Gestalt Build Challenge Returns V: Mage Slayers

[dspeyer]

There were some scary builds last week. Now let's kill them.

RETURN OF THE GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE V: MAGE SLAYERS

Create a character capable of hunting down and killing an optimized and genre-savvy arcanist. Explain the tactics you will use, if necessary.

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

We'll follow Duke of URL's old rules plus with a few minor changes.

For numeric attributes with progressions (such as BAB and saves) first determine at each level which progression the attribute follows, then count how many levels of each progression you have, then index into the progressions, then add them together. This means that a fighter 1 / sorceror 19 // wizard 20 has 1 level of good BAB and 19 of bad, giving +1 and +9 respectively for a total BAB of +10. Similarly, a character with 20 different marshal classes gets a base fort save of +12, not +40. It's not addressed in the gestalt or multiclassing rules, but this tends to make the most reasonable builds.

Disregard the clause about multiclassing penalties. We could never figure out how to apply it anyway.

If you are using multiple templates, you may only do so in a way which makes sense with what the template means. For example, you may only use one template that represents one parent being of a different race unless your base race is one where more-than-two parent reproduction is normal.

Well known cheese (pun-pun, omnificer, etc.) is banned.

Here are Duke of URL's old rules, for those who have forgotten them. Spoilered because they're long

Spoiler

Show

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:

• Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
• Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
• Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
• Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
• Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
• Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
• Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of:
  • Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge?
  • Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited?
  • Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective?
  • Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices
  • Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points
    • Using flaws (1 point each)
    • Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each)
    • Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each)
    • Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA)
    • Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each)
    • Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each)
    • Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item)
    • Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

[monty]

I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I should warn you - expect serious cheese. Regular casters are strong enough, but to take down an optimized caster won't be easy.

[Adumbration]

I call him... Bob.

Race: Aasimar
Class progression:
LA/Soulknife 1
Ranger 1/Soulknife 2
Ranger 2/Soulknife 3
Ranger 3/Soulknife 4
Ranger 4/Soulknife 5
Ranger 5/Soulbow 1
Ranger 6/Soulbow 2
Soulknife 6/Soulbow 3
Soulknife 7/Soulbow 4
Soulknife 8/Soulbow 5
Soulknife 9/Soulbow 6
Soulknife 10/Soulbow 7
Soulknife 11/Soulbow 8
Swordsage 1/Soulbow 9
Swordsage 2/Soulbow 10
Swordsage 4/Soulknife 6
Swordsage 5/Soulknife 7
Swordsage 6/Soulknife 8
Swordsage 7/Soulknife 9
Swordsage 8/Soulknife 10

His mind arrows are +5 Ghost Touch Collision Wounding Mind arrows of Seeking. In his left hand, he holds a Gem of True Seeing, and from his right spring the deadly bolts that slay his enemies. His AB is insane, due to getting his extremely buffed Wis, which also goes to damage. He gets so many attacks a round that it isn't even funny, from the Mongoose line of Sublime way, and boots of Speed. He gets almost all the possible archery feats there are.

[Rei_Jin]

Hrmmm... best I can come up with without breaking the game is...

Name: The Whisper in the night

Race: Whispergnome

Class build: Ninja19/Shadow Dancer1//Warlock20

Skills: Hide
Move Silently
Jump
Balance
Climb
Tumble
Use Magic Device

Feats:
1. Extra Silence
3. Silencing Strike
6. Weapon Finesse
9. Combat Reflexes
12. Dodge
15. Mobility
18. Dark Stalker

Stats:
STR: 10 16
DEX: 28 34
CON: 14 20
INT: 10 16
WIS: 12 18
CHA: 10 16

Invocations:
Least:
Baleful Utterance
Spiderwalk
Entropic Warding
Lesser:
Flee the Scene
Fell Flight
Voracious Dispelling
Greater:
Chilling Tentacles
Devouring Magic
Wall of Perilous Flame
Dark:
Dark Foresight
Retributive Invisibility
Impenetrable Barrier

Gear: +5 Tome of Dex, +5 Cloak of Resistance, +6 Belt of Magnificence, +8 Bracers of Armor, +5 Ring of Protection, +5 Amulet of Natural Armor, +5 Brilliant Energy Dagger



I don't think I need to explain the modus operandi for this character, do I?

