[3.5] Prestige Classes you wish were playable.

[Kaihaku]

So, what Prestige Classes have you always wanted to play but been prevented from due to poor mechanics or design flaws?

Master of the Unseen Hand: I love the flavor and style of a telekinetic battler but the class suffers from three major flaws. 1. Casters are really the only viable option to meet the Telekinesis requirement in most campaigns. 2. Casters who take the class end up significantly worse for it. 3. The abilities provided by the class are flavorful but they are not potent enough to be worthwhile.

Forsaker: This is older material from 3e but this magic hating class was much more flavorful and, at least I thought, interesting of a design than the 3.5 Occult Slayer. Unfortunately, for forsaking magic altogether the class did not receive enough benefits to keep on level with other melee much less casters. Of course, something cheesy like a Monk->Forsaker w/ Vow of Poverty is another matter at least at low levels but still...

Wayfarer Guide: I know this was probably meant to be an NPC class to allow for a system of teleporting or what not, but I rather enjoyed the class and if it had not hindered casting progression I probably would have tried fielding it. As it is, it weakens a caster for little benefit.

Maybe I'll post some others later, how about you?

[Tempest Fennac]

Considering the Wayfarer Guide requirements, isn't taking just 1 level practical? If I can find which book it's in, I'll check the other class levels (I only know the first 2 from Crystal Keep).

EDIT: I know what you mean about the 3rd level not being that worthwhile.

[jcsw]

Mindbender. I know first level is a good dip, but I wish the rest of it were playable.

[Teron]

The osteomancer and the flux adept from Dragon are conceptually really cool (spellcasters who manipulate bones and their own glands, respectively) and get some nifty abilities, but most of them aren't very useful, and they don't remotely make up for the halved spellcasting progression - yet they both require too much spellcasting ability to enter to be used in a viable gish build, despite class features half-arsedly geared to that (especially the osteomancer -half the feature list consists of DR-piercing properties for bone spurs that act as spiked gauntlets). While I haven't seen the Dragon Compendium versions, I've heard they still have half spellcasting progression and I simply can't comprehend who thought that was a good idea, since the worthlessness of such classes was well known by the time the book was put together.

Incidentally, there's another class I've been contemplating regretfully of late... and I'd like to know who gave the arcane duelist wizard BAB so I could beat them over the head with a stack of books.

[Smeggedoff]

Shifter, Master of Many Forms just doesn't measure up imo

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Shifter, Master of Many Forms just doesn't measure up imo

MoMF does just fine as long as you don't compare it to a full Druid.

Really, every Wizard PrC that loses caster levels but has good flavor needs a revamp, other than the Malconvoker(which is just awesome).

[Kaihaku]

Well...there are also Prestige Classes which have 'Evil' alignment requirements removing them as choices in many campaigns.

Assassin: Why couldn't it be "non-good" or even have no alignment penalty? There are no Lawful Neutral dutiful Assassins following the orders of their liege? There are no Good characters who use stealthy methods to oppose their enemies? Please don't tell me that that poison is 'evil'...and that's the reason.

Ur-Priest: Evil? Why? There are Evil gods in almost every Dungeons and Dragons setting. Why does rebelling against the divine come with an "Evil" qualifier? Shouldn't it be "Chaos" instead? Or even better, how about no alignment requirement leaving it open for a character to come to see the divine as the target of their ire for whatever reason; there are plenty of justifiable ones that still fit a 'good' character. I know, I've played a few of those perspectives out as a Mystic (Dragonlance).

Then there are racial prestige classes that are...just what?

Arcane Archer: Elves and Half-elves only, what? Why? Why can't any arcane spellcaster who knows how to use a bow go for it? That's in addition to problems with the mechanics of the class.

Dwarven Defender: Okay, yes, Dwarves are stalwart and that's really cool. But why is this class for Dwarves only? Why can't a person of any race become a defensive specialist?

[Tempest Fennac]

I know what you mean about those issues. (In regards to Assassins, I would have thought that the lack of skill points would have been the biggest problem). With Ur-Priests, the idea of stealing Divine energy could be seen as a huge crime against nature, but I'd have said Chaotic would fit better for that.

[Tokiko Mima]

Well...there are also Prestige Classes which have 'Evil' alignment requirements removing them as choices in many campaigns.

Assassin: Why couldn't it be "non-good" or even have no alignment penalty? There are no Lawful Neutral dutiful Assassins following the orders of their liege? There are no Good characters who use stealthy methods to oppose their enemies? Please don't tell me that that poison is 'evil'...and that's the reason.

