Ideas for Orcish Society

[chronoplasm]

"Me got thot for law! Me say, we Orks say anyting we want! Sumwun try to tell Ork not say sumting, we beat 'im! Yu dunn laik wut Ork say? Tuff tookies!"

"Hoo got beef wit dat?! Aye or nay!"


Orcs are too independently minded to follow a leader, and they will not follow any command they don't agree with. In order for an orcish tribe to function at all, all orcs must be able to reach a consensus decision.

Whenever there is a major decision to be made, all the orcs of the tribe will gather together. The Chieftan is not a leader, but a facilitator for these discussions responsible for directing the discussion and breaking up fights. The Shaman monitors consensus and the emotional climate of the meeting. Skull-breakers make sure the meeting keeps to the schedule. If anybody tries to waste the tribe's time with pointless rambling, the Skull-breakers will beat them with sticks.
All orcs are considered equal. Any orc is allowed to come forward to present their opinions to the tribe. To a lesser extent, outsiders are able to do this as well, but they must work much harder to convince the tribe.

Once the tribe figures out an agenda, the orcs will argue about the item and identify general opinions and direction of the group. Then some orcs will come forward with proposals. Once proposals are made, there will be a call for consensus. All who agree with the proposal will raise their fists and yell. All who disagree will throw things. If consensus is not agreed, the dissenters will voice their complaints and the proposal will be modified. This process will continue until the orcs are reasonably content.

What do you think?

[EvilElitest]

pretty nice, i like how you combined the stupid orc idea with a really clanish hive mind idea
from
EE

[Calinero]

That process would hardly be efficient, but it makes a sort of sense. Perfect for orcs.

[chronoplasm]

"Ork way is worst way in world... 'cept for all the other ways." -Puggo, Orcish Philosopher

I'd also like to add that the larger orcish tribes will elect smaller committees for various purposes to save time.

*edit*

Another idea.

Sometimes multiple orcish tribes will get together to form a larger community. Each tribe will build its own "Orkhaus" with its own laws determined by the tribe, and then all of these tribes will get together to make a "Bighaus" where representatives of the tribes will go to discuss matters pertaining to the community as a whole.

[Hal]

What's wrong with the old, "The strongest guy leads them" theme.

[chronoplasm]

What's wrong with the old, "The strongest guy leads them" theme.

It might just be me, but I feel that kind of gets stale after a while. I want to experiment with different ways of treating orcs.

[AstralFire]

It might just be me, but I feel that kind of gets stale after a while. I want to experiment with different ways of treating orcs.

Mine are the head BBQ chefs in a restaurant underlit by Sharn's forges.

[Calinero]

I enjoy giving creatures like the Orcs more depth. After all, they are sentient creatures. It's silly to think that they would all behave in the exact same way. It's cool that you're trying to give then a social structure that's different from the norm.

[Falrin]

Strongest guy leads the way is the old way.
It worked untill orcs started to gang up on the strong guy.
So every major decision ended with half the tribe killed.

So now you still have the strongest guy, but he's only in charge in war, maybe daily buisness. But when major decisions come along, the tribe gets together and starts shouting.

I like the idea, escpecially if you keep the old tales up. The humans still go ' Big orc is chief, big brutes, force rules the tribe, ... '

And then you put them in a social situation with them.

[Lazy Zomb]

That is awesome. Give the generically evil, smelly, stupid race a democratic system. Would make sense why they're always clashing with PC race cultures that're using monarchies.

[EvilElitest]

it also explains why orcs don't get much done
from
EE

[chronoplasm]

"Orks fight for freedom! Orks help sun people be free!"
That could be a great motivation for orcish raids I think.

Falrin:
That would be a cool idea.
I can just imagine a group of PC characters being taken prisoner by the orcs and made to watch the tribe discuss what to do with them. Perhaps the characters should be forced to stand before the tribe and explain why they should be allowed to live.

[Zeful]

It might just be me, but I feel that kind of gets stale after a while. I want to experiment with different ways of treating orcs.

