Results 781 to 810 of 958
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2008-09-23, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- The Blessed Geometry
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2008-09-23, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Melbourne, Australia
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
I have to say, this is possibly the greatest page yet. Kubota has been a karma houdini from the start and it's wonderful to see him get the punishment he so richly deserved.
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2008-09-23, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
So yeah, I know I'm late to the party here, but....
Holy crap!! Did *not* see that coming.
Not that Kubota didn't richly deserve his fate, of course, but I didn't expect V to be his executioner (muderer?) of all people. He's way more over the edge than even I realized....
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2008-09-23, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
It's been said before, but there isn't anything anyone can do to stop V.
I can see Hinjo trying to do something about it, I can see a big public fallout over this, but in the end, when the troops try to arrest V or Hinjo confronts him/her, V can literally disable the ENTIRE FLEET.
Hinjo may be a Paladin, but he isn't stupid. And furthermore, even if he does try to hold V, V can quite easily pack his bags, leave, and take his ball too.
The problem with Wizard's is V at this point (sadly) makes the entire OOTS redundant for everything. Luckly, V isn't Evil.
But ... Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Could get interesting, but also could get lame if V suddenly becomes batman.
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2008-09-23, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- Michigan
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Holy Freakin Crap!!!!!
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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2008-09-24, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
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2008-09-24, 01:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Although there wasn't really anything V said at the time that would indicate that was her intention/motivation. It sounded far more like an act of impatience, not all that different then when she couldn't really be bothered by Lien's fate because she had, to her mind, more important things to do.
So V was protecting her over-all goals from future inconvenience. And it could be said her actions were justified because, arguably, Kubota deserved it and getting back to saving the world is important.
Which I guess comes to the whole two-wrongs thing. First was what V did wrong? In most places it would be unlawful to shoot a guy in handcuffs in the back of a police car who had just been arrested for, say, murder. Even if he was saying what a good lawyer he had and all the crooks who would support him and how he was certain he would get away with it.
Of course V isn't bound by a lawful alignment or needs to adhere to the laws of Azure City. She has his own compass of right an wrong independent from such external concerns, and doesn't need to even think the laws are right or good.
She certainly did what she thought was necessary. And she did it in a mighty impressive and funny way.
Anyway, I definitly imagined something popping up saying "Dark side points gained" - V is looking pretty Sith. Fully Sith one might say.
Originally Posted by spectralphoenix
No, s/he's doing it because "facing the hard way" would involve putting lots of innocents killed. And I really would like to know where you're getting this definition for "cowardly." Dictionary.com has it at "contemptibly timid," "exhibiting ignoble fear," and the like. Not "not willing to risk the lives of hundreds of people based on a sourcebook that probably isn't being used because it would be 'harder'"
I like the idea of someone saying to her "Thank goodness, now no more Azurite lives will be endangered by his actions" only for V to say something like, "Then that is a plus, I was only concerned with removing this constant distraction from my primary goals which include saving the world. Maybe now I'll be able to work in peace".
Because that's more V to me, the pragmatist with her eye on the prize, not someone aiming to solve a moral problem because the A.C. legal system is unable to (but I agree, there is nothing cowardly in V's actions).Last edited by Dr. Cthulwho; 2008-09-24 at 01:35 AM.
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2008-09-24, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Clearfield, Pennsylvania
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Vaarsuvius just became my favorite OotS character EVER.
I know people use LOL WAAAY too often on the Internet, so much so that is has become all but meaningless, but I literally laughed out loud in Chaotic Good (or even Neutral Good) glee when I read this!
So what if I just walked home from the bar slightly (well, more than slightly) drunk, only to find this waiting for me? It is still wonderful.
V has been contesting with Roy as my favorite character, and has just won the top spot forever.
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2008-09-24, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Thing is, the question of whether what Vaarsuvius did was wrong is largely independent of the question of whether V thought it was wrong. We know that V has a thick amoral streak. We know that V has been pushing to the extreme limit of V's physical endurance. V is probably in the elven equivalent of a sleep-deprived haze right now, and V wasn't a paragon of mental stability to begin with.
V's idea of what is right and wrong may not be the one we want to use. V is not in possession of all the facts and probably isn't entirely sane at the moment.
Anyway, I definitly imagined something popping up saying "Dark side points gained" - V is looking pretty Sith. Fully Sith one might say.
I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong, evil or good (though I will say it was pretty awesome) but where does the assumption come from that V had the "lives of hundreds of innocent people" on her mind at all?
