4e Death Saving Throw Confusion/Frustration

[alfredbester]

Do the checkboxes uncheck themselves after you take a short rest or only after an extended rest? The manual doesn't say which, so does that mean either?

Basically what I'm seeing in my campaign is people popping down and up like whack-a-mole, and this would certainly alter that. It's a running joke that the rogue gets knocked unconscious at least once every battle. It's kind of ridiculous. It's so easy to get knocked out, but it seems very hard to die. And if I'd make a monster continue to slice at a character that was knocked unconscious, I think they'd throw dice at me and think I were singling someone out.

Also, do you enforce whether or not the characters know if their comrade is on one strike or two? I mean, I don't want to make the rolls behind the DM screen, but it is also kind of ridiculous how the party tends to wait until someone's at two strikes before aiding them.

[SadisticFishing]

Short rest.

[Kurald Galain]

It's kind of ridiculous. It's so easy to get knocked out, but it seems very hard to die.

It's not really ridiculous; the game was intentionally designed to make it very hard to deliver lasting harm to the player characters.

[Tsotha-lanti]

In our first combat playtest, against quite level-appropriate encounters, one PC died and another came within one failed save of death. Seemed lethal enough. In fact, if you do get knocked down that far, death is nigh-certain and inevitable, unless you're healed It's, what, a 10% chance to get to use a healing surge?

[Saph]

Basically what I'm seeing in my campaign is people popping down and up like whack-a-mole, and this would certainly alter that. It's a running joke that the rogue gets knocked unconscious at least once every battle. It's kind of ridiculous. It's so easy to get knocked out, but it seems very hard to die. And if I'd make a monster continue to slice at a character that was knocked unconscious, I think they'd throw dice at me and think I were singling someone out.

Bear in mind that some monsters attack to eat, and prefer to target PCs that are knocked unconscious. This is part of the reasons that Swarms are so nasty. In this case you should definitely have the monster keep attacking.

It's also appropriate for smart/evil enemies. "Surrender, now, or she dies!" (Ready action to Coup-De-Grace)

Also, do you enforce whether or not the characters know if their comrade is on one strike or two? I mean, I don't want to make the rolls behind the DM screen, but it is also kind of ridiculous how the party tends to wait until someone's at two strikes before aiding them.

Really this is something that players just have to roleplay - you can't effectively enforce it. I wouldn't bother trying to make the rolls behind the DM screen. Just ask the players to try and separate OOC from IC when possible.

- Saph

[Crow]

In our first combat playtest, against quite level-appropriate encounters, one PC died and another came within one failed save of death. Seemed lethal enough. In fact, if you do get knocked down that far, death is nigh-certain and inevitable, unless you're healed It's, what, a 10% chance to get to use a healing surge?

My game experience over the past 7 levels is the opposite. It's ridiculously easy to prevent death as long as someone is still up. Someone has usually gone unconcious in every session, but only once has a character died (and that was only because he fell so far that it knocked him straight into the afterlife.

[SadisticFishing]

It's also appropriate for smart/evil enemies. "Surrender, now, or she dies!" (Ready action to Coup-De-Grace)

- Saph

This is a great idea, I can't believe I didn't think of it. Thank you :D

[DarknessLord]

It's also appropriate for smart/evil enemies. "Surrender, now, or she dies!" (Ready action to Coup-De-Grace)

That is a good idea, why didn't I think of that, oh that's right
My PCs: "I get her stuff."

[Zeful]

That is a good idea, why didn't I think of that, oh that's right
My PCs: "I get her stuff."

If and NPC is capable of killing one of the party, who's to say she's not capable of defeating the entire party?

There are plenty situations in which condemning another character to die is a "bad idea".

[Mando Knight]

I nearly lost my character in a 4e Living FR game I played... the DM forgot that an Imp can't use his invisibility and tail attack in the same turn. Guess what his tactics were.

My character "technically" died, but because it was due to the Imp apparently having two Standard actions per turn, he decided that I would get rezzed without the normal penalties... (which includes forfeiting treasure and some of the XP, as well as the full cost of the ritual...)

[Handsome Rob]

I'm away from my books at the moment so I can't quote page and verse. But I think you'll find that you die if you fail three death saves in a day. So in terms of your question, those boxes get unchecked after an extended rest.

[RTGoodman]

I'm away from my books at the moment so I can't quote page and verse. But I think you'll find that you die if you fail three death saves in a day. So in terms of your question, those boxes get unchecked after an extended rest.

I think the exact wording is more like, "You die if you fail more than three death saving throws before you rest," which is what caused the OP's original confusion considering there are TWO types of "rest" now. I could be wrong, though.

[skywalker]

Lower than 10: You slip one step closer to death. If you get this result three times before you take a rest, you die.

This is the exact wording from page 295. Since it does not specify what kind of rest, one would think it means any rest. The errata did not change anything, either. So a short rest should be fine.

[alfredbester]

Yeah, I guess it is short rest, thanks. :(

Thanks for all the sweet suggestions, too. I love the surrender or die one. And we're playing in about four hours, too. Muahahaha. I really want to throw an ettin at them, but they're only four of them tonight and they're second level. But my figurine is soooo cooool.

I just had the idea to award the group a roleplaying XP bonus (not singling anyone out) if everyone is adequately separating their OOC and IC knowledge. Hopefully that'll help in some of my problems.