Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 18 of 32 FirstFirst ... 8910111213141516171819202122232425262728 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 540 of 958
  1. - Top - End - #511
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    17 pages after just 1 day. Holy hell!!!

    I have just been reading some of the past comics and compared to 's response to the Kubota problem, nothing else seems quite as funny as it used to anymore.

    This comic is why has always been my favourite, even when others were defecting to Elan-opolis, I held the fort and even if he/she never does anything again, I will always have this moment to cling to.

    On a rather different note, has anyone seen www.oots.cz because seeing Belkar shouting in Czech is brilliant.
    Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  2. - Top - End - #512
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by courtjester View Post
    Is it just me or does the OOTS team seem to be unbalanced? It seems that V is the engine of destruction and the rest of the characters are becoming bystanders that delay the bad guys while V charges up. V wipes out dragons, giant devils, and evil class "b" lords on his/her own while the other characters fight goblins, zombies, thieves, etc.
    That's the way it is in D&D: wizards can dish out damage than physical fighters. The higher the levels, the more true this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWizard View Post
    Aside from the events of Start of Darkness, Miko says it right here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html "They were evil, so I killed them!"
    Bear in mind that what's done out in the field, beyond the jurisdiction any city or nation, tends to be different from what's done within such jurisdictions. Otherwise Miko probably would've killed Kubota and half the other nobles years before the Order showed up in Azure City.

    There's a significant difference Evil alignment being sufficient reason to kill someone and Evil alignment being an actual crime under Azure City law, with summary execution as the prescribed penalty. If it were on the books that being Evil is a crime, Shojo wouldn't have needed to fake senility to deal with Evil nobles, he could've just sent the paladins to use Detect Evil on everybody and kill the ones who set it off. It's acceptable as far as Lawful Good alignment goes to kill somebody because they're Evil, without any knowledge of their specific Evil acts, but in most jurisdictions such summary executions would still be legally considered murder.
    Last edited by Red XIV; 2008-09-23 at 04:01 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #513
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordguy View Post
    @ alignment pedants: True Neutral means you can take evil actions on occasion.
    So what? That applies to any alignment, including Lawful Good. Only Paladins and exalted characters would be penalized by the rules for a single evil action, and even they can atone.

  4. - Top - End - #514
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Heheh, another great comic, and not what I was expecting to happen. And I'll kind of miss Kubota, event though he deserves what he gets.

    I suspect it bodes ill for V in some way. And it would work out as Kubota's last laugh if V's actions resulted in major headaches for Hinjo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Judge: Zone Of Truth
    Prosecutor: Why did you disintegrate a surrendered noble?
    V: Because of multiple murders, his verbatim tirade about how he could lie to the court and not be detected as such and his absolute conviction that he could turn his nefarious deeds to his advantage in his treasonous acts against the lawful ruler, even in his people's greatest need for unity.
    Judge: Truth.
    V:Defense rests.
    Judge: Next case
    Although where did V ever express anything like that? The distinct impression I got from his act here wasn't that he was necessarily aware of Kubota's plans for avoiding justice or concerned by his eeevil.

    It seemed more like "there is an obstruction between myself and the place I want to be, so I will remove it" - he committed an act that can probably be justified because Kubota is a villain with plans, but the actual intent behind it doens't seem to have anything to do with matters of justice or protecting the refugees from Kubota's future plots.

    It didn't seem any different then when he couldn't care less about the fate of Lien because he had more important things to do. He blasts Kubota because that's the quickest way to wrap up the whole affair and he has/ the part has more important things to worry about.
    Last edited by Dr. Cthulwho; 2008-09-23 at 04:06 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #515
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Wow, I did not know V was wise. Her/his... It's act has just solved a dozen of problem at once.. but might made things complicated.

    What would Trecla do if she sees Kubota has been killed? Perhaps think that Elan did it - as the imp would tell her.

  6. - Top - End - #516
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Random221 View Post
    Wow, I did not know V was wise. Her/his... It's act has just solved a dozen of problem at once.. but might made things complicated.

    What would Trecla do if she sees Kubota has been killed? Perhaps think that Elan did it - as the imp would tell her.
    If you mean Therkla, it doesn't matter because she's already dead.