I like the idea of someone saying to her "Thank goodness, now no more Azurite lives will be endangered by his actions" only for V to say something like, "Then that is a plus, I was only concerned with removing this constant distraction from my primary goals which include saving the world. Maybe now I'll be able to work in peace".
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2008-09-24, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
These are two contradictory points that people seem to miss connecting somehow. V's going to need the rest of the Order, because the wizard is soon going to lack the stamina to successfully find his spellbook in the morning, for all of the penalties applied. Wizards are squishy, and being a pure-blooded elf makes V even squishier. V can't go off alone, because s/he's going to die from the first couple of surprise attacks. Or the wizard is going to have to shift much more to defensive mode (if s/he even has the option within s/he's repertoire of spells!), and move a lot slower, while time is running out.
The one aspect of D&D I've always found fun is how, given the right DM, you keep getting changes in who is on the front lines, and who is on backup. Now, I know that's a strange notion to hold, but I've seen it done very satisfyingly. Going off alone on a serious quest is just as deadly for fighter and mage alike. A high-level cleric is in the least danger of all, but you can come up with something.
Speaking of clerics, I'm not sure if this had been asked in the forums, and I've never played clerics in D&D - do they have spells that can replenish one's strength from such exhaustion? If so, I can't help but wonder why Durkon didn't relieve V's state. The elf's generally more agreeable when feeling well, and that would make V a lot easier to reason with. Being made to live out the consequences of one's choices is all well and good, but when this is the party's mage, the consequences are going to be felt all around.There are thousands of good reasons magic doesn't rule the world. They're called mages. - Slightly misquoted Pratchett
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2008-09-24, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
First- all of this talk of "wow, s/he committed an evil act, now s/he's changed alignment" is silly. Alignment doesn't worth that way. Alignment is about trends. One evil act does not move one's alignment. Neither does one good act. Unless, perhaps it is a hell of an act. This doesn't fit that scope. Using a spell to instantly kill every halfling in existence might be that kind of act. But even then I'm not sure. (were it killing every Goblin, that would be OK, adventurers do that all the time)
Second, sometimes an act that would be normally evil isn't. I'm not saying this is one of those times, but here is an example-
Suppose a child had a deadly, communicable disease. this disease was incurable, and would wipe out almost all of humanity. It normally has a 20 day latent period that has no symptoms, however the child is the .0001% of the population that wont die from the disease. She however can spread the disease. There iss no cure. No treatment. You are the security guard at the facility where the child is housed.. You see the child running in the hall ont he security monitor. When you get down there, the child has managed to squeeze through a window and is running outside toward the fence. You yell "stop!" but she does not. You cannot make it through the window. If the child gets to the fence, they could scale it and escape to the nearby city.
Is shooting the child evil?
If you said NO, realize you just admitted that shooting an unarmed defenseless child (who is posing no direct risk to you) in the back is not an evil act.
Still believe in black/white morality?
-+G
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2008-09-24, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Cold, dry place
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
The scariest thing is: I agree with V 100%.
It might not have been a good thing to do, but it was the right thing to do. Someone had to stop this petty fight for power over a city they don't even control. World IS in danger and OotS, both being one of the most capable forces around and knowing what's going on, are obligated to do their best to deal with the issue at hand.
The way I see it, the comic will take more serious tone from now on (say, like it was during the AC battle) and the plot will progress. Time for mindless bickering over who rules some real estate is over.Last edited by NikkTheTrick; 2008-09-24 at 02:27 AM.
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2008-09-24, 02:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- La Puente, CA
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
It would be unlawful. That does not make it evil, and you will find many a cop who thinks that true justice requires that this lout never make it alive to the police station. [Fortunately they are generally watched too closely to actually act on that since, being human, they are often enough wrong about who deserves such direct justice and how much, but that it allows great injustice at times is obvious.]
But except for this last incident, Kubota was not a distraction from V's research. In fact, V deemed it a personal bonus in that he was able to gain XP from defeating the threats. Kubota dead is clearly going to be much more of a distraction as he has to deal with the fuss of those lawful fools who are upset he didn't fill out the paperwork before eliminating the threat.
Kubota was a distraction for everybody else, and a general menace, but for V herself, he was no real problem, and the trial would have been no distraction.
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2008-09-24, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Greece
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Single most awesome moment so far.
wins the strip.
Really, he did what I've been wanting to do myself for a while! That's what wizards are for. Problem-solving. The gust of wind in particular was a great touch.
Of course, it'd have been better if Kubota had seen it coming or suffered a little in his defeat, but it's alright. We know there's an afterlife, and his little ghost floating around invisible, right now? Man he is going to be angry.
