Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Power was a bauble. Any thug had power. The true prize was control.
    -- Havelock Vetinari, The Fifth Elephant, Terry Pratchett

    RETURN OF THE GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE VII: Intriguing

    Many of these contests have been somewhat dungeon-crawl-focused. Let's change that. The challenge here is a to create a character who thrives on political intrigue. Surviving assassinations is a small part of it (and can be left to your guards -- if you can trust them).

    "Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

    We'll follow Duke of URL's old rules plus with a few minor changes.

    For numeric attributes with progressions (such as BAB and saves) first determine at each level which progression the attribute follows, then count how many levels of each progression you have, then index into the progressions, then add them together. This means that a fighter 1 / sorceror 19 // wizard 20 has 1 level of good BAB and 19 of bad, giving +1 and +9 respectively for a total BAB of +10. Similarly, a character with 20 different marshal classes gets a base fort save of +12, not +40. It's not addressed in the gestalt or multiclassing rules, but this tends to make the most reasonable builds.

    Disregard the clause about multiclassing penalties. We could never figure out how to apply it anyway.

    If you are using multiple templates, you may only do so in a way which makes sense with what the template means. For example, you may only use one template that represents one parent being of a different race unless your base race is one where more-than-two parent reproduction is normal.

    Well known cheese (pun-pun, omnificer, etc.) is banned.

    Here are Duke of URL's old rules, for those who have forgotten them. Spoilered because they're long

    Spoiler
    Show

    Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
    • Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
    • Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
    • Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
    • Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
    • Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
    • Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
    • Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of:
      • Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge?
      • Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited?
      • Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective?
      • Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices
      • Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points
        • Using flaws (1 point each)
        • Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each)
        • Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each)
        • Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA)
        • Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each)
        • Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each)
        • Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item)
        • Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Banned
     
    Talic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Intriguing. I'll bite.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    I wasn't entirely clear on what the premise was supposed to be, but assuming I got it right:

    Eidia
    Nymph Sorcerer 13 / Sacred Exorcist 5 / Fatespinner 1 / Unseen Seer 1 // RHD 6 / LA 7 / Fighter 1 / Spymaster 4 / Arcane Duelist 2
    Str 8 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 20 Wis 14 Cha 26
    Power Breaks:
    9 (DMM Quicken), 15 (Cha to AC again with monk's belt)

    {table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feat(s)
    1 | Sorcerer 1 | RHD 1 | Education
    2 | Sorcerer 2 | RHD 2
    3 | Sorcerer 3 | RHD 3 | Skill Focus (Bluff)
    4 | Sorcerer 4 | RHD 4
    5 | Sorcerer 5 | RHD 5
    6 | Sorcerer 6 | RHD 6 | Quicken Spell
    7 | Sorcerer 7 | LA 1
    8 | Sacred Exorcist 1 | LA 2
    9 | Sacred Exorcist 2 | LA 3 | Divine Metamagic (Quicken Spell)
    10 | Sacred Exorcist 3 | LA 4
    11 | Sacred Exorcist 4 | LA 5
    12 | Sacred Exorcist 5 | LA 6 | Improved Unarmed Strike
    13 | Fatespinner 1 | LA 7
    14 | Unseen Seer 1 | Fighter 1 | Dodge
    15 | Sorcerer 8 | Spymaster 1| Ascetic Mage
    16 | Sorcerer 9 | Spymaster 2
    17 | Sorcerer 10 | Spymaster 3
    18 | Sorcerer 11 | Spymaster 4 | Mobility
    19 | Sorcerer 12 | Arcane Duelist 1
    20 | Sorcerer 13 | Arcane Duelist 2[/table]
    Level 20 numbers:
    HP 1d10+7d8+10d6+2d4
    BAB +12
    Base saves: Fort +8 Ref +10 Will +12
    AC 33 (+3 dex, +10 deflection, +10 miscellaneous) touch 33, flat-footed 30

    Items: Monk's Belt, Tome of Leadership and Influence +5, Cloak of Charisma +6. This gives Cha to AC thrice and a total Charisma of 42, ending up with an AC of 61 and save bonuses of +27/+28/+30.

    After the local town destroyed her home in their desire to expand, Eidia decided to work her way through the political infrastructure in order to subtly shape their society to a more natural way of life and return the area to the way it used to be. Using her natural charisma, she quickly earned favors from many of the nobles and used them to begin working her way up.