  7. - Top - End - #517
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Red XIV View Post
    That's the way it is in D&D: wizards can dish out damage than physical fighters. The higher the levels, the more true this is.
    Actually in 3.5 physical fighters can deal ridiculous amounts of damage at high levels, but wizards have better things to do.

    At 13th level disintegrate does 26d6 damage if the save is failed.
    A 13th level rogue with rapid shot sneak attacking with a longbow fires 3 shots doing at least 1d8+1+7d6 each, even when using a non-magical weapon. With a magic weapon the rogue can do more.

    Flesh to stone has the same saving throw as disintegrate but takes out opponents regardless of how many hit points they have.

  8. - Top - End - #518
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    I would have V's babies, if that were genetically possible.

  9. - Top - End - #519
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2005

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    What's the big deal...
    I think the vast majority is right for once.

    V performed a CG act and now the party will pay for it, probably by being chucked off the fleet as they now constitute a political liability, i.e. they represent tyranny/dictatorship.

  10. - Top - End - #520
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Yeah.. I think the people talking against V are all flippin' crazy. All this talk about Kubota being killed in cold blood because he's an unarmed prisoner or whatever... He has a very long history of undermining lawful government for his own gain. V's alignment has never been made known, but this was definitely not an evil act. V appeared to take no pleasure in the situation, nor did he/she do it on a whim. Vaarsuvius did it because he had it coming and it was time for the story to move out of this boring lull.

  11. - Top - End - #521
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    I think it is safe to assume now that the next strip will be Elan lambasting V about this. The final panel will be Hijno, Durkon etc returning and asking them what has happened.
    Following that V will admit what he/she did and the three of them will be either be put under arrest or exiled from the fleet. Either way V will teleport them away (I doubt the ship has antimagic cells) and we will return to Haley's group.
    Chaos will ensue which will end with them running into V, Elan and Durkon and we'll return to gate seeking.

    Also doing the Good thing through Evil means is a neutral act (see Roys afterlife interview). Therefore V was acting as Chaotic Neutral.

    Ok V may technically broken the Geneva Convention, killing an unarmed, surrendered prisoner, but you forget they are on a boat in the middle of international waters, there is no real legal system where they are for him to break.
    Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2008-09-23 at 05:03 AM.
    Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  12. - Top - End - #522
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mc. Lovin''s Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Somerset, England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Mother of god.

    (That was AWESOME!)

  13. - Top - End - #523
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2005

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Yeah.. I think the people talking against V are all flippin' crazy. All this talk about Kubota being killed in cold blood because he's an unarmed prisoner or whatever... He has a very long history of undermining lawful government for his own gain. V's alignment has never been made known, but this was definitely not an evil act. V appeared to take no pleasure in the situation, nor did he/she do it on a whim. Vaarsuvius did it because he had it coming and it was time for the story to move out of this boring lull.
    Yes, the D&D alignment rules, even the core ones, are flipping crazy and people are arguing with them as if they constitute anything more then a few bound perms of loosely mashed together thoughts based on what is popular in this day once again based loosely and incompletely on the eternal rules.
    I.e. the people who argue against V were brought up on bottled postwars bottled milk and are expressing their views as such: Killing an unarmed (shya right) prisoner (he was in no way defenseless) that's about to get away with murder and is about to try to murder again (i.e. his only prison is death) is wrong. They refuse to discuss this over some BoEE book, or whatever you call it, and D&D core rules.

    Reminds me of how priests couldn't use piercing weapons, or how poison and vigorous interrogation including the infliction of pain is EVIL by definition and not tools with numerous counterparts in war and the judicial system that people refuse to consider over minutia (such as how many deaths are more painful than poison and torture,yet less necessary and at the same time sanctioned because ... I dunno... but I'm sure they can come up with something). Or how killing a dying person (which I'm usually against), old or wounded is wrong under ANY circumstances... ostensibly even if they were to suffer for eternity.

    About one of Sucrose's example:
    Spoiler
    Show
    I don't agree killing someone to send them to a better place is good though Sucrose, that treads the part of pro-active mercykilling, and just doesn't work due to free will. But yes, your arguments rock otherwise. Don't see why people cling to the books (and non-core at that) they've bought so desperately. It's not like a unified D&D system even exists... or the LIVE gameworlds have much membership.


