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Thread: 4e Spellbook Question
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2008-10-01, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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4e Spellbook Question
So, I want to build a Swordmage/Wizard, and I have a question about spellbooks. Can you (assuming after you have taken Adept power, which lets you have a daily from your second class) use Expanded Spellbook along with Student of Swordmagic? How would this work?
Assuming it does work, would you:
A) Learn a Wizard daily attack spell for every level that you know a daily attack spell?
B) Learn a Wizard daily attack spell for only the level that your swapped power is from?
I think A may be supported by the lack of the phrase "wizard attack spell" before the phrase "every level that you know" in the first instance appearing within the text for expanded spellbook.
Also, even if B is true, does that mean that if you retrain that spell, you effective gain two more spells so long as the new spells are at a different level than the one retrained? You would lose the spell retrained, but you would also gain a level of daily wizard attack spells (here it specifically states wizard, by the way), which would allow you to learn one extra spell (as per expanded spellbook).
Originally Posted by Player's Handbook, p. 158
Originally Posted by Forgotten Realms Player's Guide p.136
Originally Posted by Player's Handbook, p. 195Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2008-10-01, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
I'd say that if you use a power-swap feat to replace a Swordmage power with a Wizard power, you'd replace all of the Daily or Utility powers from the swapped level of Swordmage with the powers from the same level of Wizard.
Also, the Expanded Spellbook text seems to state that if you have Expanded Spellbook, you add a bonus Wizard spell to every level of Daily or Utility Wizard spells you know... so a Swordmage/Wizard with Student of Sword Magic and Expanded Spellbook would gain 2 Daily spells or 2 Utility spells whenever he gains a level, but if he switches a Swordmage power out for a Wizard power, he trades in both of his Swordmage powers of that level for three Wizard powers of that same level.
For example, at level 15, he trades in Acid For Blood and Inferno's Sword for Prismatic Beams, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, and Blast of Cold.Last edited by Mando Knight; 2008-10-01 at 11:20 PM.
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2008-10-01, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2008-10-01, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Houston, TX
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
The Wizard's Spellbook is a class feature which you technically do not gain from multi-classing to a wizard. So you would actually only gain 1 Daily/Utility from power swap feats, not 2 as a normal wizard would, so if you take the Expanded Spellbook, you would then be allowed to take the 2 Daily/Utility powers as normal.
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2008-10-01, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Heh. I edited my first post with that info while you were posting...
EDIT: Ah, NPC Mook. Thanks for catching that. I'd forgotten that only "proper" Wizards (Wizard @ level 1 without MC feat) gain the benefit from the Spellbook class feature. In that case, a class with a spellbook multi-ing into a non-spellbook class will have to trade out both of its powers for one of the other class's, and a Swordmage or Wizard multi-ing into the other will have to take either Expanded Spellbook (Swordmage-Wizard) or Student of Sword Magic (Wizard-Swordmage) in order to get 2 powers for 2 powers...Last edited by Mando Knight; 2008-10-01 at 11:26 PM.
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2008-10-01, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
-
2008-10-01, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- UTC -6
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2008-10-01, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Houston, TX
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
I think you misread my post, I'm saying since you are multiclassing into Wizard through Arcane Initiate, you would only gain a single Daily/Utility Wizard power through Power-Swap feats.
If you take Student of Swordmagic, along with Expanded spellbook, which technically increases the number of Daily/Utilities of that level you can take by 1. So using Acolyte Power, and Adept Power would normally yield only gaining 1 power form you wizard class, if you have Expanded Spellbook you now would gain 2 when you swap powers.Last edited by NPCMook; 2008-10-01 at 11:30 PM.
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2008-10-01, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
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2008-10-01, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
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- Houston, TX
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Yes, for every Daily and Utility power you would gain 2 powers of that level since you have Expanded Spellbook
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2008-10-01, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 4e Spellbook Question
Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"
-
2008-10-01, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Houston, TX
- Gender
Re: 4e Spellbook Question
No, when you retrain you are replacing all the spells of that level, using Adept Power you take 2 level 9 dailies from your wizard class, and later on retrain them a higher level, but still regularly use one of the level 9 Dailies, you would have to retrain both level 9 dailies for the higher level ones