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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    at least now we know nothing really important will happen involving him in that.
    Are you sure?

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    V will know. Ethics are what we do when no one is around.
    Actually, going by the old saying that is integrity. At least as I was taught it.


    Anyway, V was p. badass here. But I have to wonder if as many people would be cheering if Belkar had been the one to execute the helpless (but guilty) prisoner.

    I don't see Hinjo prosecuting V for this. In the bonus strips of War and XP there is a line from Shojo about Hinjo needing to lose his idealism to be an effective ruler for AC. I expect this will be a step towards that.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Oh, and again, Elan is Lawful Good. What is V going to do to make sure he doesn't talk? Hm?
    Did Elan change two alignments since Azure City? Since in this strip, he is clearly Chaotic Good.

    Edit: ninja'd!
    Last edited by Lokasenna; 2008-09-22 at 08:59 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Oh, and again, Elan is Lawful Good. What is V going to do to make sure he doesn't talk? Hm?
    Say it with me. Bard. Lawful?
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  5. - Top - End - #245
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Convenient for whom?

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    Say it with me. Bard. Lawful?
    Okay, Elan is Good. Same question.

    You still haven't answered how V will keep him quiet.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Heh! Classic comic humour.

    V expediated the judicial process -- Kabuto was a traitor during a war. Summary execution seems pretty reasonable to me. The entire population of the city is fleeing for their lives. On boats.

    Miko, or any of the paladins, would have done the same without hesitation.

    And in The Real World, it's been done, during war, by every army ever.

    Traitor == evil. Traitor == waste of space.

    (Although as an aside: Is it murder when you kill an orc? What about a half-orc? Hmmm!)

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    The act could easily fall into CG territory. There is a bad guy. This bad guy has recently been elaborating about how he's going to escape trial and almost certainly kill more innocents. You know disentegrate. Therefore, the right thing to do is to kill the bad guy now before more innocents die. We don't know what V's reasoning was, exactly, except that s/he wants to go back to saving the world, however, so whether or not this is a sign of V's growing insanity is anyone's guess.

  9. - Top - End - #249
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lowkey View Post
    Actually, going by the old saying that is integrity. At least as I was taught it.


    Anyway, V was p. badass here. But I have to wonder if as many people would be cheering if Belkar had been the one to execute the helpless (but guilty) prisoner.

    I don't see Hinjo prosecuting V for this. In the bonus strips of War and XP there is a line from Shojo about Hinjo needing to lose his idealism to be an effective ruler for AC. I expect this will be a step towards that.
    Loosen his idealism, not his morals. And you still don't know if this is exactly a good idea - the last time Zeus involved himself in human affairs, it resulted in the Trojan War. Think about it.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NENAD View Post
    The act could easily fall into CG territory. There is a bad guy. This bad guy has recently been elaborating about how he's going to escape trial and almost certainly kill more innocents. You know disentegrate. Therefore, the right thing to do is to kill the bad guy now before more innocents die. We don't know what V's reasoning was, exactly, except that s/he wants to go back to saving the world, however, so whether or not this is a sign of V's growing insanity is anyone's guess.
    Once more, how do you know this won't result in the death of MANY MORE INNOCENTS?

    See: Post-war Japan.

    And don't tell me he didn't have his own followers. What's V going to do? Kill each and every one?

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    EvilElitest's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    Depends on your ethical and moral code, now, doesn't it?
    D&D good and evil are objective
    from
    EE

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    By the way, you're really assuming V killed him out of justice. Just seems like V felt he was a distraction and killed him out of hand.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Hayes View Post
    A very good strip, but just something I couldn't help but notice: V was directly behind Elan. That means that when he landed on the boat, he would've been directly in Kubota's line of sight, and would've been spotted even if Kubota was looking at Elan and not paying that much attention. Surely he would've noticed an elf wizard in reddish robes with purple hair standing more or less in front of him and charging up a Disintegrate spell. Just makes me wonder why there was no indication in the comic of Kubota noticing anyone there, since logically I can't help but think Kubota should've seen V coming.
    Vaarsuvius was probably invisible. (Y'know, the normal spell.)
    Last edited by Emanick; 2008-09-22 at 09:09 PM.
    Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends

    Currently playing a level 18 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 8 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.

    My pronouns are he/his.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilElitest View Post
    D&D good and evil are objective
    from
    EE
    Just ask Roy, when he was threatened with being shipped off to TN and NG afterlife.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Okay, Elan is Good. Same question.
    You still haven't answered how V will keep him quiet.
    The End Justifies The Means.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Morgan Wick's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    ***SHAMELESS PLUG***
    My thoughts on this strip are here.
    Avatar courtesy azuyomi244.

    98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.

    Instead, I have a blog and web site: http://morganwick.com Tweeter: http://twitter.com/morganwick Webcomic (not really OOTS-related): http://morganwick.freehostia.com/webcomic

    Official self-appointed former commentator for The Sticks Awards.

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Mojique's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    So much better then an hungry shark.

