Help with a Warlock in a powergamers group

[Elidis]

Hi there, I was wondering if anyone could possibly help me with my warlock character that I am currently playing with friends of mine and I am fairly new to D&D 3.5. The specific reason I am asking for help is:

All of my friends are 'power-gamers' in a sence and I am stuggling to keep up with them with my warlock. I am looking for infomation on; what realy is the job of the warlock in the group?, detailed infomation on what items I should be looking for to help me do that job, and general infomation.

Currently this is what my character is:

Class: Warlock (4)

Race: Elf

Stats:

10 STR
14 DEX
10 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
17 CHA (+1 from level 4)

Skills:

Intimidate: 7 ranks
Concentration: 7 ranks
Knowledge (Planes): 7 ranks
UMD: 7 ranks
Spellcraft: 7 ranks

Feats:

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Invocations:

Eldritch Spear
Sickening Blast
See the Unseen

Gear:

Chain Shirt
Longsword

Magic Items are extreamly hard to find in our adventure setting, and we are currently in a 'border princes' type area (were the best equiped for miles arround). Are adventure is up to level 24 and I was thinking of going; 20 Warlock / 1 Binder / 3 Hellfire Warlock. Our party consists of a; Human Fighter/Barbarian, Goliath Fighter, Human Sorceress, (some aquatic race) Druid with a big crocadile ;).

If you need more infomation Ill post it. Any help is welcome and I look forward to hearing from you guys soon.

[streakster]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=751117

[Rei_Jin]

If magic items are hard to find in your campaign, you're going to struggle without being an actual caster. There are some buffs you can use on yourself as a Warlock (See the Unseen, Dark Ones Own Luck, Entropic Warding, Spiderwalk, Flee the Scene, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen, etc), but if the other players in your group are selfish with their spells then you will probably have a hard time of it.

As to recommendations, I'd work out what kind of Warlock you want to be (Glaivelock, Craftlock, etc) and let us know. From there we'll be better able to help.

[Stupendous_Man]

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/....php?cid=16022

[Eldariel]

Your role? Archery and ranged support. If you choose "Eldritch Glaive"-invocation from Dragon Magic, you'll also be very competent in melee once you gain iteratives (much later, that is - around level 9 or so, or at whatever point you can acquire a Wand of Divine Might, whichever comes first).

On those levels, I strongly suggest the "Baleful Utterance"-invocation and rather carefree application of it on whichever targets you consider breakable. The more creative you get and the better you choose the battlefield, the more efficient it is. On those levels, the basic uses like breaking humanoid opponents' nonmagical equipment tend to be plenty, but there's more to it than that (especially if you've got the chance to prepare the battlefield). You have your natural Detect Magic to determine what's magical and what isn't.

Eldritch Spear and See the Unseen are definitely great invocations, although See the Unseen gains more value later. I'd replace See the Unseen with Baleful Utterance for now and work from there. Go back to See the Unseen once your first level invocations have run out their usefulness and invisibility becomes more of a relevant matter.


One last Least Invocation I really like it Summon Swarm. Deals constant damage, you can get a bunch of them and they disrupt opponents' spellcasting and other potentially annoying things. Once you get to higher levels, Fell Flight is the most important Lesser Invocation to learn - you'll suddenly be able to ignore most challenges, be nearly untouchable and still be able to rain fiery death upon your opponents.

With your Charisma, I'd focus on save-providing Invocations; this allows you to act as a solid debuffer. Also, get Gauntlets of Eldritch Energy [Magic Item Compendium] and Chasuble of Fell Power ASAP - especially Chasuble and its infinite uses are very valuable. Lesser Chasuble costs 8000, Gauntlets cost 5000 and greater Chasuble costs 18000, but they're all worth it once you can spare the money.


Remember though that a Warlock is no power bomb - it's a very decent class, but none of its abilities are over-the-top and it'll never really take over the whole show. If the others are playing straight casters and making optimal use of them, it's very possible that you'll feel left behind. Still, canny application of Baleful Utterance does a lot on low levels, so I'd go with that. Later you'll make an excellent crafter, and don't forget to max out your Use Magic Device and...get some Magic Devices to use (Wands mostly, some Eternal Wands perhaps).

[Elidis]

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/....php?cid=16022

I like some of the Magic Item ideas here, though there is a flaw in the feats since I know 100% that strongheart vest doesnt work against the con damage taken from using the hellfire blast and shield abbility since the con damage is not and attack and the belt only reduces stat damage from an attack, its on the errata if you want to check ;). So it might need a switch of feats and class levels.

