What WotC thinks of those who don't agree with 4E

[Xion_Anistu-san]

Just wanted to say I am completely disgusted by the latest cartoon on the Wizards.com site regarding people who don't like 4E. I refer to this:

Red Dragon Interview

Equating those of us who don't like 4E to trolls is quite a stretch. And then to see what happens to said troll, it just goes to show what they really think of people who don't agree with them. We, the same people who bought all their 3.0 and then 3.5 materials for years as the prices of their books went up and up as the content got less and less (i.e. less print and more color/ art). The millions of fans and players who faithfuly play the product they made that put food on their tables and houses over their heads. The first insult--4E-- was bad enough, but to come out with this ... that is too much for me. After seeing this, I would tend to agree with a T-shirt that appalled one of the staff from GenCon that said "4E killed Gary Gygax!"

I hope 4E tanks and Hasbro has to sell D&D off to someone else. The Hasbro financials don't lie; it's not doing well. Then they can sack everyone who was instrumental in pushing 4E (Bill Slavicseck, I'm looking at you!) and get back to fixing the issues with 3.5 and giving us good, solid and supported content once again.

Until then, I'm sticking with 3.5 and I will never buy a new D&D book as long as WotC owns it.

[AstralFire]

Ugh. Not this AGAIN.

From another board:

...That video 'insults' 4E players more than it does 3E, with the annoying sycophantic kobold, FFS. The 3E grognard shows up for about 15 seconds comparatively.

I personally thought it was somewhat amusing. WotC's actually making fun of themselves too, as the money-grubbing dragon that doesn't care for its fans. When you insult everyone all around, including yourself, it's rarely meant to mock so much as tell everyone involved to stop taking themselves so seriously and lighten up a bit. I like a company that can laugh at its own image.

I thought it was funny. Every party is portrayed negatively during that whole little skit. Lighten up guys. They had the trolls, the devotees, the company being fat and lazy... Come on... Really, do you need to be so up-tight and use this as just another excuse to get mad at the company?

And honestly, just because they insulted themselves in there, it doesn't make it any different, because they're just being juvenile.

Yes, it does. It removes malicious intent entirely, unless you're suggesting that the company as a whole is self-loathing and thus the video represents their views on everyone honestly. Whine about it not being funny, sure; it was hardly the height of humor. But don't start taking umbrage where none was intended.

TL;DR Summary: Don't take umbrage where none was intended, good grief.

[Starsinger]

Red Dragon Interview

Equating those of us who don't like 4E to trolls is quite a stretch. And then to see what happens to said troll, it just goes to show what they really think of people who don't agree with them. We, the same people who bought all their 3.0 and then 3.5 materials for years as the prices of their books went up and up as the content got less and less (i.e. less print and more color/ art). The millions of fans and players who faithfuly play the product they made that put food on their tables and houses over their heads. The first insult--4E-- was bad enough, but to come out with this ... that is too much for me. After seeing this, I would tend to agree with a T-shirt that appalled one of the staff from GenCon that said "4E killed Gary Gygax!"

I think you're being over sensitive. The Troll is saying things like "ZOMFG MONEY GRAB!" "GNO GNOMES IN 4E!!11" "Y U IS NEED MINIS" I'm fairly certain people with actual, intelligent reasons to dislike 4e are not included in the puntastic Troll comparison.

[Spiryt]

It looks that those guys are really getting infantile

Or (more probably) it's just marketing - make 4ed kids feel superior, and sell more.

Seriously, taking this serious isn't healthy. It's just video, and doesn't mean that they don't care about critique.

[AstralFire]

It looks that those guys are really getting infantile

Or (more probably) it's just marketing - make 4ed kids feel superior, and sell more.

I'm sure the 4E players feel SO superior being portrayed as sycophant kobolds. Hasbro/WotC must think they're the best things ever, showing themselves as a randomly defecating, greedy, lazy dragon.

*eyeroll*

I swear the way people react to publishers make me feel like I'm in the middle of a video game forum hearing the Micro$oft Xbots, Nintendrone, and Sony Failstation wars all over again.

[AmberVael]

You know, I don't think it is so much making fun of everyone equally so much as it is just kinda lame. That's the real problem with it- I can forgive someone insulting my most dear beliefs if they do it in a hilarious manner (even if it isn't really true- but it's even funnier when it is), but the entire video was just kinda "bleh" to me, so the parts that mocked my views just came off as insulting and nothing more, even if they WERE making a parody of everyone.
I'd feel insulted if I were ANYONE depicted in it. Moral is- if you do satire, make it funny.

[Eldritch_Ent]

J
I hope 4E tanks and Hasbro has to sell D&D off to someone else.

It's a cartoon making fun of everyone. I mean, come on. Do you honestly put yourself in with the troll? Namely, the group that is either A- Trying to purpousefully stir up flame wars and the like in a "CRY MORE" fashion, or B- Dismisses 4E over incredibly flimsy pretexts and rages about how they hate DnD and it should die?

If you're in group A, then GTFO. If you're in group B, congrats, they have you pegged squarely with that one. If you don't consider yourself in either group, then why are you taking it so personally?

