OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

[Pronounceable]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

As for consequences: Irrelevant. V is the most powerful thing around here, none can stop him from doing whatever he wants. Only Durkon or Elan can try to reason with him but seeing V's condition, it's unlikely. Even if everyone turns against him, he can leave (or sink the whole armada if it comes to that).

There WILL be consequences: Hinjo could never agree with this, Elan will be stuck between them, there's probably a lot of nobles on Kubota's side... But they'll only serve to further define V's character, because (this bears repeating) there's no one who can stop him.

[Toper]

Yeep. That was... unexpected. I don't quite understand the clamoring of "awesome" here... the COMIC is superb, great expressions and timing, but man, V's not doing too hot with the murdering-prisoners-to-save-time thing. At least last time they had the reason that the prisoners would have escaped and killed lots of people... here, V seems as likely to start a war as prevent one.

I guess we'll see what happens. Seems like unless they can really play dumb -- and you'd think Kazumi at least was right there watching from the ship -- the very least that can happen is Hinjo kicking them out of the group. Which is maybe what V is going for.

[Danukian]

V is the (Wo)Man!

[The_Weirdo]

Just to point out, Kubota DID send an imp that DID try to kill the party V was in. That included V himself.

So, in effect, Kubota tried to kill V.

Well, V tried to kill Kubota.

One of them succeeded. ;)

[Lord]

Just a thought, in regards to the whole "Elan ratting out V" idea. I think there's a low level spell called alter memory. As the name suggests it allows you to alter 5 minutes of memory. V could use that to make elan remeber things differantly..
Not saying it will happen though

[Skaarg]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

As for consequences: Irrelevant. V is the most powerful thing around here, none can stop him from doing whatever he wants. Only Durkon or Elan can try to reason with him but seeing V's condition, it's unlikely. Even if everyone turns against him, he can leave (or sink the whole armada if it comes to that).

There WILL be consequences: Hinjo could never agree with this, Elan will be stuck between them, there's probably a lot of nobles on Kubota's side... But they'll only serve to further define V's character, because (this bears repeating) there's no one who can stop him.

V is smart enough to realize that everything you say is true and perceptive enough to notice it once Elan and the rest turn against him (or her). Once he (or she) discovers that "there's no one who can stop him [or her]", how far away can ultimate arcane power be?

[Balkash]

Holy Freaking Crap +3! That was sweet. V finally does something good.

[Deepkicker]

I just got back from a midnight shift at work and I'm treated to this utter awesomeness! This is the first time in a long while that this comic has inspired a verbal reaction out of me. It was a kind of exalted "Ohhh..."

Also, look what's written in my signature about V. It's happening.

[Vonriel]

*awesome picture*

Truth.

Also, *begins channeling the little kid from The Incredibles*:
That was AWESOME!

[LuisDantas]

Apparentally "Those ninjas were obviously sent by somebody else and were just trying to smear my good name" is a legitimate legal defense, so considering that V and Elan were the only witnesses, saying "Kubuto chose to commit honorable suicide by jumping into the ocean with all that heavy armor on" should be equally legitimate.

No one would believe it. More significantly, neither Elan nor Hinjo will condone that line. Nor will the Katos, who may well have been watching the event. Remember Kazumi trying to stop Elan in the previous strip? I believe she saw V approaching and tried to tell Elan not put himself at risk.

[dogmac]

Um... V.....

V...

That isn't nice.

In fact, V, I would put that down as murder.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING V?????????????

You have just gone through to the evil side!

STOP IT V!!!! Come back to the light!!!!!!!!

[Lord Seth]

Hrm...well this proves that V isn't Lawful Good. Now, does (s)he count as Neutral or Chaotic due to this...

[tanonx]

I think their time with the Azurites is drawing to a close... After all, if V's remained persistant, he's got a chance of having contacted Haley by now. He'd have little love for staying on a boat for any longer than he had to, and what better way to convince them to make a stop ASAP?

Think the statements of 'awesome' are a combo of V just having destroyed a page-upon-page enemy in two panels (with style), and those who were pretty much thinking the same thing. 'Let's get on with saving the world, shall we?'

[busterswd]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

It's because it's him saying the right (debatably) thing at the right time to the right being for all the wrong reasons.

[Vulion]

Whoa...that was...whoa...

[The_Weirdo]

No one would believe it. More significantly, neither Elan nor Hinjo will condone that line. Nor will the Katos, who may well have been watching the event. Remember Kazumi trying to stop Elan in the previous strip? I believe she saw V approaching and tried to tell Elan not put himself at risk.

Bom, Elan ou Hinjo confirmarem não é tanto problema assim. Além do que, francamente, é um cara que efetivamente tentou matar o V.

[Aquillion]

Hrm...well this proves that V isn't Lawful Good. Now, does (s)he count as Neutral or Chaotic due to this...

While I certainly wouldn't argue that V is lawful, execute-on-the-spot behavior (even when it's against local laws) can be lawful under certain circumstances; for instance, if the character has an insanely rigid code of ethics and kills anyone who goes against it (many lawful evil / neutral evil "Knight Templar" villains and anti-heroes follow this trope.) Think the Punisher, Judge Dredd, etc. In general, an unwavering, honestly-held commitment to wiping out evil (or anything else) under all circumstances is lawful in nature; it just isn't generally lawful good.

