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Thread: Invisible Blade weapons question
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2008-10-01, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Invisible Blade weapons question
I'm building an Invisible Blade, which are required to use daggers or dagger-like weapons. I built the character using Elven Lightblades out of Complete Adventurer. They have 1d6 as their damage die and a threat range of 18-20, as well as a description that says they are roughly shortsword sized with the weight and feel of a dagger. I haven't cleared this weapon choice with the DM yet, but I was wanting to find out if this seems like a reasonable idea first.
Also, can anyone think of other dagger-like weapons, aside from the kukri, that have a high crit range?Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.
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2008-10-01, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Kukri's about it, but Elven Lightblade is totally reasonable.
Note that you're probably going to get a lot of people here who recommend strongly against IB, and Feinting in general. ALSO note that a Psionic Tattoo of Conceal Thoughts will give you a massive bonus on your Bluff check to feint for an hour, and can actually make the whole technique highly effective. It's a 1st level power, so the tattoo only costs 50 gp and can be used by any character whether psionic or not.Last edited by sonofzeal; 2008-10-01 at 11:38 AM.
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2008-10-01, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
The elven lightblade is a lot closer to a fencing foil than it is to a dagger. Also worth noting - the Invisible Blade PrC is in the same book that introduced the elven weapons, but does not include them in the IB's prerequisites or abilities. So don't be surprised if your DM rules them out. Be prepared to pick up a pair of kukris instead.
I second ignoring the people that will bash IB. A lot of posters here care more about optimizing (ie power-gaming) than they do about RP.
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2008-10-01, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
It's not just that. You can get exactly the same RP out of Swordsages, Swashbucklers, or dexterous Fighters if you wished. What I'm saying is that, properly handled, the class can actually hold its own. ToB would make it BETTER of course, but a properly built IB can be a terrifying and lethal force on the battlefield.
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2008-10-01, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
I think that using the Elvish Lightblades is probably pushing it, but if you spin a good RP case to your DM, it'll work.
As for other weapons... The Arms and Equipment Guide is your friend
-The Sapara (basically, a smaller khopesh): deals 1d6, 19-20/x2, can trip, is an exotic weapon.
-The Triple Dagger: just like a dagger, but can be used to disarm people w/ a +3. Is an exotic weapon.
I really like using a pair of daggers, one of which is a triple dagger, just so you can disarm then slice-and-dice them into cubes.
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All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2008-10-01, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
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2008-10-01, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Well, as for Feinting, in 2 levels I'll be able to feint as a free action each round with a 38 (taking 10 +28) with two (hopefully) elven lightblades doing 1d6+1+1d6(fire)+1d6(cold)+1d6(electric)+5d6(sneak att.) with a crit range of 15-20. So, I'm pretty concerned about keeping the (original) crit range of 18-20, which the kukri have, but with a painful downgrade in damage die.
Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.
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2008-10-01, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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2008-10-01, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
There's a feat from Drow of the Underdark to get your full-round-sneak goodness back, but most DMs I know have been willing to ignore the whole errata in the first place. It's a stupid rule that doesn't fix any problems and only nerfs the few characters who actually invest the time and class levels to making their Feint decent.
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2008-10-01, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Pathfinder's got a weapon called a "starknife", which is my new favorite "weapon that shouldn't really work if we had physics, but it's neat so let's keep it" weapon. 1d4 damage (1d3 small), 20/x4 crit.
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2008-10-01, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
*googles*
....oh dear lord. Uh, that's certainly "special" all right. Tell you what, why not use those stats but call it, oh I don't know.... deerhorn daggers? Real weapons, actually effective in a fight, just as badass, and makes sense for those stats.
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2008-10-01, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Because starknives (is that the correct plural?) are more awesome?
-argus
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2008-10-01, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
I suggest that you just use a dagger, because you can throw it. You can't throw a kukri or similar weapons. Sneak Attack isn't multiplied by a critical hit, so Keen effects offer very little additional damage.
Here is the invisible blade that the author intended. For some bizarre reason, the WotC editors chopped it down to 5 levels.
If you use the 5 level RAW version, as others have mentioned it is nerfed it in the errata, but fixed by the Surprising Riposte feat from Drow of the Underdark.
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2008-10-01, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-01, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
More awesome than a weapon with five cutting edges and four major spikes?
I mean, the thing is practically Spikes of Villainy incarnate.
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2008-10-01, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Well, any damage loss is to be avoided, but yeah.
Huh, I didn't know about the errata, but I had assumed that it operated like that. However, I have the skill trick to make an opponent lose all AoO against me when I feint and will be taking the skill trick to feint everyone that can see me once per combat. So, I'm thinking that feint will serve me well.
[edit] Don't have keen; have improved crit. I know it's usually the poorer choice, but I didn't feel like paying to enchant a bandoleer of "knives" with a +2 [/edit]Last edited by graymachine; 2008-10-01 at 01:24 PM.
Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.
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2008-10-01, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2008-10-01, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Ah. Well, physics-defying is cool too, I just wish the starknife didn't remind me so much of Naruto.
Yay for links. =3
Back on topic, you're right that Keen is rather a waste here... except that there's a feat that lets you add Sneak every time that you score a crit. Less useful for you, since with Feinting you have a reliable method of manufacturing Sneaks, but still worth thinking about.
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2008-10-01, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
First, yay Maiev! Love the Warden weaponry.
Second.... ewwww I didn't realize Naruto had something like that. I feel sad now.
Third, yeah... on topic, I still think an Invisible Blade that used a dagger and a triple dagger could be really fun. Esp from the idea that he was a pit fighter, since disarming his opponent in the pit would be brutal.
-argus
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2008-10-01, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Guess what's worse?
The starknife has a range increment.Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2008-10-01, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2008-10-01, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Is it a blunder to try and rely on alchemy? I'm using a bandoleer of "knives" because my +1d6(fire), +1d6(cold), +1d6(electric) is coming from the triple weapon capsules out of CoA, which take a full round to refill after one use. With my alchemy skill they are easy and cheap to make, effectively saving me from paying for a +4 enchantment on two weapons. I used my savings to also put Thundering on my first to "knives."
Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.
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2008-10-01, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-01, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.
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2008-10-01, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Wow, that starknife made me flashback to the Glaive in the movie Krull.
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2008-10-01, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
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2008-10-01, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
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2008-10-01, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
One thing I did for a rogue player with throwing knives* once was give him a bandolier that essentially functioned as a bow would for an archer. I've also spoke of doing similar with gloves.
You may wish to ask your DM to do the same.
* He actually loathed ranged combat and had the ranged combat flaw since I took over from a DM who allowed them, but was scared to freakin' death of getting within 5 feet on anyone to stab them unless he was stealthed while the other 5 people in the party were wailing on the same guy. My preference for brawls in the open daylight with lots of individual targets to take on at a given time kind of ruined that for him.
One meaning for glaive is apparently 'blade', which is the justification for 'Twin Glaives of Azzinoth':
Really, I think it's just that half the people don't bother to look up what a glaive IS.
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2008-10-01, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Back on topic, I really don't see elven thinblades working on a bandoleer. If they're the size of a shortsword, they're roughly 24-30 inches long.
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2008-10-01, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Invisible Blade weapons question
Well, if your DM is hand waving away the time it takes to make alchemical items, and the cost is negligible, then I'd say no. Load up 20 different daggers, each with different alchemical properties. Take Quickdraw. Use dagger, drop, repeat.
In the long run though it will be cheaper to just invest in two good magical daggers. But I don't know how long your campaign is running for.