Be an Avenger instead! It's EXACTLY what you're looking for.

*shoos away Harvey Birdman fans*

Personally, I'd like to see an Enlightened Spirit PrC that advances invocations, and Invocations flavored for good-aligned Warlocks. It would be nice to be able to point to a good aligned Warlock PrC that doesn't completely suck.

[bosssmiley]

The Planescape faction prestige classes from "Planar Handbook". Some of them are fun, but almost all are either sub-optimal, or outright weaksauce.

[Dhavaer]

Magelord: due to poorly thought-out requirements, it can't be completed pre-epic.

[Irreverent Fool]

Mindbender. I know first level is a good dip, but I wish the rest of it were playable.

Mindbender is playable if your DM doesn't take away your toys every time you eternal charm something...

[BobVosh]

So, what Prestige Classes have you always wanted to play but been prevented from due to poor mechanics or design flaws?

Master of the Unseen Hand: I love the flavor and style of a telekinetic battler but the class suffers from three major flaws. 1. Casters are really the only viable option to meet the Telekinesis requirement in most campaigns. 2. Casters who take the class end up significantly worse for it. 3. The abilities provided by the class are flavorful but they are not potent enough to be worthwhile.

I have always wanted to be a blue slaad/MotUH. It would be epically awesome.

Bear Warrior. I really like the shaman/naturistic barbarian, but it just takes too much away from the other potentials like frenzy beserker.

Can't really remember the name...Alien something or other from the Complete Arcane.

[Tempest Fennac]

Are you thinking of Alienists, Bob? They sound interresting, but most of their abilities appear to be cancelled out by additional penalties. Excluding the fluff, are there honestly any differences between Avengers and Assassins?

[Saph]

Master of Many Forms: It would be a great class except that the entire ten levels of the PrC are all made obsolete by a single spell (Shapechange). If they just made it as good as Shapechange it would be okay, but as things are a straight-classed Druid at high levels is actually a better shapechanger than the MoMF, which is just wrong.

Hierophant: Nice idea, shame about the total loss of caster levels.

Arcane Archer: Really nice idea, except they forgot that bow and arrow enhancement bonuses don't stack in 3.5, making the PrC's primary feature totally useless. If you let the AA's enhancement bonus stack and gave it 1/2 spellcasting progression, it would be awesome.

Dwarven Defender: High-level combats are all about mobility. A class that revolves around the enemy coming to you? Not really going to work. The class would work much better if they just got rid of the movement restrictions completely.

- Saph

[BobVosh]

Are you thinking of Alienists, Bob? They sound interresting, but most of their abilities appear to be cancelled out by additional penalties. Excluding the fluff, are there honestly any differences between Avengers and Assassins?

Probably, the one that had to had contact with another plane. I think it is alienist. Like I said, I wish they were playable. But they ain't.

Also I wish green star adept went the other way around granting fighters magic powers rather than making wizards more physical. Give em a spell progression that is decent. Although even then they would only be playable in games where you build the character with the levels already.

[Dhavaer]

Excluding the fluff, are there honestly any differences between Avengers and Assassins?

Nope. That's kind of the point, I think.

[Tempest Fennac]

Aren't Hierophants okay for Epic levels? (Admittedly, that is a huge problem for most players due to most games not getting to that point.) I've never tried the class and I'm not that good at balancing things, but I'm guessing that the negatives outweigh the Alienist's bonuses, right? Wouldn;t just removing Assassin's alignment restrictions be easier and more logical?

[Kaihaku]

Aren't Hierophants okay for Epic levels? (Admittedly, that is a huge problem for most players due to most games not getting to that point.)

In Epic, great even. But, as was said, the lack of spell progression in normal levels is...eh. Surely there were other ways to make it different from Archmage than removing spell progression?

[Irreverent Fool]

Master of Many Forms: It would be a great class except that the entire ten levels of the PrC are all made obsolete by a single spell (Shapechange). If they just made it as good as Shapechange it would be okay, but as things are a straight-classed Druid at high levels is actually a better shapechanger than the MoMF, which is just wrong.

MoMF is worth it if you don't spring to life as a character able to cast Shapechange. The power ramps up a bit faster... or seems to until you notice how many spells you're losing.

You know what, I'm just going to stop talking.

