Vaarsuvius on path to become a Baelnorn?

[Ricardo]

I like this idea.

He is assuming the role of protector (saving the world), he is unswerving in his quest for knowledge, he seems 'driven'.

Discuss.

[RMS Oceanic]

What is a Baelnorn, and where can I read about it?

And one flaw in your argument: It's power, not knowledge, that motivates V.

[Ricardo]

Although I do not like Wikipedia, in this instance it can be useful for background on a Baelnorn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baelnorn
there are other references as well - which Wikipedia does a good job of noting.

Power... Knowledge... let's say he's seeking both. Without going into particulars, one could say knowledge = power.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He's not good, most likely. I thought Baelnorn had to be good.

[RMS Oceanic]

It's mostly Lawful Good. You just have to be non-evil.

...uh-oh. *Runs away from the alignment debates*

[Dacia Brabant]

The Forgotten Realms Wiki lists them as LG or LN. Course OOTS isn't FR (thank god) so its rules aren't binding, but that is I believe where the concept of specifically elven, non-evil liches originates.

And yeah, myself and a couple other people on this board have theorized that V might already be a baelnorn and that The Reveal is coming shortly. (For what it's worth, I think it's his/her desire for power combined with obsession of using that power to find Haley that would spark such a drastic decision.) It'll be interesting what happens with this character regardless.

[King of Nowhere]

Power... Knowledge... let's say he's seeking both. Without going into particulars, one could say knowledge = power.

For a wizard, pretty much.

Why should Baelnorn have alignment restriction? For all I know, they're non-evil liches; I don't see any need for alignment restrictions (and if there are, you can houserule).
Now, it would be quite in character for him to do such a thing, except for one particular: hir husband\wife. I don't think (s)he will be happy when V returns home as a walking skeleton.
Now, V don't give a damn about most people, but (s)he's extremely loyal to the few he considers friends (Haley, Roy). I don't think (s)he would disappoint a husband\wife that way.

That gave me an idea: he can turn into a Baelnorn for the rest of the quest, then return to his homelands, have somebody destroy and resurrect him, and stay with hir mate. When old, turn Baelnorn again.

[Ricardo]

That gave me an idea: he can turn into a Baelnorn for the rest of the quest, then return to his homelands, have somebody destroy and resurrect him, and stay with hir mate. When old, turn Baelnorn again.

lolz. cheese 4tw :)

[Prowl]

The catch is that a baelnorn is specific to the Forgotten Realms setting and there is no indication that OotS is conducted in that setting.

[Linkavitch]

So you're saying V is going to turn into a good lich? Huh. It begs the question: do elves skeletons differ any from human?

[AstralFire]

The catch is that a baelnorn is specific to the Forgotten Realms setting and there is no indication that OotS is conducted in that setting.

They made their way to Eberron, I believe, but Undead AND Elf means I wasn't really paying attention to that whole business.

[teratorn]

Can you change the title of this thread? It's a spoiler...

[Mando Knight]

So you're saying V is going to turn into a good lich? Huh. It begs the question: do elves skeletons differ any from human?

Baelnorns, unlike normal liches, do not usually become fleshless, skeletal beings. Rather, they appear... ancient, gaunt, stretched...

I think that V may indeed become a Baelnorn, since it would allow hir to obtain arcane power rivaling that of Xykon, enabling hir to overcome his resistances and arcane prowess.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Baelnorns, unlike normal liches, do not usually become fleshless, skeletal beings. Rather, they appear... ancient, gaunt, stretched...

I think that V may indeed become a Baelnorn, since it would allow hir to obtain arcane power rivaling that of Xykon, enabling hir to overcome his resistances and arcane prowess.

Actually, because V is a PC, it would most likely weaken hir, as the LA system is so incredibly borked it's not funny.

[Callista]

Yeah, I agree. And V sounds like the sort to know about LA.

Also... Well, V's an elf. S/he's not gonna run up against the end of hir life a for a long time; and the gate thing is happening pretty fast.

The only way I can see it happening is if V ends up needing a quick power boost for some amazing feat that's got to be accomplished or the whole quest fails; because if done for any other reason, it would only be a hindrance.

Baelnorn are mostly LG but need not be--someone who's trying to save the world, despite being TN, might well become one.

[jamroar]

Why should Baelnorn have alignment restriction? For all I know, they're non-evil liches; I don't see any need for alignment restrictions (and if there are, you can houserule).

Baelnorn are driven by the need to preserve an elven cause/tradition beyond the span of their lives, not arcane power. Hence the mostly LG/LN alignment.

V is more on the road to becoming an actual lich.

[Greep]

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heh, I agree with jamroar on V more likely to becoming a lich. Not to mention, it sounds like a very fitting "ultimate power" V might get with his 4 words prophecy, and it would CERTAINLY be for all the wrong reasons ;)

Btw I'm new to the forums.. do I have to put all predictions in spoilers even if it's in a "Prediction thread"?

[Teron]

They made their way to Eberron, I believe, but Undead AND Elf means I wasn't really paying attention to that whole business.

Actually, Aereni elves turn their most revered citizens into Deathless, which are sustained by worship and their homeland's many Irian manifest zones (planar leaks from the Plane of Positive Energy, basically). Better than "becoming a lich is unspeakably evil unless you're an elf", in my opinion.

[Jimorian]

Endgame prediction:

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If the final battle at the final gate follows any kind of pattern (an iffy guess knowing Rich), what you'll probably have is a Red Cloak vs. V penultimate battle, where V defeats RC. Xykon, now needing a replacement to perform the gate spell, tempts V. V says 4 words and gets his power (either in opposition or in conjunction with Xykon), but this being Roy's story, Roy has to conclude the actual battle with Xykon.

Further V Guess:

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The consequences of attaining Ultimate Arcane Power and because of the battle's fallout, V is stuck as a living seal to the last gate against the destruction of the universe.

[Teron]

Endgame prediction:

Spoiler

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If the final battle at the final gate follows any kind of pattern (an iffy guess knowing Rich), what you'll probably have is a Red Cloak vs. V penultimate battle, where V defeats RC. Xykon, now needing a replacement to perform the gate spell, tempts V. V says 4 words and gets his power (either in opposition or in conjunction with Xykon), but this being Roy's story, Roy has to conclude the actual battle with Xykon.

Further V Guess:

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The consequences of attaining Ultimate Arcane Power and because of the battle's fallout, V is stuck as a living seal to the last gate against the destruction of the universe.

The ritual can only be performed by an arcane and a divine caster. Xykon and Vaarsuvius couldn't do it.

[Greep]

hmm.. but redcloak and V could?

Edit: nvm, redcloak isn't fully on Xykon's side.

[Finwe]

Becoming a lich doesn't bestow one with any arcane power at all, much less 'ultimate' arcane power. Just a (potentially) unlimited lifespan.


In fact, it's a pretty stupid decision for a PC - Lich has an ECL of +4, meaning the character will be two spell levels behind their peers.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

And yeah, myself and a couple other people on this board have theorized that V might already be a baelnorn and that The Reveal is coming shortly. (For what it's worth, I think it's his/her desire for power combined with obsession of using that power to find Haley that would spark such a drastic decision.) It'll be interesting what happens with this character regardless.

The problem is that, while Lich requires casting, it is horrid for casters. It gives:

• +4HP/HD
• +5 NA(What high-level character doesn't either have that through an amulet or not care about AC?)
• A touch attack that is always weaker than spells
• Fear Aura(5HD? WTF?)
• Turn Resistance(would be nice, except all it really does is remind you that you gave up 4 levels in order to be affected by turning)
• DR(like the AC, very nice if you plan to be in melee. Liches are casters, why are they in melee?)
• Fairly nice immunities
• +2 to mentals(almost makes up for the drop in save DCs because of lost levels, but doesn't even even that out)
• Lose Con(maybe useful, maybe not)
• Skill bonuses(non-class skills, so why do you care?)
• Phylactery(Niiiiiice, the one thing on this list that maybe is worth a LA for a caster)

None of that is Ultimate Arcane Power. In fact, none of it benefits spells at all except the +2 to mentals, which is overshadowed by spell level loss. Gishes could get milage out of it, but V is not a Gish.

[Morty]

I'd say that the fact V has most likely banned Necromancy -by the process of elimiation, s/he uses spells from every school except this and Conjuration- seriously impedes the chances of V becoming any sort of undead willingly. Although I wouldn't be so sure there won't be any Faerun reference concerning this.

[de-trick]

i thiught V might of became a red robed wizard, my evedence is that she gave up her health to have more power, and V is wearing red

but i like your idea as well

[Eric]

The problem is that, while Lich requires casting, it is horrid for casters. It gives:
....
None of that is Ultimate Arcane Power. In fact, none of it benefits spells at all except the +2 to mentals, which is overshadowed by spell level loss. Gishes could get milage out of it, but V is not a Gish.

Isn't it really unfair how the baddies get all the good stuff and none of the bad.

Xykon never lost levels when he became lich, did he.

And as an Evil Overlord, he's surrounded by critters, which for the PC's would be FAR too numerous to be considered "Henchmen".

etc.

[Nerdanel]

Becoming a lich makes sense from a certain perspective. It offers power NOW at the cost of a level adjustment later, power that makes it easier to gain further XP. Part of the badness of a level adjustment is furthermore the fact that in a party the non-LA members profit disproportionally from one member's power when XP from an encounter is spread out.

I think V isn't a baelnorn, even if the setting contains them. I think he's just an elf lich. I think his recent behavior suggests that he has really gone off the deep end in the Evil department. He reminds me of Xykon.

[brilliantlight]

He is not a lich, he does not resemble this and all skeletal undead do. Nor does he have a fear aura.

[Euron]

What ever happened to spoilers in prediction threads?

[Nerdanel]

in SOD...

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ripped off his cracked skin right after he became a lich. There is nothing to suggest that all liches have to do that. Perhaps Xykon simply lacked the spell Gentle Repose and didn't want to rot.

I don't think V has been out of his cabin enough to know if he has an aura of fear that affects exclusively low-level characters that look at him and do not happen to be immune, such as paladins.