Except you could take despotic (might makes right) rule so many ways. For instance, all disputes are solved by combat. One Orc claims the other stole from him, they fight. Wife wants husband to clean dishes, they fight. Orc wants other Orc's life partner, they fight. So on and so forth. Orc honor is determined by his/her weapon's range. Swords are less honorable than daggers which are in turn less honorable than bare fists. Magic is the least honorable. There are no real laws, it's just the orc way. Orcs could live in a self-ruled Despotism without an actual leader, just the guys in the bar/tavern deciding to go that way.

[AstralFire]

So you're basically saying that orcs are a bunch of /b/tards and Pelor == Scientology.

[Zeful]

No just that they enjoy a very simple life of fighting, sex and food.
Also Pelor > Scientology

[Zuki]

I like this. It vaguely fits with some of Anarchism's ideas about how a non-hierarchical society or an anarchistic one might be led, with a lot of debate and arguing until a satisfying consensus is led. This fits with the 'chaotic' aspect of their alignment.

It makes it clear why large groups of orcs that are sufficiently organized is a big deal and a rare thing, because not all orcs might be happy with the decisions of such subcommittees. I like the fact that the moderators get to beat timewasters with sticks, and that with so many violent invididualists, a chief basically ends up in her position by having SUPREME NEGOTIATION SKILLS.

[Fishy]

Every year, there is a ceremony, where the Hauses gather for a public reading of the various agreements they decided on, and decide whether or not they still think they are good ideas.

Every year, right before the ceremony, the orcs conduct raiding parties to find and capture someone who can read.

[AstralFire]

No just that they enjoy a very simple life of fighting, sex and food.
Also Pelor > Scientology

How about St. Cuthbert, then? This still sounds remarkably similar.

[chronoplasm]

Every year, there is a ceremony, where the Hauses gather for a public reading of the various agreements they decided on, and decide whether or not they still think they are good ideas.

Every year, right before the ceremony, the orcs conduct raiding parties to find and capture someone who can read.

I can see that.

"ORKHAUSES! SOUND OFF!"

"Hammarhause! Hammarhause makes da brains go splat!"
"Meathause! We gots da porks!"
"Drunkhause! We gots da beer!"
"Axehause! We dunn demand, we axe!"
"Redhause! We better than Greenhause!"
"Greenhause! No, we better!"
"Deth Trukkhause! Four rape-wheels of POWAR!"

"Hoo gots da reader!"
"Me do!"
"Dats a gobbo! They no read!"
"It read if me say it do!"

[BossMuro]

My one problem with this is the whole 'all orcs are equal' bit. To me at least, the whole point of orcs is that they respect personal might above all else. That doesn't rule out democracy in any way, but some orcs would likely be a whole lot more equal then others.

[NPCMook]

Spoiler

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[AstralFire]

My one problem with this is the whole 'all orcs are equal' bit. To me at least, the whole point of orcs is that they respect personal might above all else. That doesn't rule out democracy in any way, but some orcs would likely be a whole lot more equal then others.

And that is different from a real democracy... how?

[Zeful]

My one problem with this is the whole 'all orcs are equal' bit. To me at least, the whole point of orcs is that they respect personal might above all else. That doesn't rule out democracy in any way, but some orcs would likely be a whole lot more equal then others.

Which is why an Anarchist (as in no king/leader not no society) Despotic rule makes so much sense.

[chronoplasm]

How about this:

All orcs can voice their opinions, but the bigger and stronger orcs are more likely to be heard.
Also, the bigger orcs are more likely to become chiefs and skull-breakers. These aren't leadership positions exactly, but they are positions of power and importance.

[MisterSaturnine]

I can see that.

"ORKHAUSES! SOUND OFF!"

"Hammarhause! Hammarhause makes da brains go splat!"
"Meathause! We gots da porks!"
"Drunkhause! We gots da beer!"
"Axehause! We dunn demand, we axe!"
"Redhause! We better than Greenhause!"
"Greenhause! No, we better!"
"Deth Trukkhause! Four rape-wheels of POWAR!"