Think Vhailor from PS:T, who is an undead construct animated by pure law, and is so lawful that he ceases to exist if you manage to convince him that law is false.

[LuisDantas]

Bom, Elan ou Hinjo confirmarem não é tanto problema assim. Além do que, francamente, é um cara que efetivamente tentou matar o V.

Have you forgotten that this is an English-language forum? :)

As for your point, I directly counter it. Neither Elan, nor Hinjo nor the Katos are THAT cold-blooded. Besides, V has no legal authority. He commited murder with no real attenuating circunstances, simple as that.

[Achilles]

HAHAHAHA! That's one way to end a subplot.

[Baywolfe]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature. This corrupts the memory of several dozen comics with a deflating sense of purposelessness.

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

You're not serious? If this was a movie, everyone would be on their feet cheering, laughing, and high-five'ing each other. You are right in one respect though, the title of "Trial of the Century" does show a cynical attitude towards a sub-plot that practically nobody cared about.

[Lamech]

This may be neutral but not evil (the reasons may be selfish but not evil). It saves countless lives, and most important it may save the universe.

Spoiler

Show

V understood that killing Kubota and getting rid of the body means that there is no one in the fleet capable of bringing him back. Even if the heir to house Kubota were bound to bringing him back, no cleric there is high-level enough, and the new lord of the house may decide it's in "his best interest" to remain with the fleet. Turning Kubota to ashes and blowing them away was the easiest way to accomplish that. The fleet and Hinjo are safe for now, and there is no more reason for the order to stay with the azurites.

In fact given Elan's nature they need to leave as soon as possible (the Kato's can keep a secret but Elan must be kept away from Hinjo). They may go back to their quest.

Capital punishement, his acts were clearly covered by the laws of the land, Therkla clearly said as so. If he were brought to a court with no tricks he would be killed tied up while not posing immediate bodily threat to anyone. The act is even sort of lawful* for it would follow the spirit of the law were it not for the tricks Kubota had. I don't want to discuss if capital punishement in itself is evil or just neutral. Suffice to say that in AC it isn't considered evil.

* ok, V is not a paladin or law enforcer so it's not lawful.

Spoiler

Show

I have a better option for V get Durkon, and tell Kubota, "your going to let Durkon use his magic to turn you something-of-your-choice, or I'll kill you." What he did was evil. Two really the problem is solved? All Kubota did was send Ninja and samuri to fight, and his heir could do the same. Or my personal favorite clone . And I do belive that Quar was the one who sent the monsters at everyone, and that while Kubota approved of it he wasn't who actually did it.

[CaptOfTheHarem]

While I most heartily congratulate V on his/her actions, I fear the consequences of his/her actions.

Now to the confusion created by this strip, V's alignment seems to be thrown out of a window. I have seen comments that put V's actions as: True Neutral, Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, some form of evil (primarily Neutral Evil), and Chaotic Good. Personally I see V as True Neutral, but perhaps leaning towards the chaotic side.

Apparently, the ambiguity of V's gender is rubbing off on other parts of her/his "character sheet"

[Rhuadin]

Noooo! All that expensive magical armor and defensive items! :(

[The Extinguisher]

All abord the slippery slope train. Destination, Face Heel Turn ville.

[Tyrrell]

n my opinion V is doing the best she can to save the world. She isn't going to let laws or niceties get in the way of doing what's best. Following the laws means Kubata would continue his evil ways and more would suffer, it means the Order of the stick would not be able to find Gerard's gate and stop Xykon taking over the world.

This is textbook Chaotic good; putting what's right above the dictates of society.

[Danukian]

Um... V.....

V...

That isn't nice.

In fact, V, I would put that down as murder.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING V?????????????

You have just gone through to the evil side!

STOP IT V!!!! Come back to the light!!!!!!!!

As seen in the last panel here, V walks proudly in the Dark Side!

[Kaihaku]

That was awesome. V is my hero...or would be if not for the whole going insane thing.

[Kaihaku]

Just a thought, in regards to the whole "Elan ratting out V" idea. I think there's a low level spell called alter memory. As the name suggests it allows you to alter 5 minutes of memory. V could use that to make elan remeber things differantly..
Not saying it will happen though

The ironic thing about that suggestion is that Alter Memory is a Bard spell. Elan might know it but V does not.

[Kroy]

That...OMGwas... V Friggin'... You.Awesome!rule!

[EvilElitest]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

Evil. What it entails for V varies, depending on if she was LG boarding LN, or LN. Personally, i think she is LN, so that will simply bump her into LE, or at least make it close. Doesn't really matter through, she is a wizard

I'd say either neutral good or chaotic good. V knew what needed to be done and simply did it. It wasn't following the letter of the law as Azure City would have it, but it was an appropriate action.

killing prisoners is evil, as it is murder

The right being: Kubota deserved it, he's a cretin and needed to die.

Not by a good standard. being evil isn't a crime, and part of good is mercy, forgivness, and compassion. He deserved to be punished certainly, and was a threat, but deserving to die implies that was the only way to handle the situation

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