    If she gets into a combat situation, she can use her nigh-untouchable AC and huge save bonuses to get out quickly without taking a hit. If she wants to or for some reason has to fight, she casts as a 7th level druid (woo-hoo) and 20th level sorcerer. She has plenty of turning attempts for DMM Quicken if she needs to get off more spells. Oh, and there's always Stunning Glance and Blinding Beauty.
    Last edited by monty; 2008-10-16 at 02:07 AM.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JaxGaret's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Someone's going to come up with an insane Diplomancer build for this one.

    I'm looking at you, Chronos
    You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    Someone's going to come up with an insane Diplomancer build for this one.

    I'm looking at you, Chronos
    "Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)"

    Diplomancer=bad.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JaxGaret's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    "Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)"

    Diplomancer=bad.
    Oh yeah, forgot about that.

    So we're supposed to build a diplomat who doesn't rely on Diplomacy? Weird.
    You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    Oh yeah, forgot about that.

    So we're supposed to build a diplomat who doesn't rely on Diplomacy? Weird.
    Doesn't have to be a diplomat, by my reading. Besides, you can use Diplomacy without being dependent on it.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxGaret View Post
    Oh yeah, forgot about that.

    So we're supposed to build a diplomat who doesn't rely on Diplomacy? Weird.
    Presumably, that means we're supposed to build a mind-control diplomat. Which, you know, isn't that hard.

    The King is dead. Long live the King.
    Ghost Human Sorcerer-10/Mage of the Arcane Order-10/Ghost LA 5/Monk-2/Hexblade-3/Paladin of Tyranny-2/Rogue-3/Arcane Duellist-5

    Stats:
    Pump: Charisma
    Moderate: Intelligence (for skill points)
    At least 13: Dex (for feat requirements)
    Dump: Con, Str, Wis.

    Alignment: Lawful-Evil
    For Ghost abilities, pick Malevolence, Draining Touch, and Telekinesis.
    For spells, go heavy on the mind-control stuff, but don't forget to take Mind Blank, Dispel Magic, and at least Summon Monster IV (for the reserve feat).

    What do you have?

    Defenses:
    Charisma to AC three times (Deflection from the incorporeal subtype, although it won't always apply; Monk + Ascetic Mage, and Apparent Defense, Arcane Duelist-2)
    Charisma to saves (Paladin of Tyranny-2), and Charisma to saves again for spells and spell-like effects (Hexblade-2)
    Evasion (Monk-2)
    Mettle (Hexblade-3)
    d12 hit die, a host of immunities from the undead type, +4 Turn Resistance (but that usually won't matter, see Method)
    Limitless self-healing out of combat (Draining Touch on elementals from Elemental Summoning)
    Rejuvenation (Ghost ability - roll 1d20+hit dice vs. DC 16 to come back from destroyed in 2d4 days)

    Offenses: Full Sorcerer Spellcasting, plus the ability to pull up any PHB Sor/Wiz spell on one round's notice. Enough said, I think.

    Basic Method:
    Find a ruler, hunting around by way of the Ethereal plane. Follow him (or her, whatever) until the ruler goes to sleep. Use Draining Touch on the ruler until the ruler has 0 Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma (in that order). Then use Telekinesis to remove all of the rulers possessions and equipment, posess the Ruler with Malevolence, and then (as the ruler) put everything back on. When the Malevolence comes close to expiring, take the ruler to bed, disposses, and let the body rest. Look around as an ethereal beasty (makes for very nice spying on local notables), come back, and repossess the ruler (Rogue levels give enough skillmonkery to get lots of ranks in Sense Motive, Bluff, and so on). And if you fail, well, it's only the host that dies; you're fine (if now unmasked); vanish, and take over whoever replaces the ruler that died. If you're killed AGAIN, you're back 2d4 days later to see who took over, and replace them. Charm, Dominate, or Mindrape anyone who looks to be a problem.

    Minimum Playable: 5th

    Monty: Technically, the Swordsage AC bonus only applies while you're wearing light armor, while the Monk AC bonus requires you wear no armor. Exactly as written, you only get Charisma to AC twice, sorry.
    Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2008-10-15 at 10:09 PM.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Baltimore
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    This is a rough build (and my first entry in a gestalt contest), but I think he makes a good politician.

