No. Oh, no. Nooooooo!

[Adumbration]

Player's Handbook II, page 50. Monk character themes. All I can ask? Why? Why would anyone do that? What was the author thinking?! Take a good look at the "Stylist" fighters. And don't forget to look at how monks who fight with staffs refer to it as their "dragon pole" or "flowing water staff."

Tell me the whole thing is a joke. Please.

Seriously, try and imagine saying all those things listed there in a gaming table. "Dragon Claw!" signature attack my ***... I want to bash my head against the table and laugh while at it.

[LibraryOgre]

Rice Paper Walk

Footpaddin'

It's a joke that began in the PH.

[Tempest Fennac]

I wondered whether the whole book was a joke; as well as the writer's tendancy to class Wis as more important to Favoured Souls then Cha, they refered to nobles paying low-level Wizards to cast Disguise Self on them for parties, and a lot of the quick-character creation "advice" was far from optimal.

[TakeV]

Far from optimal, yes.
But fun as hell.

[Ascension]

I don't know, I can think of practical applications for renaming class features.

For example, it's a lot easier to convince your DM to let you play a high-Int barbarian in a d20 Modern game if you tell him that you're trying to build your character around NERD RAEG!

And if all your bard's Perform ranks are in Dance or Oratory or something it's just plain silly to talk about his/her bardic "music."

And your "oddly lucky" material-eschewing sorcerer who doesn't realize he's capable of casting spells certainly wouldn't refer to any of his "lucky breaks" as magic.

I'm only being halfway facetious.

[Magnor Criol]

...they refered to nobles paying low-level Wizards to cast Disguise Self on them for parties

Why is this so strange? They're nobles. They like to spend lonts of money on lavish, impractical things. WHat better way to ensure an amazing costume for a party than magic like Disguise Self?

and a lot of the quick-character creation "advice" was far from optimal.

Not everyone likes to play "optimal" characters. What's fun is fun. Now, whether the ones they offered are actually fun...well, that's another story. Not all of them are.

[monty]

Why is this so strange? They're nobles. They like to spend lonts of money on lavish, impractical things. WHat better way to ensure an amazing costume for a party than magic like Disguise Self?

Disguise Self. Self. This exact thing was made fun of in one of the OotS comics.

[JaxGaret]

Disguise Self. Self. This exact thing was made fun of in one of the OotS comics.

Beat me to it, darn you.

[MeklorIlavator]

Why is this so strange? They're nobles. They like to spend lonts of money on lavish, impractical things. WHat better way to ensure an amazing costume for a party than magic like Disguise Self?

Because the duration is 10 min/level. Don't know about you, but most parties tend to last more than 10-40 minutes.
Wow, completely missed the range of the spell.

Not everyone likes to play "optimal" characters. What's fun is fun. Now, whether the ones they offered are actually fun...well, that's another story. Not all of them are.

The thing is, they present them as if they're optimal, so they're deliberately lying to you, like how even as late as the Complete Mage they seem to be saying "Direct Damage is the best thing for your wizard to do".

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The thing is, they present them as if they're optimal, so they're deliberately lying to you, like how even as late as the Complete Mage they seem to be saying "Direct Damage is the best thing for your wizard to do".

Like how they say the best schools for an Illusionist to drop are Conjuration and Transmutation? Or that Weapon Focus is useful in almost every book?

[Tempest Fennac]

I suppose dropping Conjuration and Transmutation makes sense froma fluff perspective if you're an Illusionist, but as you said, it's a terrible choice as far as optimisation goes. I'd assume that there was normally a link between characters being reasonably effective and being fun to play as in most cases. Using illusion spells for parties isn't odd, but the fact that WotC apparently don't know how one of their most basic spells works is rather concerning.

EDIT: It was the DMG 2 which made the Disguise Self comment (sotty about the mix-up).

[Magnor Criol]

Disguise Self. Self.

Oy. Completely missed the key word, right in the title. Facepalm.

And I didn't realize they were trying to present the builds as optimized. I don't own a copy of PH2 myself, just look at a friend's when he's around, and so I guess I've forgotten some of the presentation of the various builds. I thought they were just sort of 'fast-and-dirty' guidelines for building characters higher than 1st rather quickly.

[toddex]

Player's Handbook II, page 50. Monk character themes. All I can ask? Why? Why would anyone do that? What was the author thinking?! Take a good look at the "Stylist" fighters. And don't forget to look at how monks who fight with staffs refer to it as their "dragon pole" or "flowing water staff."

Tell me the whole thing is a joke. Please.

Seriously, try and imagine saying all those things listed there in a gaming table. "Dragon Claw!" signature attack my ***... I want to bash my head against the table and laugh while at it.

I just thought id let you know Wong fei hung a real man and folk hero of china was known for calling out his moves as or before he would do them.