[dspeyer]

I don't think I need to explain the modus operandi for this character, do I?

No, that's pretty clear. Divination spells might be a problem, though.

[dspeyer]

It's too bad the template doesn't have a level adjust, because I just realized a half-clay-golem with a deep hatred of batman wizards would be perfect here.

[Rei_Jin]

No, that's pretty clear. Divination spells might be a problem, though.

Well, he's nigh impossible to scry on, is constantly hiding as well as invisible, and can't be tracked by scent.

There's not a lot more I could do as Divinations are nigh impossible to block, unless I missed something very obvious.

[Kizara]

Well, he's nigh impossible to scry on, is constantly hiding as well as invisible, and can't be tracked by scent.

There's not a lot more I could do as Divinations are nigh impossible to block, unless I missed something very obvious.

Mind Blank?

[Rei_Jin]

Scroll+UMD = Whatever spell I need. I only have 23 ranks in it, plus I can take 10.

So, if there's a spell out there that helps me, I can use it.

[Fishy]

I call him... Bob.

You forgot your Antimagic Field. Swordsages and Soulknives can run around freely in an AMF, with their pseudo-magic weapons and teleportation and fake Time Stop, whereas mages can... Well, Batman their way out of it in some complicated way I don't recall offhand.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm in. It'll probably be a VoP Cleric of Mystra with a bunch of Swordsage levels.

[Kurald Galain]

And the obligatory... Basketweaver v2.0!!!

Commoner // Warrior
Commoner // Survivor
Commoner // Warrior
Commoner // Warrior
Commoner // Expert
Commoner // Expert
Commoner // Expert
Commoner // Samurai
Commoner // Samurai
Commoner // Samurai
Commoner // Monk
Commoner // Monk
Commoner // Monk
Commoner // Soulknife
Commoner // Soulknife
Commoner // Soulknife
Commoner // Healer
Commoner // Healer
Commoner // Healer
Commoner // Aristocrat

Race: Elan, Warforged, or anything else without an age limit. Using the crappiest classes known to man, he simply takes the feat Skill Focus: Craft: Basketweaving, and hopes to outlive the mage. Hey, not all mages are immortal!

(edit) AND of course the Chicken Infested feat, to keep himself company. Not to mention food. More feats include anything that generates fire, for the Kentucky factor; I think a bloodline + reserve combo can pull it off. If not, splotch warlock/1 for Leaps & Bounds (what fun!) and eldritch blurb.

[quillbreaker]

And the obligatory... Basketweaver v2.0!!!
Race: Elan, Warforged, or anything else without an age limit. Using the crappiest classes known to man, he simply takes the feat Skill Focus: Craft: Basketweaving, and hopes to outlive the mage. Hey, not all mages are immortal!

Why those particular classes with Commoner? Or am I taking the joke too seriously?

[Kizara]

Why those particular classes with Commoner? Or am I taking the joke too seriously?

Cause they are garbage.

[Chronos]

There's not a lot more I could do as Divinations are nigh impossible to block, unless I missed something very obvious.

The best protection against divinations I've found is the [Illithid] Slayer's Cerebral Blind ability, at the 6th level of the class (character level 10 or higher). That combined with Darkstalker and high stealth skills will protect you from everything short of divine knowledge (which a caster can potentially get via Contact Other Planes or Commune), epic magic, or Metafaculty (which isn't strictly speaking "casting").

Against Metafaculty or Contact Other Planes, though, you pretty much need epic yourself.

Note also that these guys aren't for an arena fight: Any combatant is really going to need some means of finding the wizard, and probably some form of planar travel (both within and across planes) to reach him.


Kurald, where are the chickens? Don't tell me you forgot the chickens.