    All examples of rules made up to be kind or for certain situations that people REFUSE to even CONTEMPLATE or DISCUSS simply because they're afraid of becoming relativists.
    Last edited by Moechi_Vill; 2008-09-23 at 04:53 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #524
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    I think the real treasure in the current comic page is Elan's expression. He realizes that he just traded one extremely delicate, frustratingly difficult problem for another one.
    "Fairy tales are more than true — not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten." - G. K. Chesterton

  15. - Top - End - #525
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2005

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benime View Post
    I think the real treasure in the current comic page is Elan's expression. He realizes that he just traded one extremely delicate, frustratingly difficult problem for another one.
    He'll get over it. Kubota was mudering his friends.

    As for being forced off the fleet, he'll be pissy about it, but will eventually realize it's a good chance to go and actually save the world and hook up with his girlfriend/party member Haley again.

    I'm hoping for a more cynical Elan as a result. He annoys me with his unrealistic strawberry love approach (strawberry as in it only works because the villain was madly in love with him).
    Last edited by Moechi_Vill; 2008-09-23 at 04:59 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #526
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Newcastle, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_Frazer View Post
    I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

    This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature.
    Well, that's blatantly not true. Vaarsuvius's reaction clearly demonstrates a perfectly valid perspective, that Kubota's scheming for political power is ultimately an irrelevant distraction from their both the group's task of saving the world and their own personal goals. But to say that therefore the distraction itself is worthless as a plot device is to miss the point.

    While we may not have gathered another group of B-plot recurring enemies to fill space, which is what you're demanding, this entire plot has developed Elan and Vaarsuvius' character to interesting places.
    On the one hand, Elan will now have the guilt of knowing that his decisions contributed to the death of a girl with unrequited love issues towards him.
    On the other, you have the fact that Vaarsuvius, while arrogant and domineering, can now actually back that up with raw power, and at the same time is going down the slippery slope of "It's in my way... fzaaak... now it's gone". I feel this bodes poorly for Belkar.

    You would apparently have gone for the standard choice of Yet Another Recurring Villain. But really, what does Kubota bring? Do we really need a small-minded mustachioed villain to provide plot? Is that supposed to be less dreary? Surely the idea of Vaarsuvius' slide into anti-hero is 100 times more interesting than the "promising future plotline" of "It's that wacky Kubota up to his old tricks again"

    Also, "Can we please get on with saving the world?" I believe Rule of Cool/Funny applies here.
    To the guy responsible for Belkar, Haley and Vaarsuvius. Thank you for providing over 800 comedy gems.

    My Favourite Giant Posts
    Well, It Took 10 Years, But His Tolerance For Rules-Based Criticism Finally Snapped Like A Dry Breadstick
    Race Should Not Dictate Alignment

    "What's the point in defending the defensible? Where's the challenge in that?" - Nick Naylor, Thank You for Smoking

    Spot the Toxic Comic Fans! Gotta Catch 'Em All!

  17. - Top - End - #527
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    charl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden, Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    V performed a CG act and now the party will pay for it, probably by being chucked off the fleet as they now constitute a political liability, i.e. they represent tyranny/dictatorship
    How is a tyranny/dictatorship chaotic, or good for that matter?

    It's more like the represent an idealistic form of anarchism.

  18. - Top - End - #528
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    This is bad.
    I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose

    "...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
    " Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."

    Note to Self:
    If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard

  19. - Top - End - #529
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SPoD View Post
    I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.
    I don't know, seems to me that the best time to execute someone is when they are helpless.

  20. - Top - End - #530
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Charl View Post
    How is a tyranny/dictatorship chaotic, or good for that matter?

    It's more like the represent an idealistic form of anarchism.
    Its not that he's saying its what they represent. He's saying its what they will appear to represent. Perspective, while influential, does not decide one's alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parlik View Post
    I don't know, seems to me that the best time to execute someone is when they are helpless.

    QFT. How else CAN you execute someone? An execution itself implies that the enemy is helpless to your attempt at killing him.


    @All the V-talk: While this probably will bite someone in the ass, V's actions will ultimately be more beneficial than hindering. Having Kubota as another minor evil to swat at the Order with would just cause immense amounts of annoyance, more than anything else. There are still plenty of unused characters with far more practicality to the storyline.
    Last edited by Marduk Prophet; 2008-09-23 at 05:20 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #531
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deworde View Post
    Well, that's blatantly not true. Vaarsuvius's reaction clearly demonstrates a perfectly valid perspective, that Kubota's scheming for political power is ultimately an irrelevant distraction from their both the group's task of saving the world and their own personal goals. But to say that therefore the distraction itself is worthless as a plot device is to miss the point.