[Tempest Fennac]

Looking back over the builds, I think they are supposed to be optimised. I suppose the Weapon Focus use for the Fighter builds makes sense due to them also using feats which grant large bonuses when using certain weapon types, but it doesn't really work for other classes. To a degree, the idea of having just 1 recommended spell list for Wizards is ill advised due to how versatile they are, but I can't believe they didn't mention Slow or Stinking Cloud for level 3 spells (I'd assume thay would be used more often in a normal game then Water Breathing).

[averagejoe]

Looking back over the builds, I think they are supposed to be optimised. I suppose the Weapon Focus use for the Fighter builds makes sense due to them also using feats which grant large bonuses when using certain weapon types, but it doesn't really work for other classes. To a degree, the idea of having just 1 recommended spell list for Wizards is ill advised due to how versatile they are, but I can't believe they didn't mention Slow or Stinking Cloud for level 3 spells (I'd assume thay would be used more often in a normal game then Water Breathing).

But without Water Breathing how can I use my Helm of Being Filled With Water?

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm guessing that isn't a real item, right? If it is, you may want to try playing as a Lizardfolk due to how long they can hold their breath. Alternatively, you could ask the Cleric if s/he can store that spell (I tend to think that it's wise for the spellcasters to plan their spell lists together, especially since Clerics don't have to pay for any of their spells).

[averagejoe]

I'm guessing that isn't a real item, right? If it is, you may want to try playing as a Lizardfolk due to how long they can hold their breath. Alternatively, you could ask the Cleric if s/he can store that spell (I tend to think that it's wise for the spellcasters to plan their spell lists together, especially since Clerics don't have to pay for any of their spells).

No, that was a joke, I wasn't actually asking for optimization advice.

I wonder if one could get any use out of a Helm of Being Filled With Water, though...

[Tempest Fennac]

I assumed it was a joke (I just thought I'd give advice in case it was a real item for some reason). Actually, that would be very useful if you were playing as a race which breaths water.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I wonder if one could get any use out of a Helm of Being Filled With Water, though...

if you are in a situation where you can't breathe(poison gas, vacuum), and happen to have Water Breathing memorized...

[Waspinator]

The poison gas may be water soluble.

[Baidas Kebante]

I just thought id let you know Wong fei hung a real man and folk hero of china was known for calling out his moves as or before he would do them.

I just thought I'd let you know that while Wong Fei Hung is indeed a real man and folk hero of China, calling out moves was a movie and book trope so that audience members would have an easier time following along. Shouting out "Shadowless Kick!", for example, was simply a way for viewers or readers to realize that he was using his "finishing move" and it was time to cheer.

In real life, calling out moves was only done for assessment purposes in training - to show you could perform a stance or attack properly you would call out its name and the master would check to see if it was correct. No one even considered shouting out moves in combat until some executive decided it would make for better TV.

[toddex]

I just thought I'd let you know that while Wong Fei Hung is indeed a real man and folk hero of China, calling out moves was a movie and book trope so that audience members would have an easier time following along. Shouting out "Shadowless Kick!", for example, was simply a way for viewers or readers to realize that he was using his "finishing move" and it was time to cheer.

In real life, calling out moves was only done for assessment purposes in training - to show you could perform a stance or attack properly you would call out its name and the master would check to see if it was correct. No one even considered shouting out moves in combat until some executive decided it would make for better TV.

Wong was a master of the Chinese martial art Hung Gar. He systematized the predominant style of Hung Gar and choreographed its version of the famous Tiger Crane Paired Form Fist, which incorporates his "Ten Special Fist" techniques. Wong was famous for his skill with the technique known as the "Shadowless Kick". He was known to state the names of the techniques he used while fighting.

-edit Just a copy pasta from wikipedia but if I really felt like it i could search through the entries listed sources.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

-edit Just a copy pasta from wikipedia but if I really felt like it i could search through the entries listed sources.

Do you really trust Wiki on something that has been said to be popular confusion?

[toddex]

Do you really trust Wiki on something that has been said to be popular confusion?

Well in this case it has the same weight as Baidas comment. I really dont feel like pursuing it further though.

[monty]

-edit Just a copy pasta from wikipedia but if I really felt like it i could search through the entries listed sources.

See, there's your problem.

[Inyssius Tor]

...but if I really felt like it i could search through the entries listed sources.

And you would find that the page lacks not only any reliable sources of any kind, but also any unreliable sources that say what the article says!

[chiasaur11]

No, that was a joke, I wasn't actually asking for optimization advice.

I wonder if one could get any use out of a Helm of Being Filled With Water, though...

Assassination attempts.
Most people don't expect a HAT to drown them.


Most.

[AstralFire]

I was under the impression that "calling out attack names" in combat was a result of radio dramas.

[Roderick_BR]

Rice Paper Walk

Footpaddin'

It's a joke that began in the PH.

Tongue of the sun and the moon.
Wholeness of body.
Flurry of blows.

It started *before* renaming things.

[herrhauptmann]

Assassination attempts.
Most people don't expect a HAT to drown them.

Most.

Combine it with a False aura (whatever it's called: makes a necro item look conjuration or something), and a lodestone. Soon as they put it on, they cant get rid of it.
Or some of D&D's krazy-glue.