    Human Beguiler 20//Cleric 1/Bard 14/Evangelist 5

    Major abilities: Int (for full Beguiler casting and skills) and Cha (for interaction skills and Bardic casting). Anything leftover goes into Dex (for sneaky skills and reflex/AC).

    Bard and Beguiler both get you spells that can either boost your diplomatic skills through the roof (*cough* Glibness *cough*). Evangelist is a natural extension for someone dedicated to telling people all about how great their cause is (even if it's themselves).

    Here's where I start to like the build.

    As a cleric, take the luck domain. This grants you a reroll. Your feats:

    Improved Initiative
    Heroic Destiny
    Protected Destiny
    Fearless Destiny
    Lucky Start
    Third Time's the Charm
    Make Your Own Luck
    Survivor's Luck

    We start with your cleric luck reroll. Heroic destiny lets you add 1d6 to a d20 roll once a day. Protected Destiny lets you reroll a saving throw once a day. So does Survivor's Luck. Fearless Destiny saves you from death once a day. Lucky start lets you reroll initiative, so you can get all you need out of that Improved Initiative if you end up in combat. Third Time's the Charm lets you get another cleric luck reroll. Make Your Own Luck lets you reroll a skill check. (Alternatively, switch out Improved Initiative with Face-Changer. Nothing says "intrigue" like a character who can change their face at will.)

    Essentially, this character, like any politician, should be able to smooth talk his way out of anything, and nothing should be able to stick to him. Unless you have the absolute worst rolling anyone has ever seen, you should be able to get something to stick, whether it's a diplomacy check, a bluff check, or a saving throw because some schmuck decided they didn't like you. If all else fails, cast invisibility and scurry away.

    As added insurance, grab a few skill tricks. Social Recovery lets you use a Bluff check to recover from a failed Diplomacy check. The others can be useful, depending on whether you plan on being disguised or worrying about combat at all.
    Last edited by Hal; 2008-10-15 at 09:10 PM.
    Halbert's Cubicle - Wherein I write about gaming and . . . you know . . . stuff.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Monty: Technically, the Swordsage AC bonus only applies while you're wearing light armor, while the Monk AC bonus requires you wear no armor. Exactly as written, you only get Charisma to AC twice, sorry.
    Gah, I always forget about that. It makes no sense at all.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  11. - Top - End - #11
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    Gah, I always forget about that. It makes no sense at all.
    It's an unintended technicality that, coincidentally, fixes an unintentional (imo) oversight. The Swordsage AC bonus seems to me to be intended as an improved version of the Monk AC bonus and, as the two abilities are two versions of exactly the same thing, they should not stack with each other.
    Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.

    Avatar by Ceika.

    Archives:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Saberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
    Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
    Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
    Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jack_Simth's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    Gah, I always forget about that. It makes no sense at all.
    Would you prefer I said that the two abilities don't stack as they have exactly the same name?

    Still though, Charisma to AC twice is pretty good.

    Hmm... maybe a splash of Arcane Duelist to get it up to three again... but that would cut down somewhat on the social skill aspect....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    If I drop the swordsage levels and one feat and add in a level of fighter and a monk's belt, I think I can fit it in.
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Hmmm. Just throwing this out there, but there's a cleric spell (level 9) from the destiny domain, Choose Destiny. Lets you roll twice on every d20 roll, 1 rnd/level. Personal range. Cleric. Hm.

    Also, Surge of Fortune (CC) can be nice insurance.

    Marshal lets you add charisma to all charisma based skill checks, and some chameleon or bard lets you use Improvisation, one of the best skill boosters ever.

    Without custom items, circlet of persuasion boosts all charisma based skill checks.

    Ummm. Glibness.

    I recommend some bard or chameleon levels for everyone!

    Oh, or the supercheesy chameleon with 9'th level spells.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
     
    Talic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    I'm working on a build that includes Chameleon. And no, not the uber cheesy level 9 spell variant. But stop spoiling my future ideas. LOL

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Someone's going to come up with an insane Diplomancer build for this one.