[Cheesegear]

Scar Enforcer: Possibly one of the coolest sounding classes there is, and the 'fluff' behind it isn't too bad either. The bad points, are, obviously, that you have to be a Half-Elf.
You get Favoured Enemy, which is nice...Except you're forced to choose Elves and Humans. You also get Smite Enemy...Which, again, only works on Elves or Humans.
You get a pretty poor Sneak Attack (+3d6 at lvl 10), and the only way to boost this, is to start out as a rogue. Which is nice for the free Disguise Self and HiPS. If it weren't for the fact that a Scar Enforcer also gets +Spellcaster Levels...Which a rogue doesn't have.
They also only get 3/4 BAB. They do have a decent Will save though.

They get a big 'Meh.' from me. It's like it wants to do everything at once...Like a Bard...But, worse.

[Epinephrine]

Beastmaster - it's basically a 1 level dip for a boosted animal companion. It'd be nice if it could be played the way it was intended.

Combat trapper - somewhat playable if you get into it early, but the DCs just aren't high enough and the effects are too small. Not useless, but not a great class.

Peregrine runner - interesting idea, but gaining an animal companion from a PrC that only scales with the PrC makes for a really vulnerable AC.

[Fishy]

I really wish Arcane Trickster worked. I know we have Beguilers and Unseen Seers and Greater Mage Hand now, but it's just not the same.

[Guchalez]

Scar Enforcer: Possibly one of the coolest sounding classes there is, and the 'fluff' behind it isn't too bad either. The bad points, are, obviously, that you have to be a Half-Elf.
You get Favoured Enemy, which is nice...Except you're forced to choose Elves and Humans. You also get Smite Enemy...Which, again, only works on Elves or Humans.
You get a pretty poor Sneak Attack (+3d6 at lvl 10), and the only way to boost this, is to start out as a rogue.

I haven't read the class, but it seems that it would make a nice assasin:D
As for the avenger it seems to have more role playing restrictions than a supposedly good aligned assasin... I mean, how do you avenge someone if you are dungeon craling for some loot, it would make you character useful only if you're defending your country... I'd just take the aligment restrictions away... Isn't there a class in the Book of Exalted Deeds that does that?

I always wanted to play an aristocrat for role purposes and I think it would be nice to use it in a role based campaign.

[Saph]

MoMF is worth it if you don't spring to life as a character able to cast Shapechange. The power ramps up a bit faster... or seems to until you notice how many spells you're losing.

You know what, I'm just going to stop talking.

I'd actually be fine with losing spellcasting, except for the fact that once Druids hit level 17, your MoMF, who's sacrificed everything else to boost his shapechanging ability, is now a worse shapechanger than the guy who's also a full caster.

It works OK if your game never gets that far, but it's still kind of annoying. Never getting Supernatural abilities hurts, too.

- Saph

[Curmudgeon]

The Hierophant is one of the core PrCs, but it's just lame. It's the D&D equivalent of saying "I'm retired now." Really, you get to where you can cast 7th level spells -- and then just stop. Give it half caster progression and it just might be worth considering for the flavorful special abilities.

[Riffington]

Probably, the one that had to had contact with another plane. I think it is alienist. Like I said, I wish they were playable. But they ain't.

I assure you they are playable. I've had one in 2 campaigns, and they were fun both times.

[Starbuck_II]

Psionic ones:
MetaMind: Read the fluff, you are supposed to be hasve more power in psionics than a straight psion, but you end up with less.
Even the level 10 cap ability doesn't make it up (if more than 1/day maybe).

Flayerspawn Psychic: The prereqs alone. How many power points do you channel into a Mind blast (it doesn't say!)? Is it just flavor text?
Why even use game mechanic terms like power points if it doesn't mean them. Why not say psychic energy or something.

Ectopic Adept: The class was made before/after they nerfed Astral Constructs (in the same book) to 1 at a time. They class just removes that limitation.
Why not be innovative and not nerf Astral Constructs...
Plus, Ectopic Forms suck as they no menu options.

[Xenogears]

Force Mage Adept. A mage that specializes in magic missile. Would be good if it actually increased the power of magic missile significantly. Basically in the end you get two extra missiles, the ability to overcome the shield spell, and you can turn your magic missiles into other energy types (like fire). Even for a five level PrC it just sucks. I think you only lose 1 caster level though.

Osteomancer would be just plain awesome if you could get into it without focusing on casting. Don't actually remember the requirements but the class abilities are just plain awesome. You can control someone (and even make them attack someone ungodly powerful although you have to be within 30ft) and your final ability just melts their skeleton. Even if they make the save they take 10d6. Only usable once per day though. Also you become Wolverine halfway through (Adementium bones).

[wadledo]

99% of all psionic PrC's:
Almost nothing has full manifesting levels.
Do you know how annoying that is, Wizards?
You have 4+ PrC's in the Players handbook that have full spellcasting, why can't you have the same for psionics?