    While we may not have gathered another group of B-plot recurring enemies to fill space, which is what you're demanding, this entire plot has developed Elan and Vaarsuvius' character to interesting places.
    On the one hand, Elan will now have the guilt of knowing that his decisions contributed to the death of a girl with unrequited love issues towards him.
    On the other, you have the fact that Vaarsuvius, while arrogant and domineering, can now actually back that up with raw power, and at the same time is going down the slippery slope of "It's in my way... fzaaak... now it's gone". I feel this bodes poorly for Belkar.

    You would apparently have gone for the standard choice of Yet Another Recurring Villain. But really, what does Kubota bring? Do we really need a small-minded mustachioed villain to provide plot? Is that supposed to be less dreary? Surely the idea of Vaarsuvius' slide into anti-hero is 100 times more interesting than the "promising future plotline" of "It's that wacky Kubota up to his old tricks again"

    Also, "Can we please get on with saving the world?" I believe Rule of Cool/Funny applies here.
    Strongly agreed. Kubota was a B-plot villain. His B-plot was coming to an end, so naturally he was going to die. And the long-term importance of this arc was never going to be anything other than its effects on V and Elan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parlik View Post
    I don't know, seems to me that the best time to execute someone is when they are helpless.
    And surely destroying the evidence is better than leaving it laying around for all to see.

  22. - Top - End - #532
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Newcastle, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Red XIV View Post
    Strongly agreed. Kubota was a B-plot villain. His B-plot was coming to an end, so naturally he was going to die. And the long-term importance of this arc was never going to be anything other than its effects on V and Elan.
    The only other thing would have a rather interesting tale concerning Elan dating Therkla for all the wrong reasons (damn Oracle phrases), and then having to explain his decision to Haley. But his reaction to that not happening should be just as good.
    Incidentally, I should make it clear that I disagree strongly with V's actions. Which is what makes this story more interesting.
    Also, there's a rather good line on hypocrisy that this thread reminds me of.
    “You know, when I was a young man, hypocrisy was deemed the worst of vices,” Finkle-McGraw said. “It was all because of moral relativism. You see, in that sort of a climate, you are not allowed to criticize others—after all, if there is no absolute right and wrong, then what grounds is there for criticism?”

    […]

    “Now, this led to a good deal of general frustration, for people are naturally censorious and love nothing better than to criticise others’ shortcomings. And so it was that they seized on hypocrisy and elevated it from a ubiquitous peccadillo into the monarch of all vices. For, you see, even if there is no right and wrong, you can find grounds to criticise another person by contrasting what he has espoused with what he has actually done. In this case, you are not making any judgment whatsoever as to the correctness of his views or the morality of his behavior—you are merely pointing out that he has said one thing and done another. Virtually all political discourse in the days of my youth was devoted to the ferreting out of hypocrisy.
    […]

    “Because they were hypocrites,” Finkle-McGraw said, after igniting his calabash and shooting a few tremendous fountains of smoke into the air, “the Victorians were despised in the late twentieth century. Many of the persons who held such opinions were, of course, guilty of the most nefandous conduct themselves, and yet saw no paradox in holding such views because they were not hypocrites themselves—they took no moral stances and lived by none.”
    […]

    “We take a somewhat different view of hypocrisy,” Finkle-McGraw continued. “In the late-twentieth-century Weltanschauung, a hypocrite was someone who espoused high moral views as part of a planned campaign of deception—he never held these beliefs sincerely and routinely violated them in privacy. Of course, most hypocrites are not like that. Most of the time, it’s a spirit-is-willing, flesh-is-weak sort of thing.”

    “That we occasionally violate our own stated moral code,” Major Napier said, working it through, “does not imply that we are insincere in espousing that code.”

    “Of course not,” Finkle-McGraw said. “It’s perfectly obvious, really. No one ever said that it was easy to hew to a strict code of conduct. Really, the difficulties involved—the missteps we make along the way—are what make it interesting. The internal, and eternal, struggle, between our base impulses and the rigorous demands of our own moral system is quintessentially human. It is how we conduct ourselves in that struggle that determines how we may in time be judged by a higher power.”
    Kubota's obviously the worst kind of hypocrite, but to me, a lot of the Vaarsuvius supporters seem to be following the standard 20th Century "morals make you a hypocrite, better not to have them".

