[4e] part of the corpse?

[quillbreaker]

This is the first line of the Raise Dead ritual.

To perform the Raise Dead ritual, you must have a part of the corpse of a creature that died no more than 30 days ago.

So... is a finger detached from the body in advance a part of the corpse, or do you need a piece of the body that did the actual dying?

[TheOOB]

I believe that would mean you need a part of the body from after it was dead. A finger taken off before hand isn't a part of a corpse, it's a part of the person.

That said, I would probably allow using that to raise dead, the literal interpretation of the rules and what I allow as a DM often varies considerably.

[1of3]

We ruled that the part had to be taken after death.

I'm thinking about making up a new ritual to preserve, say, a finger for performing a Raise Dead with it.

[BobVosh]

By RAW it won't work, you need to take it after they die.

By RAI it should.

[Yakk]

I'd be tempted with "it must have been part of the creature when it died".

That deals with the "I cut off my finger, do a one-way trip, die, and then raise myself back from the dead" raise-dead-as-teleport-cheese. Ie, imagine a hotline between two kingdoms implemented as a bunch of people who are told the message, killed, and raised in the other kingdom... Cutting off fingers then going into a dungeon with 'backup' gear, getting raised if you don't make it ... etc etc.

Hell, bad guys who have a fingernail bank that they keep refreshed and preserved, so whenever they die they can come back from the dead. :p

For fluff, your soul doesn't linger on parts of your body that are chopped off. At the moment of death, however, an imprint of your soul is placed on the pieces of your body, as it tries to cling to reality. Using that imprint the soul can be called back.

[Tempest Fennac]

Do you lose a level when you're brought back? I'm just curious about how it's handled in the 4th Edition.

[fractic]

Do you lose a level when you're brought back? I'm just curious about how it's handled in the 4th Edition.

No, you don't lose a level. You do however get -1 to attack, skill checks, saving throws etc. until you reach 3 milestones (about 6 encounters).

[Starbuck_II]

Do you lose a level when you're brought back? I'm just curious about how it's handled in the 4th Edition.

No, you just get a penalty similar to a negative level that only goes away after a couple milestones.

[Starsinger]

No, you don't lose a level. You do however get -1 to attack, skill checks, saving throws etc. until you reach 3 milestones (about 6 encounters).

6 encounters without resting.

[fractic]

6 encounters without resting.

You don't have to earn all the milestones in one day, also a very difficult encounter could be enough to reach a milestone by itself.

[Gralamin]

No, you don't lose a level. You do however get -1 to attack, skill checks, saving throws etc. until you reach 3 milestones (about 6 encounters).

Which is actually quite a steep penalty since
a) Every bonus to hit counts in 4E
b) Saving throws have very little effects that increase them, and a penalty to them makes it easier to die again.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me. It sounds easier to recover from then in earlier editions. In regards to the original question, I'd say it needs to be a part of the corpse at the time of death. How much does the ritual cost anyway?

[fractic]

Thanks for telling me. It sounds easier to recover from then in earlier editions. In regards to the original question, I'd say it needs to be a part of the corpse at the time of death. How much does the ritual cost anyway?

It costs 500 GP at heroic tier and 5000 and 50000 at paragon and epic tier respectively. It also takes 8 hours to cast so doing it in a dungeon isn't an option.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks. The cost increase seems odd from a fluff perspective (I suppose it kind of makes sense looking at how much money you have at each tier, though).

[fractic]

Thanks. The cost increase seems odd from a fluff perspective (I suppose it kind of makes sense looking at how much money you have at each tier, though).

It actually becomes relatively cheaper as you go up in tiers. As for the fluff, I suppose the afterlife likes to hang on to powerful souls for whatever reason.

[Starsinger]

Thanks. The cost increase seems odd from a fluff perspective (I suppose it kind of makes sense looking at how much money you have at each tier, though).

The stronger the character the tighter Death holds onto them and the more powerful (and thus expensive) reagents you need to bring them back. That's how my group looks at it anyways.

[Tempest Fennac]

Those ideas make more sense. Is there any justification in the manual?

[Arbitrarity]

"In all cases, death is less inclined to return paragon and epic heroes"

Is the only line of fluff about that.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks. (I wonder what death likes to do with them?)

[Starsinger]

Thanks. (I wonder what death likes to do with them?)

I imagine style tea-parties.

[Tempest Fennac]

That would be worrying. Is there a way of regenerating lost limbs which would make that Teleportation tactic practical?

[Khanderas]

Regarding the greater cost of raising dead as levels go up, I think that much of the "level" is tied up into the soul, as in powerful character with many class levels have a "stronger, bigger soul, that is simply harder to pull back. More substance if you will.

[potatocubed]

Thanks. (I wonder what death likes to do with them?)

Wait! My epic campaign sense is tingling...

All you have to do is engineer a level 28+ TPK (I have no idea if this is easy or hard in 4e) and introduce the characters to Death, who has a very special thing that needs doing. Only the greatest heroes ever have a chance of success...

You could even set things up so they have to do some things while dead and others while alive, although hopping back and forth across the shroud is more of a 3.x thing.

[Tempest Fennac]

That sounds like a really interresting idea, potatocubed. The only problem is that it would probably require a lot of rail-roading.

[Ikkitosen]

Clearly it gets more difficult to beat Death at Battleships and Twister as you gain levels!

[BobVosh]

Wait! My epic campaign sense is tingling...

All you have to do is engineer a level 28+ TPK (I have no idea if this is easy or hard in 4e) and introduce the characters to Death, who has a very special thing that needs doing. Only the greatest heroes ever have a chance of success...

You could even set things up so they have to do some things while dead and others while alive, although hopping back and forth across the shroud is more of a 3.x thing.

That would be awesome, espically if you used reincarnate and kept coming back as different things.

Clearly it gets more difficult to beat Death at Battleships and Twister as you gain levels!

Death would rather fight a skilled player than a lucky one :P

[Tempest Fennac]

Does Reincarnate have the same penalty as being raised, and how much does it cost to use in regads to both time and money in the 4th Edition?

[BobVosh]

Does Reincarnate have the same penalty as being raised, and how much does it cost to use in regads to both time and money in the 4th Edition?

I was talking in regards to 3.x, I'm not sure Reincarnate exists in 4ed (it would be a ritual and therefore redundant for a Reincarnate and Resurrect ritual to exist)

3.x Reincarnate was cheaper, but had the same penalties. Also came with a free body-switch.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks (I knew how it worked in the 3.5 Edition, but I didn't know if it existed in the 4th Edition as well).

[chiasaur11]

Clearly it gets more difficult to beat Death at Battleships and Twister as you gain levels!

So being smart makes him better able to guess the strategies you'll pull.

Explains the WYLD STALLIONS's victories, at any rate.