[Douglas]

Note also that these guys aren't for an arena fight: Any combatant is really going to need some means of finding the wizard, and probably some form of planar travel (both within and across planes) to reach him.

In particular, every viable build is going to need some way to get at a paranoid wizard who has Mind Blank up 24/7, spends most of his time inside his Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, and uses Astral Projection whenever he needs to leave said MMM. There aren't very many ways to do that. In particular, I can only think of four: Metafaculty (provided you have seen the wizard somehow, probably via some sort of viewing-the-past power); Wish (transport the wizard to you, hope he fails the save); Miracle (powerful request, hope your deity likes you); and divine intervention. Good luck.

[lord_khaine]

i could imagine a psion/illithid slayer//swordsage could work here.

the psion part would get Metafaculty to find the wizard, temporal acceleration to get up besides him and activate a antipsionic field, and lastly swordsage powers to be able to kill him while under the field.

[ashmanonar]

i could imagine a psion/illithid slayer//swordsage could work here.

the psion part would get Metafaculty to find the wizard, temporal acceleration to get up besides him and activate a antipsionic field, and lastly swordsage powers to be able to kill him while under the field.

Quite a few Swordsage powers are supernatural. Quite a few stances as well. They wouldn't work in the anti-magic/psionic field.

[Eldariel]

May I just build a Wizard (or Cleric) Gish focused on Mage Slaying? 'cause that's really the only way. Although Psionic Gish isn't probably impossible - just very, very hard to make work.

ash: Swordsage would be fine. All you really need is to keep him in the anti-psionic field - all that takes is Stand Still, threatened area and some way to avoid 1s. And most of SS maneuvers are ex. There're a few su ones, but they're mostly Shadow Hand, and Desert Wind neither of which is really even optimal for killing a guy up close - they're all pretty much ranged. As a bonus, you can teleport while under APF since Shadow Blink et co. are Ex. But yea, Tiger Claw or Diamond Mind allows for finishing the mage off really fast.

[Chronos]

Quite a few Swordsage powers are supernatural. Quite a few stances as well. They wouldn't work in the anti-magic/psionic field.

The simple solution to that is to just not choose any of those.

[Draz74]

And the obligatory... Basketweaver v2.0!!!

Commoner // Warrior
Commoner // Survivor

Sorry, you don't meet the prerequisites for Survivor.

The best protection against divinations I've found is the [Illithid] Slayer's Cerebral Blind ability, at the 6th level of the class (character level 10 or higher). That combined with Darkstalker and high stealth skills will protect you from everything short of divine knowledge (which a caster can potentially get via Contact Other Planes or Commune), epic magic, or Metafaculty (which isn't strictly speaking "casting").

While this is all true, a Third Eye Conceal (120k cost) is a reasonable substitute for a 20th-level character who isn't a Slayer.

[monty]

Well, I'll see what I can do.

Race: Half Green Dragon Petal
Class: Warblade 4 / Marshal 1 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Master Thrower 5 / Warblade +1 / Invisible Blade 5 // LA +5 / Factotum 3 / Warlock 12
Stats (pre-racial): Str 8 Dex 28 (18) Con 14 (8) Int 20 (14) Wis 8 Cha 24 (14), put level points into Dex
Cheese points: 4 (items), 6 if you count contingencies. Note that this is only relevant against high-level, paranoid mages. For "everyday" combat, it's 0.