[Elidis]

If magic items are hard to find in your campaign, you're going to struggle without being an actual caster. There are some buffs you can use on yourself as a Warlock (See the Unseen, Dark Ones Own Luck, Entropic Warding, Spiderwalk, Flee the Scene, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen, etc), but if the other players in your group are selfish with their spells then you will probably have a hard time of it.

As to recommendations, I'd work out what kind of Warlock you want to be (Glaivelock, Craftlock, etc) and let us know. From there we'll be better able to help.

Im looking to maximise my damage output, I a big fan of magic and I was going to play a sorcerer but that was already being played in our group and I dont like the idea of preparing spells, so I went with the warlock for spell casting. The Eldritch Glaive Warlock looks kinda cool but I like to sit back and fry my enemy, though I like the idea of a combat lock, the only issue is that I would need to get Proficiancy with Medium armour and the feat that lets you have no arcane spell failure in medium armor. I was told you cannot wear mithril medium armor unless you have the feat to use medium armor, but I would like the RAW on that. Crafting could be quite costly in exp wise for me, and I would start to fall behind even more in my group, though the items would be a great benifit, only issue is we are not staying in one location for long enough to craft the items I would need (I think) and by then I should have enough gold for my main items for my warlock.

[Elidis]

To Eldariel:

That was some good infomation there thank you. Where can I find infomation on wands and eternal wands (book wise)? Only issue with taking the 'Shatter' invocation is that we have not encountered anything that uses equipment. So far its been Animated objects, Formians, Hydras, and mainly monsters. Issue with the Eldritch Golves is that its only one element? and which element would I choose?

Some extra questions:

Any Idea on decent warlock feats?
Can I wear mirthil medium armour without medium armour feat? if I can, can I have the RAW for it please? Also does it count as medium armour for ASF?

[Xeticus]

Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.

More about invocations. Baleful Utterance is a great invocation. Eldritch Glaive is awesome and Spiderwalk is great. Another one that I love personally is All Around Eyes from complete mage. +6 to spot and search and comprehend languages on touch. I found that one to be very useful.

For later on Walk Unseen can't be beat. The ability to turn invisible pretty much at will is insanely good. Pair that with the quicken spell like ability feat and you can turn invisible as a swift action 3x a day. Bam! Shoot someone in the face with your eldritch blast, turn invisible as a swift action and then move to another hex.

Just a couple of suggestions. Anyway have fun.

[Stupendous_Man]

Strongheart Vest works. It reduces ability damage by one. This would apply to the Hellfire Warlock's ability.

[Elidis]

Strongheart Vest works. It reduces ability damage by one. This would apply to the Hellfire Warlock's ability.

'Q: Would the strongheart vest soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum p89) protect you from the ability damage of the hellfire warlock’s Hellfire Blast ability (Tyrants of the Nine Hells p90)?

A: The strongheart vest soulmeld reduces the amount of ability damage you receive from an attack; however, it will not keep you safe from the costs of Hellfire Blast because the ability damage you are taking is not from someone attacking you.'

Quote from the Errata on WotC

Link: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080507a

[streakster]

Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.

No doubt he wants to bind a vestige to avoid the ill effects of Hellfire Warlock.

[Stupendous_Man]

Quote from the Errata on WotC

Link: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080507a

That's not the errata...

[Elidis]

Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.

More about invocations. Baleful Utterance is a great invocation. Eldritch Glaive is awesome and Spiderwalk is great. Another one that I love personally is All Around Eyes from complete mage. +6 to spot and search and comprehend languages on touch. I found that one to be very useful.

For later on Walk Unseen can't be beat. The ability to turn invisible pretty much at will is insanely good. Pair that with the quicken spell like ability feat and you can turn invisible as a swift action 3x a day. Bam! Shoot someone in the face with your eldritch blast, turn invisible as a swift action and then move to another hex.

Just a couple of suggestions. Anyway have fun.

I need the binder level for the Nabrious pact so I can regenerate the CON damage I take next round by 1 from casting my Hellfire Blast and Hellfire Shield from the Hellfire Warlock PrC. Were playing to 24. One level of binder is not going to effect me in the long run (I think), it should help me with my PrC.

All Around Eyes would be amazing since were taking alot of spot checks Ill look into it.

Quicken Spell Like Abbility on Walk Unseen, wow thats mad, sounds like fun hehe. Though Fell Flight mixed with Walk Unseen should be great for scouting I thought and to be able to do it in 1 round thats just silly hehe.

[Elidis]

That's not the errata...

Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)

[streakster]

Quicken SLA is also great for flee the scene.

[Elidis]

Quicken SLA is also great for flee the scene.