    The fact is that Vaar is far, far more dangerous, and even less controlled or predictable, than Kubota. You'll be fine with it, right up until the point where he crosses the line and kills Haley or Elan for arguing with him. But hey, at least he won't be hypocritical about it.
    Last edited by deworde; 2008-09-23 at 05:38 AM.
    To the guy responsible for Belkar, Haley and Vaarsuvius. Thank you for providing over 800 comedy gems.

    My Favourite Giant Posts
    Well, It Took 10 Years, But His Tolerance For Rules-Based Criticism Finally Snapped Like A Dry Breadstick
    Race Should Not Dictate Alignment

    "What's the point in defending the defensible? Where's the challenge in that?" - Nick Naylor, Thank You for Smoking

    Spot the Toxic Comic Fans! Gotta Catch 'Em All!

  23. - Top - End - #533
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphoid View Post
    I don't see how anyone could argue that that wasn't an evil act. I mean he was tied up, he posed no immediate bodily threat to anyone. There were a number of other spells she could have used to say, relocate him halfway around the world, perhaps addle his mind, or some such.
    But most important it is evil for the true reason V did it. Save the world? Pffft, right, say "continue my research" and you will be nearer to the truth.
    I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose

    "...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
    " Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."

    Note to Self:
    If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard

  24. - Top - End - #534
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Steven the Lich's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    I really don't know...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    It took a whole lot of panels to get Kubota's hand coaught in the jar, and just when we think its just going to continue... V comes in and pulls a Tenloss Disruptor... Thats the disintegrater in Starwars, for those of you unaware.

    I have to say, V going "Blow you into oblivion!" isn't going to sit well with a whole lot of people. However, as a small tale, they could say that Kubota was no where to be found, since there would be no evidence of his death. Elan is the only witness, and I think he will gladly keep his mouth shut about V killing Kubota... But more in a fearful way than a "Well, he's my friend" way.

    Kubota probably wouldn't have won the trial either, since there are multiple witnesses that can testify, and we have cold hard evidence that Therkla was working for Kubota... She pretty much (Unwittingly) told Hinjo and his group about it. However, given his ego and antagonist plans, he did have a shot.

    Overall, I just love this comic. We finally get Kubota get it... And at an unlikely time, as Kubota had surrendered too. By the way, do you think V overheard Kubota's entire conversation?
    "The Lich King? Sure, hes my cousin... The Witch King? Hes my best friends nephew... Voldemort? Hes my girlfriends uncle, twice removed... Darth Vader? Who the heck is that guy?" - Steven the Lich

    "Get the Lead out" #281
    The Lead sheet? Ba! It doesn't matter now, it didn't prevent me from finding you.
    True. Luckily, its a multipurpose lead sheet.
    What possible other purpose could a big lead...
    WANG!

    Thanks to Thecrimsonmage for the awesome avatar.

  25. - Top - End - #535
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Holammer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Under the Mountain
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk Prophet View Post
    I would have V's babies, if that were genetically possible.
    For all we know. You two might have the same sex, so it might just be plain impossible. This strip did provoke some interesting amount of feedback fast. 18 pages and 500+ posts. Probably won't stop there either.

    Now, I'll argue that a good person (LG-NG-CG) would never execute a helpless opponent that is yielding. Elan is clearly CG and he ceased his attack the second Kubota yielded despite having a good opportunity of just having him drown. Okay, he did give him a shiner in anger, but that's the Chaotic in him. He did not betray his Good alignment. In fact, he went thought a lot of effort to subdue kobuta and bring him to justice.
    That's the way the cookie crumbles for good characters. Altruism and sanctity of life is the order of the day and we don't even have to follow Exalted Deeds rules to play like that. E.D. is just extra fluff added to further reward the play style. Don't bring up the killing orc children stuff now. If it's in the monster manual the rules support it. it's A-OK!

    Elan just witness the execution of a helpless bad guy by the hands of a comrade. When his disbelief and shock passes, what happens next? It will be interesting to see where Rich takes the story from here.
    Spoiler
    Show

  26. - Top - End - #536
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Red XIV View Post
    Bear in mind that what's done out in the field, beyond the jurisdiction any city or nation, tends to be different from what's done within such jurisdictions. Otherwise Miko probably would've killed Kubota and half the other nobles years before the Order showed up in Azure City.