In the end, I'll just agree with everyone else that this cartoon makes fun of everyone and you shouldn't take it seriously. I belong with the torched PC's myself. XP! XP! XP! XP! XP!

[its_all_ogre]

really if anyone actually feels massively offended by this how do you survive on the internet

[AstralFire]

I'd feel insulted if I were ANYONE depicted in it. Moral is- if you do satire, make it funny.

You're not, though. Or at least, I'd hope you're not.

Lambast it for being unfunny all you want, but there's simply no sense in taking offense when they're satirizing themselves at the same time. I didn't see myself as any of the groups in the video, possibly because I am not WotC, I have an open mind to 4E and I like 3E. Or maybe I was the kobold just for keeping an open mind. I've mocked myself worse than that, sure, I'll pretend to play sycophant in a satire.

I don't care! It's a flash cartoon with no malicious intent!

[Artanis]

Just wanted to say I am completely disgusted by the latest cartoon on the Wizards.com site regarding people who don't like 4E. I refer to this:

Red Dragon Interview

Equating those of us who don't like 4E to trolls is quite a stretch. And then to see what happens to said troll, it just goes to show what they really think of people who don't agree with them. We, the same people who bought all their 3.0 and then 3.5 materials for years as the prices of their books went up and up as the content got less and less (i.e. less print and more color/ art). The millions of fans and players who faithfuly play the product they made that put food on their tables and houses over their heads. The first insult--4E-- was bad enough, but to come out with this ... that is too much for me. After seeing this, I would tend to agree with a T-shirt that appalled one of the staff from GenCon that said "4E killed Gary Gygax!"

I hope 4E tanks and Hasbro has to sell D&D off to someone else. The Hasbro financials don't lie; it's not doing well. Then they can sack everyone who was instrumental in pushing 4E (Bill Slavicseck, I'm looking at you!) and get back to fixing the issues with 3.5 and giving us good, solid and supported content once again.

Until then, I'm sticking with 3.5 and I will never buy a new D&D book as long as WotC owns it.

Oh FFS, not this again.

We went through this with the Tiefling and Gnome interview.

IT. IS. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. FUNNY.

If you don't think it's funny, then fine. That doesn't mean they're attacking you. It's like somebody watching The King of Queens and shouting "OMG THEY'RE INSULTING FAT PEOPLE CALLING FAT PEOPLE STUPID! I'LL NEVER WATCH THE NETWORK AGAIN AND I HOPE IT TANKS!"

[Yakk]

What, WotC thinks that those who don't agree with 4e have a sense of humor?

[AmberVael]

Lambast it for being unfunny all you want, but there's simply no sense in taking offense when they're satirizing themselves at the same time.

I don't give it much weight- I know it is a parody, I know they didn't mean to insult anyone with it, not really. But at the same time, it's like someone just saying something that totally hits you wrong, even when you know what they're trying to say. You dismiss it- but it still feels irritating, you know?

[Tsotha-lanti]

I think some people need to develop a natural armor bonus.

[TheThan]

Ok lets look at this:
Clearly there’re a lot of symbolism here.


The dragon:

• Big
• Lazy
• Rich
• Eats orphans
• Thinks its superior to everyone else
• Doesn’t care about those smaller than it

A lot like, WOTC huh


The Forum Troll

• Lives on the Internet
• Have several specific complaints about 4E
• Gets crapped on my the dragon

Notice how that video has a lot more to say about themselves, as a company and people than they do about others.

[thegurullamen]

I agree with AstralFire, we should all take umbrage here because WotC thinks they're better than us.

[DM Raven]

This thread seems a bit pointless...

I'm just saying...

[Zeta Kai]

I'm a diehard 3.X fan & anti-4E as anyone, but I was not insulted by this cartoon. It's cute, it's kinda funny, & it's well animated (Adam Philips, you rock, good sir).

d00d, SRSLY, it's just a cartoon, & it rips on WotC & their rabid fanbase more than anyone else. To only see the troll & get offended about that is taking things out of context & missing a large chunk of the point.

I agree with the OP one a number of issues, but this just isn't one of them.

[Epinephrine]

I'll agree that the video was incredibly lame.
It swings and misses at being funny.

[shadow_archmagi]

What, WotC thinks that those who don't agree with 4e have a sense of humor?

I KNOW! Its terribly offensive, just going about assuming I have a sense of humor, or thinking that I won't CARE what a massive faceless corporation says about a vague group of people who may or may not include me!? The sheer indignit-

Wait? Whats that? Mac posted another commercial implying windows users are middle aged accountants!?

I'LL HAVE THEIR THROATS!

BY WHICH I MEAN POST ANGRY WORDS ON AN OBSCURE MESSAGE BOARD!

[DM Raven]

I KNOW! Its terribly offensive, just going about assuming I have a sense of humor, or thinking that I won't CARE what a massive faceless corporation says about a vague group of people who may or may not include me!? The sheer indignit-

Wait? Whats that? Mac posted another commercial implying windows users are middle aged accountants!?

I'LL HAVE THEIR THROATS!