Now thats great for realy, realy bad situations, mixed with flying arround limitless possiblitys.

[Stupendous_Man]

Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)

That's the Sage saying it won't work.

It's unofficial advice/ruling on the subject. It is one man's opinion. It is a houserule, not RAW.

I could go on.

[Elidis]

That's the Sage saying it won't work.

It's unofficial advice/ruling on the subject. It is one man's opinion. It is a houserule, not RAW.

I could go on.

Fair enough, though I still cant use it due to DM's rule 0.

[Stupendous_Man]

Fair enough, though I still cant use it due to DM's rule 0.

Yes, that is true.

[Eldariel]

To Eldariel:

That was some good infomation there thank you. Where can I find infomation on wands and eternal wands (book wise)?

Wands are in Dungeon Master's Guide (or SRD) - they can be made of any 4th level spell or lower. Eternal Wands are in Magic Item Compendium.

Only issue with taking the 'Shatter' invocation is that we have not encountered anything that uses equipment. So far its been Animated objects, Formians, Hydras, and mainly monsters.

Well, you can still break the ropes holding a bridge, the top of a small stalactite to drop it on folks, acid flasks, any sorts of explosive substances possibly nearby, etc. Still, in such a scenario, it's indeed less useful (although you could ask your DM if you can use it vs. Animated Objects for 1d6/level damage like vs. Crystallines; that seems like a reasonable houserule).

Issue with the Eldritch Golves is that its only one element? and which element would I choose?

Gauntlets of Thunder are awesome. Sonic is very rarely resisted.

Some extra questions:

Any Idea on decent warlock feats?

As said, the Spell-Like Ability-modifying feats. Also, Crafting. Ability Focus isn't horrible either for +2 DC to Eldritch Blast-invocations.

Can I wear mirthil medium armour without medium armour feat? if I can, can I have the RAW for it please? Also does it count as medium armour for ASF?

Mithril Medium Armor counts as a Light Armor (see the section for Mithril in DMG or http://www.d20srd.com/), so yes.

[Elidis]

Gauntlets of Thunder are awesome. Sonic is very rarely resisted.

What about the Gloves Of Eldritch Admixture? I think these are good, though one question can I sacrifice my move action for another swift action? so I take 1 standard action and 2 swift actions? so I can infuse it with hellfire?

[monty]

What about the Gloves Of Eldritch Admixture? I think these are good, though one question can I sacrifice my move action for another swift action? so I take 1 standard action and 2 swift actions? so I can infuse it with hellfire?

No. Only one swift/immediate action per turn.

[Eldariel]

Nope. By rules, you can't change anything into Swift Actions. Reasonable houserule is allowing you to change your Standard Action into Swift Action, but allowing changing your Move Action into Swift Action tends to be a Very Bad Idea™ (as most things can operate off Swift Actions, so moving becomes a huge tactical mistake, as it denies you that extra boost or extra Quickened spell or extra teleport>shadow pounce or...you get the point). It's better to think of movement as something you do while you take your other actions, than as a separate action.

[Douglas]

Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)

It is also a WotC representative being wrong. Let me quote the actual text of Strongheart Vest for you:

Any time you would take ability damage, such as Constitution damage or Strength damage, the amount of the damage is reduced by 1 point, to a minimum of 0.

Note the lack of qualifiers on the word "any".

[Elidis]

To Douglas:

Is there a 100% fool proof RAW for Strong Heart Vest? (its not a jab its a real question hehe)

[Elidis]

No. Only one swift/immediate action per turn.

Damn, so not like 4th Edition ;)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

To Douglas:

Is there a 100% fool proof RAW for Strong Heart Vest? (its not a jab its a real question hehe)

Hellfire says "Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. ...if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability."
By RAW, the Vest is essentially DR 1/- for ability damage. That is not the same thing as immunity.

[Douglas]

The rules text for Strongheart Vest mentions attacks in a) the flavor text, and b) the one-sentence descriptive summary. Neither has any actual rules mechanics impact. The actual rules mechanics (ignoring adding extra essentia) are determined entirely by the sentence I quoted above, which states that it works ANY time you take ability damage.

It could be argued that the Rules As Intended might be that it doesn't work - and the Sage is notorious for ruling by his view of RAI even when it is abundantly clear that his ruling is not RAW - but the RAW is quite clear that it does.

[Elidis]

Hellfire says "Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. ...if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability."
By RAW, the Vest is essentially DR 1/- for ability damage. That is not the same thing as immunity.

Im going to chat with my DM now xD, I'm gonner get me that soul meld hehe