{table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feat(s)/Features
1 | Warblade 1 | LA 1 | Point Blank Shot
2 | Warblade 2 | LA 2 |
3 | Warblade 3| LA 3 | Precise Shot
4 | Warblade 4 | LA 4 |
5 | Marshal 1 | LA 5 |
6 | Bloodstorm Blade 1 | Factotum 1 | Weapon Focus (dagger)
7 | Bloodstorm Blade 2 | Factotum 2 |
8 | Bloodstorm Blade 3 | Warlock 1 | Power Attack
9 | Bloodstorm Blade 4 | Warlock 2 | Stormguard Warrior
10 | Master Thrower 1 | Warlock 3 | Palm Throw
11 | Master Thrower 2 | Warlock 4 |
12 | Master Thrower 3 | Warlock 5 | Far Shot, Trip Shot
13 | Master Thrower 4 | Warlock 6 |
14 | Master Thrower 5 | Warlock 7 | Weak Spot
15 | Warblade 5 | Warlock 8 | Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative
16 | Invisible Blade 1 | Warlock 9 |
17 | Invisible Blade 2 | Warlock 10 |
18 | Invisible Blade 3 | Warlock 11 | Craft Contingent Spell
19 | Invisible Blade 4 | Factotum 3 |
20 | Invisible Blade 5 | Warlock 12 [/table]
Level 20 numbers:
HP
BAB +19
Fort +9 Ref +10 Will +9
AC 32 (+11 Dex, +2 Size, +4 Natural, +5 Unnamed (Invisible Blade))

Equipment:
Belt of Battle
Scroll of Superior Invisibility
Scroll of Mind Blank
Scroll of Greater Teleport

I'll put in a new strategy, but keeping a similar build. See if you can find any problems with this.

Craft a contingent Mordenkainen's Disjunction on the condition "when I am in the same square as <name>." This should nicely strip all of his buffs and break a lot of his equipment.
Craft a contingent Antimagic Field on the condition "after Mordenkainen's Disjunction is cast." This keeps him from casting and killing you.

First, UMD the scrolls of Superior Invisibility and Mind Blank. This ensures that he won't know you're coming until it's too late. Start at least 125 feet away, so he can't find you with True Seeing. Motivate Dexterity with your minor aura.

Round 1
With at least +27 to initiative(+11 Dex, +5 Int, +7 Cha, +4 Imp Init), you're going to go first. Activate 2 charges on the Belt of Battle, using the standard action to UMD Greater Teleport into his square, activating both of your contingencies. Now the fun begins. Use your regular standard action to make a double trip attack with your dagger, thanks to Master Thrower's Palm Throw ability. With +33 to hit (+19 BAB, +11 Dex, +2 Size, +1 Weapon Focus) and +27 to your Trip check (+11 Dex, +5 Int, +7 Cha, +4 from Master Thrower), you're only going to be failing if you roll a 1 on the touch attack, and you get two chances. If you know he has no nonmagical armor (and you should really do your research before you try something like this), you can probably power attack for full and do even more damage.

Round 2
He's on the ground. When he gets up, you can make two attacks of opportunity. Now he can either attack you, and probably miss (and do pitiful damage even if he connects), or try to leave the AMF, giving you another two trip attempts. In either case, he's still in your square, so you can make a full attack with Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm on your action (8 attacks).

Round 3
More trip AoO's as applicable. On your turn, make a regular full attack for 8 touch attacks. Since you have +14 to hit before BAB, you can probably safely power attack for full. This gives you 1d2 (weapon) + 3d6 (sneak attack) + 38 (Power Attack) + 40 (Combat Rhythm) -1 (strength). If all attacks hit (about a 66% chance, assuming you hit on a 2), that averages 712 damage. If he's not dead, go back to round 2.

[JaxGaret]

Create a character capable of hunting down and killing an optimized and genre-savvy arcanist. Explain the tactics you will use, if necessary.

I may have missed it, but did the build challenge state anything about whether or not the build could itself be a spellcaster?

If not, that seems like a huge hole, and needs to be addressed.

[monty]

I may have missed it, but did the build challenge state anything about whether or not the build could itself be a spellcaster?

If not, that seems like a huge hole, and needs to be addressed.

I think people seem to be assuming that anyway, since none of the entries so far (although there's only three that I can see) have any full caster classes.

[JaxGaret]

I think people seem to be assuming that anyway, since none of the entries so far (although there's only three that I can see) have any full caster classes.

I know, but it still matters in terms of "cheese" points - what if a build has a minimal amount of casting? Or a pseudo-casting type of class, such as the Binder or Warlock? Are those no-nos?

[monty]

I know, but it still matters in terms of "cheese" points - what if a build has a minimal amount of casting? Or a pseudo-casting type of class, such as the Binder or Warlock? Are those no-nos?