BY WHICH I MEAN POST ANGRY WORDS ON AN OBSCURE MESSAGE BOARD!

Family Guy's Carter Pewterschmidt:
Haaaaaah

[Da Beast]

Every side of every debate has a few idiot trolls on it. 4e is no exception and there's no problem with wizards poking some fun at them. Seriously, that troll was on the screen for about 15 seconds while the dragon and its sycophantic idolizers were mocked for nearly the entire video. If this really offended you than you need to toughen up. You'll run into much worse in the world than someone poking fun at the internet debate about a role playing game.

[Tengu_temp]

I think people notice the troll the most because it's the funniest element of the animation.

Apart from what, what (almost) everyone said - this cartoon is not supposed to offend anyone.

On a side note... Wizards' cartoons could really use subtitles. It's hard to understand what characters are saying sometimes.

[Knaight]

I really don't see where that particular complaint is coming from. I could see "its incredibly stupid", but it basically insults everybody while being incredibly stupid.

[TheThan]

It’s not that I can’t take a little criticism or a joke. It’s that this video was obnoxious and rude (and not that funny to begin with). It says that ALL gamers that aren’t giving WOTC high praise for 4E are forum trolls that deserve to be crapped on.

That offends forum trolls everywhere. Not to mention the gamers who don’t wish to make the switch. It shows what WOTC really thinks about those who don’t blindly buy their stuff. They may try to disguise it as comedy in a cartoon, but it doesn’t really change the fact that they don’t like people who don’t buy their products. Despite the fact that most of these people (more than likely) have spend several hundred dollars on their previous edition.

Wizards of the coast has shown very little in the way of maturity. It’s like if Microsoft made an announcement that everyone who didn’t use/like windows are big fat doodoo heads.


The difference between this cartoon and a Mac commercial is that the Macintosh is trying to convince people that their product is cooler, more laid back and hipper (more hip?) than Microsoft’s product. In other words, they’re trying to boost sale.
This cartoon is just an angry backlash attack at those vocal people who don’t like/won’t buy 4.0. Sure it probably stems from forum trolls, but it is still an out right attack on their own customers.

[AstralFire]

It’s not that I can’t take a little criticism or a joke. It’s that this video was obnoxious and rude (and not that funny to begin with). It says that ALL gamers that aren’t giving WOTC high praise for 4E are forum trolls that deserve to be crapped on.

And that those that are, are mindless sycophants that... get crapped on and like it. Yes, this is obviously how they really feel about EVERYONE. Highly successful companies know that the way to continue their success is to attack everyone in the entire world including themselves.

That offends forum trolls everywhere. Not to mention the gamers who don’t wish to make the switch. It shows what WOTC really thinks about those who don’t blindly buy their stuff. They may try to disguise it as comedy in a cartoon, but it doesn’t really change the fact that they don’t like people who don’t buy their products.

No. Those "WotC reveals itself more than it does its critics?" thing? That was kind of intentional on their part, you didn't hit some big funny ironic insight. Did you think they had themselves as a dragon that ate babies accidentally? They were mocking themselves. Really, you're reading what you want to see in it. No more, no less.

[Thinker]

lol cry more.

[EvilElitest]

is it just me or the people who say they like 4E saying it isn't important and the people who don't like 4E acting offended? haven't watched it yet to determine its content, just making a comment
from
EE

[AstralFire]

is it just me or the people who say they like 4E saying it isn't important and the people who don't like 4E acting offended? haven't watched it yet to determine its content, just making a comment
from
EE

It's just you. Zeta Kai doesn't like 4E and I am very slightly positive towards it. I don't even remember the name of a single power in 4E, all I know is that I have a namesake feat. Haven't had the time to really get into it.

[AslanCross]

I think you're being over sensitive. The Troll is saying things like "ZOMFG MONEY GRAB!" "GNO GNOMES IN 4E!!11" "Y U IS NEED MINIS" I'm fairly certain people with actual, intelligent reasons to dislike 4e are not included in the puntastic Troll comparison.

This is exactly why I found it funny. (For the record I like both 3.5 and 4E)

[TheThan]

And that those that are, are mindless sycophants that... get crapped on and like it. Yes, this is obviously how they really feel about EVERYONE. Highly successful companies know that the way to continue their success is to attack everyone in the entire world including themselves.



No. Those "WotC reveals itself more than it does its critics?" thing? That was kind of intentional on their part, you didn't hit some big funny ironic insight. Did you think they had themselves as a dragon that ate babies accidentally? They were mocking themselves. Really, you're reading what you want to see in it. No more, no less.

You sort of missed it. The person that got crapped on turned into a mindless sycophant (he was a human at first, then turned into a lizard dude). Indicating that once you try their crap, you’ll never want to try something else. According to the cartoon they think even their worst products are of such great quality and so much better than their competition; they can produce crap material and people will blindly buy it. Even though it looks like their heads are so far into the clouds that they can’t see any.

As for the orphanage part, that was more than likely the artist’s/animator’s opinion getting mixed in the cartoon. As nothing else in the cartoon would indicate that they are making fun of themselves.

No I was not that angered or offended by it. I’m just interpreting it.