/Warshaper-5/Frenzied Berserker-X is a great melee brute). With regular classes? Not so much.

Basically, the Changling is a very specialized racial choice. When played to the racial specialization, it does very well at that specialization. But for the most part, that specialization doesn't overlap much with normal play. If your DM is intending a primarily social campaign, he's right. If he's doing Hack'n'Slash, Monty Haul, or isn't going to let it become a social campaign, the advantages of the Changling aren't all that advantageous.

[AstralFire]

The coolest thing about the changeling in a non-social game is letting your Mary Sue tendencies run wild and letting your eye and hair color shift with mood.

[Bayar]

Everybody will say changelings are broken because they can change their gender. That is why the DM will NEVER allow you to take ranks in profession (prostitute).

[AstralFire]

Everybody will say changelings are broken because they can change their gender. That is why the DM will NEVER allow you to take ranks in profession (prostitute).

They can change their sex. Gender is inherent to the mind. And gender issues seem to be popular to explore with the Changeling, I know of three or four including myself who have done it.

[DareTheRogue]

My favorite build for social games is:
Changling Rogue 2/Sorcerer 4/Cabinet Trickster 5/Mindspy 5/Unseen Seer 5

I read all of your minds all the time forever and ever.... oh and I'll play a few low lvl spells on the fly

[kme]

Don't forget that changelings cannot change their clothes(with change shape that is ). So their ability is not that easily abused.

[Beleriphon]

Lets not forget their signature ability is a massive +10 to disguise checks. Thats it, they still have to be effected by the usual penalties. Thus a male changeling disguised as a female elf is at a -4 to the check for being a different gender and race.

[RTGoodman]

Don't forget that changelings cannot change their clothes(with change shape that is ). So their ability is not that easily abused.

Of course, there's a very cheap magic item somewhere (reprinted in the MIC, as far as I remember) that is a set of clothing you can change at will. Swiftcloth or something like that, it's called.

Beleriphon is right about the penalties, though - a lot of people don't remember the various penalties associated with Disguise, as we learned once in an all-kobold campaign where we had to sneak into a town full of humans and gnomes.

EDIT@\/: Disguise self is actually only a 1st-level spell, and yet it's still in NO way overpowered. Even Warshaper has requirements that prevent early entry (BAB +5), and that's about all I can think of.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Yeah, I'm failing to see how changelings are overpowered, aside from early warshaper abuse or something. Their ability is, what, a third level spell? A sorceror or wizard can do the same thing, and tons of other stuff besides...

[AstralFire]

Yeah, I'm failing to see how changelings are overpowered, aside from early warshaper abuse or something. Their ability is, what, a third level spell? A sorceror or wizard can do the same thing, and tons of other stuff besides...

Not even, Alter Self is stronger in most ways.

The clothing is Glamerweave, from EbCS.

[RTGoodman]

Not even, Alter Self is stronger in most ways.

But changelings only get disguise self, not alter self. Big difference.

[Beleriphon]

But changelings only get disguise self, not alter self. Big difference.

They don't even get that, they get a racial abilities that uses the same limitations as the spell. With a circumstance bonus, so it doesn't even stack with a good number of other bonuses (bonii?).

[AstralFire]

But changelings only get disguise self, not alter self. Big difference.

...that was my point...

[Dode]

Broken?

Only Changeling I played with had a series of alternate identities so he could move around in different social circles. Then, during a city riot and he was assuming an identity unknown to the party, he deliberately walked into an ambush and got his ass kicked and kidnapped.

And since our party didn't even know anything was wrong, well...

[Chronos]

With a circumstance bonus, so it doesn't even stack with a good number of other bonuses (bonii?).

Circumstance bonuses stack with each other (contrary to the normal rule) as long as they come from different circumstances. So a changeling with a disguise kit (both circumstance bonuses) gets a +12, 10 from the racial ability and 2 from the masterwork tool.

The changeling ability is slightly superior to Disguise Self (whether from the spell or a Hat of Disguise), in that it's a physical change, not just visual. So if you make yourself look like a lizardfolk, your skin will still feel scaly when you shake someone's hand.

And if you want to use the Latin plural of "bonus", it's "boni". Latin never uses two 'i's for a plural. In words like "radii", the second 'i' is what makes it plural, and the first 'i' was in the singular form of the word in the first place.

[Worira]

Lets not forget their signature ability is a massive +10 to disguise checks. Thats it, they still have to be effected by the usual penalties. Thus a male changeling disguised as a female elf is at a -4 to the check for being a different gender and race.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[monty]

Isn't the plural "bona," since the neutral form is bonum?

Stupid etymology...

[hotel_papa]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Agreed. The ability specifically says it's a physical change, including anatomy and even the ability to procreate. The gender rule would not apply.

As for the race... still a stretch, but I would at least eliminate it if they took the Racial Emulation feat. If I was imposing it in the first place. Which I wouldn't. Because that would then mean that the Changling's famed and feared ability to look like anyone else is only really potent when they attempt to look like other changlings. Who then, in turn, could look like anyone else...wait, what?

HP

[monty]

So, rather than looking like a dwarf, they just have to look like a changeling who looks like a dwarf. Simple, isn't it?

[Frosty]

Changing genders has its dangers though. I bet Changelings don't like to get pregnant. If you're a changeling, would you want to be stuck in one form for 9 months or whatever their gestation period is?

[monty]

Better get some magical protection (a use for the BoEF!), or at least a "dwarven defender."

[Tingel]

Isn't the plural "bona," since the neutral form is bonum?

No, because bonus and bonum are two different words with two different meanings. The proper plural of bonus is boni (like Chronos said).

[RTGoodman]

No, because bonus and bonum are two different words with two different meanings. The proper plural of bonus is boni (like Chronos said).

Except we speak English, not Latin, so the proper (modern) plural is "bonuses."

Better get some magical protection (a use for the BoEF!), or at least a "dwarven defender."

*Rimshot* That's probably the best innuendo based on a D&D term I've ever heard.

[Draz74]

Changeling characters combined with the Warshaper PrC can be overpowered. (Racial features make the PrC easier to enter than it was intended to be.)