"Hoo gots da reader!"
"Me do!"
"Dats a gobbo! They no read!"
"It read if me say it do!"

Robbothause! We gots the shenanigans!

[Fishy]

My one problem with this is the whole 'all orcs are equal' bit. To me at least, the whole point of orcs is that they respect personal might above all else. That doesn't rule out democracy in any way, but some orcs would likely be a whole lot more equal then others.

Nobody can make an Orc do what they don't want to do.

Of course, you can hit them until they start liking your idea more.

[chronoplasm]

Robbothause! We gots the shenanigans!

"Robbothause! Why you late to party?!"

[String]

"Robbothause! Why you late to party?!"

AMINALHAUS! Toga! Toga! Toga!


oh damn..I've turned into /b/...

[sonofzeal]

Orcs in my campaigns are usually much more.... Taoist, actually. They believe there needs to be a balance between the inward growth of agriculture and economy (which they associate with Darkness), and the outward growth of conquest (which they associate with Light). That balance is necessarily more weighted towards violence than human society, but they still see it as very important, with every Orc worth their salt having at least one outlet on either side. Crafts, Profession, Perform, Handle Animal, and Survival are all appropriate "Dark" outlets, with any combat feat serving for the "Light" side.

They're also generally herbivores, but that's another story.

[Kalirren]

I actually once played an orcish barbarian in the middle of a bunch of elves in a Native-American themed campaign, and it worked pretty well. My character had Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 6, that is to say, he was dumb for an orc and retarded by human and elven standards. Over the course of the RP I managed to flesh out a fair bit about the way orcs think, just from having to play dumb in a very intrinsically orcish manner, and I'm pretty happy with it. So here goes:

Orcs at the most primitive are just past Neolithic, still primarily hunter-gatherer nomads who rely on patrolling a large expanse of territory to keep a small tribe stable. Their society has reached a point where war and diplomacy are just starting to be feasible; natural disasters and human encroachment happen often enough to force orc tribes into contact with one another on a regular basis.

Orcs are pretty dumb, let's face it. But they're sentient, still. There are only a few ways of understanding things, but they work. For example, orcs don't kill members of the tribe to demonstrate power; just beating them up in public is enough. Orcs are dumb enough that a random good idea is often better than any standing consensus; over the years, orcish discussions haved evolved into town-hall style meetings where all tribe members are welcome to suggest, and different courses of action are adopted by the strongest and most able. This is often mistaken by humans to be a might-makes-right system; it really works the other way around. Most tribes that actually do devolve into might-makes-right are often led into their destruction, and do not survive; unfortunately for the orcs, this is also the type of tribe that also causes most trouble for the humans and earns them their bad name.

Orcs have invented sport to serve the dual purpose of ritualized combat and combat practice; tests of strength are the orcish pastime and take many forms, such as arm-wrestling, orc rugby, and full-scale tribe-on-tribe lacrosse. Good performance in these tests of strength are important for both men and women, and are important in social standing. Magic users exist and are set aside from this hierarchy of strength; the rare orcs who show magical talent will be taken aside by the wise and old and trained to become shamen, druids, and seers, that their talents might not be wasted.

Another oddity is that humans do not understand the orcish breakdown of the world. While for humans there exist law and evil, an orc sees things in terms of "strength", "wisdom", and "power". For example, a champion of Heironeous who leads for the glory of his kingdom and his legacy might fall under the orcish classification as being both "strong" and "wise", whereas a champion of Hextor who can get what he wants through exploitation of heirarchy would be seen as "strong" and "powerful". An old druid, or a well-respected medicine man, would be called "wise" and "powerful" but not "strong" as they are past their physical peak and do not participate in the heirarchy of strength.

The Orcish ideal is to be all three: strong, wise, and powerful. Paradoxically, their ideal alignment thus corresponds to a human LN, but orcs in general fall towards a human CE because that is their base mode of existence.