For purposes of the competition, I obviously have no say. Personally, though, I'd be fine with those (notice I didn't call the second build, with full warlock progression, a caster). Also, since it's specifically to kill an arcane caster, I might accept divine magic.

[Talic]

Personally, I'd go with Minor Arcane classes would be ok, such as Assassin. Anything that gets 5th level spells or higher would likely be out.

I'd also see any divine caster as eligible. In fact, the build I'll be using will likely be a druid of some form... Or an undead. Not sure which. Heck, maybe both.

[BobVosh]

Surprise Round
10 ranged touch attacks (4 base +1 from Cunning Surge x2 from Palm Throw) at +31 (+19 BAB, +10 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Weapon Focus) using Combat Rhythm from Stormguard Warrior - Bloodstorm Blade's Thunderous Throw ability lets you treat ranged attacks as melee

Round 1
Roll for initiative. If you're using Motivate Dexterity, you have an initiative bonus of +26 (+10 Dex, +6 Int, +6 Cha, +4 Imp. Init). So let's assume you win, since you probably will (they need a +5 modifier just to tie you on a 20 vs 1).
Another 10 ranged touch attacks, thanks to Master Thrower's Weak Spot. If their flat-footed touch AC is less than 14 (not unreasonable, especially since they don't know you're there and therefore don't have all their buffs up). you can power attack for full and hit on a 2. This gives you 10 attacks for 1d3 + 5d6 (Invisible Blade sneak attack) + 50 (Combat Rhythm) + 38 (Power Attack). If all hit (about a 77% chance), that's an average of 1075 damage. If they're somehow not dead yet, you get to make a trip attempt with each successful attack at +26 (Dex+Int+Cha+4).

Round 2
Hopefully it doesn't last this long. If it does, repeat previous step, but without the Cunning Surge (no more Inspiration) or Combat Rhythm (one of you won't survive for a third round, so it'd be a waste).

Foresight+Greater Celerity+Time Stop
Forsight allows him to act in the surprise round, and isn't flat footed for sneak attacks. Greater Celerity allows him to, you know, win.
Also if you do a full attack you can't hide afterwards.

Although I have no clue what bloodstorm blade does. Or even the book O.o

If they somehow manage to get a spell off, you have defenses. Greater Invisibility and hide, naturally, are going to make it hard to target you, and you have spell resistance 15+level. And since you have immunity to acid, a good number of conjurations are useless against you.

Have you seen a level 20 mage without arcane sight + true seeing on 24/7?
Lots of ways around SR and immunity to acid. Since all he has to do is live until tommorrow to take care of you the next day he should be fine.

[Wolfpack]

Surprise Round
10 ranged touch attacks (4 base +1 from Cunning Surge x2 from Palm Throw) at +31 (+19 BAB, +10 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Weapon Focus) using Combat Rhythm from Stormguard Warrior - Bloodstorm Blade's Thunderous Throw ability lets you treat ranged attacks as melee

Primary problem with your build: Surprise round is a standard action only, so no full attack, so you actually only get one single attack. Maybe two or three if you burn Inspiration.

Secondary problem: Any caster worth a damn that will have true-seeing, or blindsight up all the time, also the usual Foresight stuff for your "surprise round" and of course, he's flying and invisible too, so you never even found him.

[Frosty]

The important thing is to have an item that activates Anti-Magic Field and some Scrolls of Timestop, or be a Cleric with the Trickery and Magic domains. You need to cast Timestop outside of the Wizard's True Seeing range. Use the RUN option to get to the Wizard, and then UMD/cast the AMF. Timestop ends, and you're next to the wizard, and he cant cast. He is then screwed. Stand Still and Combat Reflexes means he can't get away at all., and there's no way you're missing a Wizard in an AMF. He's probably only got like 14 AC max unless he has a chain shirt in which case he *might* have 18 AC.

Proceed to full-attack the Wizard until he dies. Or Grapple the Wizard until he dies.