"No! No! You can't do that! That's not FAIR! Hells! Can't anyone hear me?"Last edited by J.Gellert; 2008-09-24 at 03:49 AM.
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2008-09-24, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
I know trope qouting is horribly over done, but I couldn't help but be like
"Haha Kabutoa, no KarmaHoudini for you!"This site gives 1.1 cup of food for each click Please spread it http://www.thehungersite.com
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2008-09-24, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Northern California
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Frankly, I've given up trying to guess what will happen next. Not only has Rich shown repeatedly that he's willing to zig or zag with any particular plot point, but also to zeg, zog, zug, sometimes zyg, and even occasionally zwg.
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Then there is my gaming YouTube page with Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft, and others.
Finally, I stream on Twitch, mostly Kerbal Space Program and Minecraft.
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2008-09-24, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Slovenia
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
What, only now? I've been affraid of V since comic #20.
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2008-09-24, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
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2008-09-24, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Ahhhh, the old Disintegrate/Gust of Wind combo. Bane of both arch-enemies and PC's alike since first edition! That joke just never gets old though.
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2008-09-24, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
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2008-09-24, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
"Vaarsuvius! What does the scouter say about your Awesome Level?"
"My preliminary analysis indicates that three squared times ten cubed is insufficient to properly quantify it."
"WHAT THREE SQUARED TIMES TEN CUBED!?"
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2008-09-24, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder how many alignment arguments this will bring up..
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2008-09-24, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
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- Germany
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Hehe, I'd actually like to see that. :D It simply couldn't have even crossed Kubota's mind that not everybody is willing to play his little game... XD
Also, people keep saying that Vaarsuvius could easily level the fleet if anyone tried to arrest him. I do not think that is the case. Vaarsuvius is currently low on hit points, physically and mentally exhausted, and probably doesn't have many, if any, high level spells remaining. Not to say a single Suggestion spell can't be used to wreak havoc if V wished so, but now might actually be the best opportunity to take V into custody, which might create interesting dilemmas for Hinjo since Vaarsuvius depleted his spells in the process of saving all of their butts.
This would be interesting. Vaarsuvius might get successfully apprehended, and then Hinjo would step in and set V free for everything he owes him. Cue the Order leaving the fleet.
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2008-09-24, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
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- Alabama
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
But think about Elan. I'm sure he'll try and cover for V. Sure, he's horrified that V zapped Kubota into oblivion, but no matter what, they're both Chaotic Good, and Elan's one of V's comrades.
Would you try and turn your back against a friend...who's a wizard with a much higher level than you? Elan's not THAT stupid.
Hinjo will probably let the group go free, no matter if V's guilty of the cold-blooded murder of an egotistic nobleman, because A) V's depleted his spells to save their rear ends TWICE. First in the battle of Azure City and in the fight with the colossial demon.
and
B) V's the most powerful force Hinjo has. Why would he go on V's bad side?
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2008-09-24, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Exalted deeds is 3.5, not 3.0. Vile Darkness is 3.0, but not superseded (its definitions of Evil are considered valid for massively multiplayer D&D: Living Greyhawk. See site FAQ).
Murder, torture etc are not only evil in Exalted Deeds. they are Corrupt in the later source Fiendish Codex 2.
However, referring back to ED: "the death penalty for serious crimes is widely accepted and does not qualify as evil" P11
An Exalted judge could sentence someone to death. An Exalted executioner could carry out that punishment. Fiendish Codex 2 defines carrying out legal executions as Lawful.
However, what V did was not an execution, could not fairly be called self defence, and Kubota was not an enemy combatant. Its not Justifiable Homicide, its not Manslaughter, its Murder.
D&D objective alignment is only 3.0-3.5 era, I checked AD&D 2nd ed Players Handbook and it said different cultures could have different, equally valid definitions of Good and Evil, and it was subjective.Last edited by hamishspence; 2008-09-24 at 08:56 AM.
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2008-09-24, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure what you're all arguing about. Disintegrate? What Disintegrate? Elan tried, but Kubota escaped and V just happened by in time to pull Elan out of the water.
(That's my story and I'm sticking to it. It would be Shojo's story too, methinks)
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2008-09-24, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- In your face!
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
V!
V! V! V! V! V! V!Last edited by Belkar Rocks; 2008-09-24 at 09:06 AM. Reason: One of my V's was not upper case. D'oh!
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2008-09-24, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
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2008-09-24, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
- Location
- Northern Virginia
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-09-24 at 09:08 AM.
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2008-09-24, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread
The fact that people are actually taking Kubota's side in this can only mean that the D&D alignment system turns its players into moral absolutists.
*Insert random Terry Pratchett quote here*