    There's a significant difference Evil alignment being sufficient reason to kill someone and Evil alignment being an actual crime under Azure City law, with summary execution as the prescribed penalty. If it were on the books that being Evil is a crime, Shojo wouldn't have needed to fake senility to deal with Evil nobles, he could've just sent the paladins to use Detect Evil on everybody and kill the ones who set it off. It's acceptable as far as Lawful Good alignment goes to kill somebody because they're Evil, without any knowledge of their specific Evil acts, but in most jurisdictions such summary executions would still be legally considered murder.
    Oh, I wasn't even suggesting that he'd have a legal defense. Of course, "jurisdiction" is a bit less clear when it's less a civilization and more a fleet. I was just making the point about the Alignment issue, that the law has nothing to do with the morality of events, from a D&D perspective. Lawful alignments don't have to be tied to civil law, non-Lawful even more so.

    If (big if) there's anyone around who will testify about what V did, he'll have to answer for it. Of course, then we get into the question of what the forces of law on the Azure Fleet think they can do to make V do anything he doesn't feel like doing, particularly since she's said that she doesn't consider him/herself subject to Southern law.
    Be WARY of rousing a rizard's... of wousing a wizard's... be CAREFUL about making a magician ANGRY!

  27. - Top - End - #537
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    One thing that I must protest against is the nearly unanimous assumption by the posters on this thread that V is justified in killing Kubota because he/she knew that doing so would allow Elan, Durkon, and himself/herself to continue their quest to save the world unimpeded. How so? It certainly eliminates the possibility of random encounters generated by Quarr. How about random encounters not generated by Quarr, are those completely impossible given normal circumstances? Aren't the heroes still required to travel from place to place by boat. I was under the impression that V could not cast teleport-type spells of any kind? If a trial for Kubota was held, could it not be held below the deck of a moving ship? How would that impede the OOT's quest in any way? V would not even have to attend the proceedings if his/her testimony were not required.

    It is also risky to assume what V knows and does not know about Kubota and his machinations. V was notably absent during the Orc Island module, and he/she was not present in many of the character developing dialogues involving Kubota. This lack of knowledge/understanding about who Kubota was and what he was about leads me to conclude that V had no persuasive reason for reducing Kubota to his base elements.

    As a side note, for those making the claim that V was not in his/her right mind at the time, realize that V had the presence of mind to dispose of the evidence of his/her crime.

  28. - Top - End - #538
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Newcastle, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Level20Commoner View Post
    As a side note, for those making the claim that V was not in his/her right mind at the time, realize that V had the presence of mind to dispose of the evidence of his/her crime.
    To be fair, he may have just been sweeping up the mess.
    Seriously, we really don't know what planet V's brainship's orbiting at the moment. For all we know he killed Kubota because of the moustache.
    Last edited by deworde; 2008-09-23 at 05:56 AM.
    To the guy responsible for Belkar, Haley and Vaarsuvius. Thank you for providing over 800 comedy gems.

    My Favourite Giant Posts
    Well, It Took 10 Years, But His Tolerance For Rules-Based Criticism Finally Snapped Like A Dry Breadstick
    Race Should Not Dictate Alignment

    "What's the point in defending the defensible? Where's the challenge in that?" - Nick Naylor, Thank You for Smoking

    Spot the Toxic Comic Fans! Gotta Catch 'Em All!

  29. - Top - End - #539
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilElitest View Post
    An exalted society wouldn't ever execute somebody no. However, outside the heavens, i don't think there are any exalted societies. A good society however, could execute without becoming evil, it just isn't good ether.
    Azure city, pre-fall, used to summon celestial beings for imparting judgement; these beings, the literal embodiment of law and good, could dish out capital punishment.

    Please do not reply to this post. I am not interested in discussing with you.

  30. - Top - End - #540
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    You know, I can see this being both an in-character and out-of-character thing. In character, it's a continuation of V's recent physical and mental deterioration in the interest of rescuing Haley - both out of personal frustration, and from concern over the delays of a long trial. And out of character, I can easily picture a player acting that way over an unwelcome diversion from the main plot.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •