Number of Sorcerer Spells Known

[nc-edsl]

Does anyone know of a way to increase the number of spells a Sorcerer knows?

[Zeful]

Extra Spell feat and knowstones. That is all.

[nc-edsl]

What book(s) are those from?

[Kyeudo]

The Sand Shaper PrC from Sandstorm practically doubles the spells you have known, but costs you some caster levels. Which spells you gain are fixed, but most are fairly useful, so you can use your regular spells known to round them out.

Also, there is the Ultimate Magi or somesuch PrC from Complete Mage. It requires that you take Wizard levels to enter, but you can add a few spells from your Wizard spellbook to your Sorcerer spells known.

[AmberVael]

There are a few other PrCs which do it as well. Frostmage from Frostburn gives you a few extra spells known. Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror will give you a number of spells known (of your choice, with some limitations).

Also, there are some other feats which add to spells known- the Bloodline feats from Dragon Magazine (which can also be found online at realmshelps) give one spell per spell level (though they are pre-chosen for you).

[Zeful]

What book(s) are those from?

Knowstones are Dragon magazine 331 and work like pearls of power.

Extra spell is from Complete Arcane.

There are also heritage feats that give extra spells known, but aren't really worth it.

[Kurald Galain]

Mage of the Arcane Order.

[Ponce]

There is a feat called Mother Cyst that adds a bunch of necrotic-cyst-related spells to your known repertoire. I don't know if there are similar feats if you aren't interested in mastering undead pustules.

[Tempest Fennac]

Just thinking about the bloodline feats; if you don't think any of the existing ones are worthwhile, could you ask the DM if you could make a custom one for your character?

[Glimbur]

Runestaves from Magic Item Compendium.

[Starsinger]

Runestaves from Magic Item Compendium.

Doesn't technically increase your spells known, however it does add utility to a Sorcerer.

[valadil]

Just thinking about the bloodline feats; if you don't think any of the existing ones are worthwhile, could you ask the DM if you could make a custom one for your character?

I like these a lot. They're from Dragon Magazine and Dragon Compendium. Best of all, they aren't limited to sorcerers, just spontaneous arcane casters, so you can boost Bard, Beguiler, and Duskblade spell lists too. Usually they each only have one or two spells you want, but a couple have three or four good ones.

[Tempest Fennac]

You need to be able to summon a familiar to take those feats sadly. I agree that they are neat, though. (I often have trouble deciding which feats would be useful, but I'd definitly take one of those in order to get the extra spells).

[Fax Celestis]

Complete Champion Domain Sorceror Variant helps a bit, but its main function is giving you a few normally divine spells as arcane ones. Sorcerors with the Healing domain get a bit...weird.

[Starsinger]

Complete Champion Domain Sorceror Variant helps a bit, but its main function is giving you a few normally divine spells as arcane ones. Sorcerors with the Healing domain get a bit...weird.

Why? I dunno much about Complete Champion.

[Fax Celestis]

Why? I dunno much about Complete Champion.

Well, the CCham variant gives you every domain spell as a spell known for free. IIRC, it does NOT give you the domain power.

However, it allows you to take Customize Domain, an easily breakable feat by itself, as a sorceror. Which means you can replace things like mass cure light wounds with raise dead, or cure critical wounds with panacea, or regenerate with greater restoration.

And that's just the Healing Domain. Think of what you could do with other domains (Luck and War, in particular).

[Starsinger]

Well, the CCham variant gives you every domain spell as a spell known for free. IIRC, it does NOT give you the domain power.

However, it allows you to take Customize Domain, an easily breakable feat by itself, as a sorceror. Which means you can replace things like mass cure light wounds with raise dead, or cure critical wounds with panacea, or regenerate with greater restoration.

And that's just the Healing Domain. Think of what you could do with other domains (Luck and War, in particular).

Ohh... Thanks Fax

[AmberVael]

Well, the CCham variant gives you every domain spell as a spell known for free. IIRC, it does NOT give you the domain power.

First off, you have to pay for the variant with a spell known every level- so you don't know more spells, you just get some from a domain list.

You do get the domain power.

You can only cast each domain spell once per day.

It's a terrible, terrible variant, IMO.

Edit: Holy crap, am I correcting and opposing Fax?! What is the world coming to? I must pay for my blasphemy! Seppuku! SEPPUKU!
*commits suicide with a pen*

[Cuddly]

Isn't there some PrC trick that lets you know all cleric spells? Does that only work with Favored Soul?

[Fax Celestis]

First off, you have to pay for the variant with a spell known every level- so you don't know more spells, you just get some from a domain list.

You do get the domain power.

You can only cast each domain spell once per day.

It's a terrible, terrible variant, IMO.

Depends on the domain. Also, you can couple it with Arcane Disciple for extra arcane/divine strangeness.

[mostlyharmful]

Isn't there some PrC trick that lets you know all cleric spells? Does that only work with Favored Soul?

Rainbow Servant PrC, 10 levels long but you lose 4 caster levels. Very flavourful but pre-epic a bit sub-optimal. Personally I like to let a Sorc choose any spell, from any list, as spells known. I've been doing it since before favoured soul. There's some interpretations of the PHB that'll coincide with the idea of "all spells up for grabs" for Sorcs as well.

Also you can go a long way with broad choices, spells that can cover a whole lot of ground. Dig up Solos Guide if you want a solid look at Sorcs spell selection within the written framework.

[AmberVael]

Depends on the domain. Also, you can couple it with Arcane Disciple for extra arcane/divine strangeness.

Using it with Arcane Disciple would be...
...
Very, very ineffective.
You'd lose a LOT of versatility that way, especially since you can only cast each of your divine spells one time, but they still take up spell known slots.
And sorcerers don't get many spell slots. You'd be limiting yourself to about one or two spells per day in your highest slots, thus effectively limiting the sorcerer's one true power (as demonstrated by Xykon ), which is lots of spells per day.

Anyways, the variant effectively preselects your first highest level spell, decreases your spells per day, and in return allows you access to a few spells you couldn't normally cast, and a single power which (if not a caster level bonus) is outclassed by the time you hit level 5.
I'm not a fan.

[Douglas]

Isn't there some PrC trick that lets you know all cleric spells? Does that only work with Favored Soul?

Rainbow Servant's capstone adds all cleric spells to your class list, but you still have to learn them normally. Also, unless you can talk your DM into following the RAW text-trumps-table despite it being obviously not as intended, you lose 4 levels of spell progression.

[Fax Celestis]

Using it with Arcane Disciple would be...
...
Very, very ineffective.
You'd lose a LOT of versatility that way, especially since you can only cast each of your divine spells one time, but they still take up spell known slots.
And sorcerers don't get many spell slots. You'd be limiting yourself to about one or two spells per day in your highest slots, thus effectively limiting the sorcerer's one true power (as demonstrated by Xykon ), which is lots of spells per day.

Anyways, the variant effectively preselects your first highest level spell, decreases your spells per day, and in return allows you access to a few spells you couldn't normally cast, and a single power which (if not a caster level bonus) is outclassed by the time you hit level 5.
I'm not a fan.

Oh, I didn't say it would be zomgpowerful; it'd just be a way to get spells you couldn't normally get onto your list.

I'm still trying to find a way to get flame blade onto a Duskblade's spell list, but that's another story.

[AmberVael]

I'm still trying to find a way to get flame blade onto a Duskblade's spell list, but that's another story.

Two levels of Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror. You add any one Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment spell, or spell with the fire descriptor to your spells known.

[Fax Celestis]

Two levels of Fiend Blooded from Heroes of Horror. You add any one Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment spell, or spell with the fire descriptor to your spells known.

Doesn't that have CL loss, though? And I thought that specified arcane-only. S'been a while since I read that particular bit, though, so I could be way off base.

[AmberVael]

It has a CL loss, yes... at the tenth level.

And it specifically gives the example of Speak with Dead and points out that it is a divine spell, but that you could still take it since it falls into the categories.
Incidentally, a duskblade could meet all prereqs and get into the class as his 6th level. It's a perfect match, really.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, the CCham variant gives you every domain spell as a spell known for free. IIRC, it does NOT give you the domain power.

However, it allows you to take Customize Domain, an easily breakable feat by itself, as a sorceror. Which means you can replace things like mass cure light wounds with raise dead, or cure critical wounds with panacea, or regenerate with greater restoration.

And that's just the Healing Domain. Think of what you could do with other domains (Luck and War, in particular).

Not to nitpick, but according to the link provided...

Prerequisite: At least one domain, ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells.
Benefit: Choose one of your cleric domains. You permanently exchange spells on your domain spell list for similar spells on any spell list you have access to. You customize your domain when you choose this feat; you cannot later change your domain spells or return to your original domain spell list. You can only choose to substitute spells that are of equal or lower level and that adhere to the following restrictions by domain. Note that certain spells gain descriptors depending on how they're cast; you can choose such a spell as a spell with the descriptor you require so long as you only cast the spell in such a manner as to give it that descriptor.

((emphasis added))

So unless the domain variant allows a Sorcerer to cast his domain spells as divine spells rather than as arcane spells, he can't even take this feat without some special DM approval. And even if he could take it, he can only replace spells with similar spells from his own spell list that he could already choose from, so no raise dead or anything else unless you take a dip in another spellcasting class just to get their spell list.

[Fax Celestis]

So unless the domain variant allows a Sorcerer to cast his domain spells as divine spells rather than as arcane spells, he can't even take this feat without some special DM approval.

It does, IIRC.

[Darrin]

You need to be able to summon a familiar to take those feats sadly. I agree that they are neat, though. (I often have trouble deciding which feats would be useful, but I'd definitly take one of those in order to get the extra spells).

Obtain Familiar (Complete Arcane, p. 81) will fix that.

Draconic Legacy will also add about three spells known, depending on which draconic heritage you select. Extremely costly in feats, however. Unseen Seer can also add known spells via Advanced Learning, but can be difficult to qualify for without losing caster levels.

Bloodline feats from Dragon are probably the easiest way to add spells known. They are a trade-off, however... some are much better than others.

Air Bloodline: Gains mostly [air] spells but no flight or feather fall. Lose [earth] spells, but oddly enough not stoneskin or flesh to stone.
Rating: B+

Anarchic Bloodline: Gains color spray, mislead, prismatic spray... some good spells here, although maybe a bit weighted towards mind-effects. Loses [lawful] spells, of which Sor/Wiz have hardly any.
Rating: A+

Aquatic Fey Bloodline: About half charm/half water-related spells, but some really useful gems in here: alter self, charm monster, horrid wilting. You have to give up all conjuration (healing) (hah!) and all conjuration (creation) (*ACK* *HARSH*). So no grease, no orb spells, which means no easy way to hurt high-SR enemies. A bit too costly.
Rating: D+

Axiomatic Bloodline: Huh... kinda weighted toward divination. True seeing, forcecage, and dominate monster are all great, but detect chaos and locate object are kinda snoozers. You might want to skip the lower level stuff early on. Have to give up [chaotic] spells, which means almost nothing to a Sor/Wiz. So no downside, but upside doesn't really kick in until the higher levels.
Rating: B

Celestial Bloodline: Ok, the shiny happy end of the alignment-based bloodlines... some good anti-undead spells here, but nothing really stands out as sexy. You give up [evil] spells, which takes a good chunk out of the necromancy school for Sor/Wiz. Other than that, not much downside, and you have some spells that work well against undead and evil outsiders.
Rating: B-

Draconic Bloodline: Starts off a bit weak, but strong finish with True Seeing, Mind Blank, and Dominate Monster. While none of these spells really screams out "Dragon", they do a decent job at evoking most of a dragon's basic abilities. A much better deal than sinking 5 feats into Draconic Legacy. The downside is a bit odd, since you have to negotiate with the DM on what you want to give up, which most likely means an energy descriptor opposite to your chosen dragon's breath weapon. So, probably not a bad deal.
Rating: A-

Earth Bloodline: Wow, probably the most interesting selection of spells so far, mostly utility or buff. Hard to find a real stinker... well, ok, I'm not sure how often transmute mud to rock would come up. No stoneskin, though... sigh. You have to give up [air] spells... but hey, you can still fly, so no worries.
Rating: A

Fey Bloodline: A mix of *extremely* useful spells (glitterdust, mislead, irresistable dance) with some not-so-useful (detect secret doors, tongues, hallucinatory terrain). You give up spells to create or control undead, but hey, you've still got access to most of the really nasty necromancy stuff (enervation, finger of death).
Rating: B+

Fiendish Bloodline: And now down towards the "naughty" end of the spectrum... ok, not quite so underwhelming as the Celestial bloodline, but nothing really standing out as particularly nasty. Gives up [good] spells, which is nothing you'll ever need anyway. But... nightmare? Really, that's supposed to be evil? Hmm-kay...
Rating: C-

Fire Bloodline: Shove this firmly into the "what were they thinking?" column. I want to burn things, and they give me hypnotism, pyrotechnics, tongues?!?!? No burning hands, scorching ray, or fireball? Ok, fine, eventually you get meteor storm, but... no, a fire bloodline feat that barely gives you any [fire] spells? Lame.
Rating: Epic Fail.

Illithid Bloodline: Pretty much every "I want to screw with people's heads" spell you could ever want. So, while anything immune to mind-effects will happily squish you, they definitely *nailed* the squidface flavor perfectly. Have to give up some transmutation stuff like alter self and polymorph... ouch!
Rating: C+

Necromantic Bloodline: Awww... no Enervation?!? Big disappointment there, but the rest are all fairly solid save or suck/die spells. Unfortunately, most of them require touch attacks, and standing within melee range is not where most spellcasters should be. On the upside, there is no downside. Sorcerers have zero conjuration (healing) spells, so you don't lose anything taking this feat.
Rating: A

Penumbra Bloodline: Oh, look, shadows... lets be all emo and creepy... well, not a lot of great spells here, although Evard's Black Tentacles is darned near worth it all by itself. Planeshift is also quite useful. If you're doing a Killer Gnome build, then this one's a gimme for the two shadow evocation spells, otherwise... if you have to have evocations, might as well get the *real* ones. Have to give up [light] spells, which isn't a big deal... anything that could get hurt with a [light] spell can probably also get torn apart by black tentacles (except maybe for incorporeal undead).
Rating: C-

Plant Bloodline: Well, ok, not nearly as boring as it sounds. But then, nothing really exciting until Imprisonment, which is a long ways off. You lose [death] spells, so none of that slay living or finger of death stuff... not sure it's worth the trade-off.
Rating: D

Serpent Bloodline: Some kinda flavorful picks here, and then you finish off with the power word spells... nice, if a bit heavy on the mind-effects stuff. No poison, though? Are we constrictor snakes, then? But wait a minute... no fly spells? Yowch!
Rating: D

Water Bloodline: Hmmm... some general utility spells here. Pick up the normally druid-only quench, rock to mud and freezing sphere are good, and expeditious retreat is always handy. Not surprising, you give up [fire] spells, but hey, that's the most common energy resistance/immunity in the game.
Rating: B