    Thx, V!
    No end of the world until March 26, 1187, 3:10 PM (#571)

  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    The End Justifies The Means.
    Does it? Depends on what end you're aiming for, because the situation probably just got worse.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    EvilElitest's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eraniverse View Post
    Is it evil to kill a murderous wizard with his arms tied but his mouth free and bragging about how many non-somatic spells he has prepped? Is it evil to kill a ancient tyrant, who poses no physical threat but whose armies pillage and burn across the world as he gloats how his armies will scourge your homelands?
    1) has he cast any yet? If not, then yes it is evil. Just gag him
    2) Yes. He is still an unarmed prisoner, and killing prisoners is clearly evil according to D&D, as it is murder
    Is it evil to kill a prisoner whose abilities are in no way bound?
    If he isn't using them, yes. It might be a good idea to prevent him from using them, if he hasn't used them yet, then you don't have a justification.

    Kubota's threat was never physical (Therkla might disagree but meh). Kubota had just taken lethal action against V and many others. Minions count, guys.

    Chaotic Good. Albeit irritable from "sleep" deprivation.
    So? Weather he was threat or not isn't the issue. THe issue is that V has committed an evil action in murdering a defenseless unarmed man who had already surrendered.
    from
    EE

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    LuisDantas's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    By the way, you're really assuming V killed him out of justice. Just seems like V felt he was a distraction and killed him out of hand.
    That's probably true. But V knew Kubota to be scheming dangerous plots, and knew Elan wouldn't have him tied without a good reason. It counts as an educated guess IMO.

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Well that Gust of Wind was a waste of a level 2 spell, hasn't this elf ever heard of a broom?

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Here's another problem: they're going to assume Hinjo had him eliminated, and even hired the OOTS to be mercenaries. That's going to backlash on Hinjo in a big way.

    This is going to leave a huge mess for Hinjo to clean up, and probably a boon Kobuto's followers, who will appoint one of his aides to take his place.

    V may have just turned him into a martyr.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh, good Lord, yes!

    That felt good.

  24. - Top - End - #264
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    EvilElitest's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Just ask Roy, when he was threatened with being shipped off to TN and NG afterlife.
    which is based upon objective rules, your point? his actions were neutral, which can slide between two objectives

    I would not class it as a good act, but V's disintegration of Kabuto certainly seems practical. Kabuto was more than a minor inconvenience; he summoned imps and unleashed ninja and demons on Hinjo's people. He then openly boasted about how he could easily abuse and manipulate the legal system to ensure that justice could not be done, and could in fact use it to make the situation even worse for the good guys.
    Just because its practical doesn't mean its right. Evil is alwasy easier than good
    from
    EE

  25. - Top - End - #265
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilElitest View Post
    Just because its practical doesn't mean its right. Evil is alwasy easier than good
    from
    EE
    Let's not start quoting Yoda.

    But the issue is this: it was a rash act, not practical. Things like this never happen in a vacuum. It's not like Kotaku (I know that's not his name) didn't have followers, a faction, etc.

    Usually, what follows assassinations is an even worse situation. Can you name an assassination in which there was peace afterward?

  26. - Top - End - #266
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LuisDantas View Post
    That's probably true. But V knew Kubota to be scheming dangerous plots, and knew Elan wouldn't have him tied without a good reason. It counts as an educated guess IMO.
    But look at how V has been acting over the entire arc. Sure, he probably knew Kubota was a bad guy and all, but when you see the way he's been talking to his close friends, and his overall manner, I think it's pretty obvious that he wouldn't have cared about Kubota's intentions either way.

    I think a problem with this is that a lot of people are looking at this backwards. You should be trying to analyze V's character through his actions, rather than trying to analyze his actions through his character.
    [ There was a signature here. It's gone now. ]

  27. - Top - End - #267
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarah View Post
    But look at how V has been acting over the entire arc. Sure, he probably knew Kubota was a bad guy and all, but when you see the way he's been talking to his close friends, and his overall manner, I think it's pretty obvious that he wouldn't have cared about Kubota's intentions either way.

    I think a problem with this is that a lot of people are looking at this backwards. You should be trying to analyze V's character through his actions, rather than trying to analyze his actions through his character.
    Exactly. And I don't think V cares what chaos the assassination will cause.

    Reminds me of when Haley was chastised for thinking war wasn't that big a deal, just because she had a good chance of survival. (In wars, people die.)

  28. - Top - End - #268

    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphoid View Post

    Some who live deserve death and some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not so quick to deal out death either.
    We can in DnD.
    Last edited by Stupendous_Man; 2008-09-22 at 09:23 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Loosen his idealism, not his morals.
    Ideally he would like to bring this to trial, but ther is only one eyewitness, who himself was out for blood just a minute ago. It is literally ones word against the other, and either way it turns out Hinjo loses a valuable ally (either through conviction or just turning them against him) in exchange for the loss of a dangerous enemy. His morals are clear here, but the situation means he can't win no matter what. That's a loss of idealism.

    And you still don't know if this is exactly a good idea - the last time Zeus involved himself in human affairs, it resulted in the Trojan War. Think about it.
    I did. And you lost me. Could you please explain your analogy?

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    HalflingRogueGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Here's another problem: they're going to assume Hinjo had him eliminated
    No. Nobody's going to assume Hinjo arranged it. See, Hinjo's a paladin. If he planned the assassination of a rival, you're looking at an evil act and a gross violation of the code of conduct, which means he wouldn't be a paladin anymore. So all he has to do is display paladin abilities, and everyone will know he didn't.

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