    I'm looking at you, Chronos
    Give me time... Perhaps a Bluff-based build? Or, heck, all of the social skills except Diplomacy?
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fresno (yes, THAT Fresno)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Triple Charisma again! Yay!
    My characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sarah, human gestalt druid/totemist
    Adrian, human rogue
    Calypso, half-nymph human gestalt druid/miscellaneous


  18. - Top - End - #18
    Banned
     
    Talic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Human: The Emperor
    Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 18
    Stats at 20: Str 8, Dex 11, Con -, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 26

    Playable from level: 1
    Power Breaks: 4,8,12,16,20 (Advanced learning, Lich transformation); 14,16, 18, 20 (Fiendish Sorcery); 8 (Undead Mastery, Mimic Class Feature… Undead mastery when animation is possible from 2 classes –True Necro and Chameleon); Otherwise Scales in power as a Caster with High Powered Necromancy, and a plethora of low level access to spells, including, by level 20, the ability to cast any spell from level 0-5. Regardless of list (arcane spells must be written in spellbook)

    Build: Dread Necromancer 20 // Sorceror 5/Chameleon 7/Fiend-Blooded 8

    Breakdown:
    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=header]Class 1 | Class 2 | Features | Misc
    Dread Necromancer 1 | Sorceror 1 | Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead, Summon Familiar |
    Dread Necromancer 2 | Sorceror 2 | Lich Body DR2 |
    Dread Necromancer 3 | Sorceror 3 | Negative Energy Burst 1/day |
    Dread Necromancer 4 | Sorceror 4 | Advanced Learning, Mental Bastion +2 | +1 Cha
    Dread Necromancer 5 | Sorceror 5 | Fear Aura |
    Dread Necromancer 6 | Chameleon 1 | Scabrous Touch 1/day, Aptitude focus 1/day (+2) |
    Dread Necromancer 7 | Chameleon 2 | Lich Body DR 4, Summon Familiar, Bonus Feat |
    Dread Necromancer 8 | Chameleon 3 | Advanced Learning, Negative Energy Burst 2/day, Undead Mastery, Mimic Class Feature 1/day | +1 Cha
    Dread Necromancer 9 | Chameleon 4 | Negative Energy Resistance, Ability boon +2 |
    Dread Necromancer 10 | Chameleon 5 | Light Fortification 25%, Aptitude Focus 2/day (+4) |
    Dread Necromancer 11 | Chameleon 6 | Lich Body DR 6, Scabrous Touch 2/day, Mimic Class Feature 2/day |
    Dread Necromancer 12 | Chameleon 7 | Advanced Learning, Enervating Touch, Ability Boon +4, Double Aptitude | +1 Cha
    Dread Necromancer 13 | Fiend-Blooded 1 | Negative Energy Burst 3/day, Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC |
    Dread Necromancer 14 | Fiend-Blooded 2 | Mental Bastion +4, Fiendish Sorcery |
    Dread Necromancer 15 | Fiend-Blooded 3 | Lich Body DR 8, Blood of fiends +1 saves, Fiendish Heritage +1 Cha
    Dread Necromancer 16 | Fiend-Blooded 4 | Advanced Learning, Scabrous Touch 3/day, Fiendish Sorcery, Smiting Spell 1/day | +1 Cha
    Dread Necromancer 17 | Fiend-Blooded 5 | Enervating Touch, Light Fortification 50%, Fiendish Heritage +1 Int |
    Dread Necromancer 18 | Fiend-Blooded 6 | Negative Energy Burst 4/day, Blood of fiends cold fire resist 5, Fiendish Sorcery |
    Dread Necromancer 19 | Fiend-Blooded 7 | Craft Wondrous Item, Fiendish Heritage +1 Dex |
    Dread Necromancer 20 | Fiend-Blooded 8 | Advanced Learning, Lich Transformation, Fiendish Sorcery, Smiting Spell 2/day | +1 Cha[/table]

    Spells:{table=Header]Level | Necro Spells* | | Sorceror Spells* | Known | | Chameleon Spells*
    1 | 3 | | 5,3 | 4,2 | | -
    2 | 4 | | 6,4 | 5,2 | | -
    3 | 5 | | 6,5 | 5,3 | | -
    4 | 6,3 | | 6,6,3 | 6,3,1 | | -
    5 | 6,4 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | -
    6 | 6,5,3 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,2,0
    7 | 6,6,4 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,3,1
    8 | 6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,3,2,0
    9 | 6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,4,3,1
    10 | 6,6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,4,3,2,0
    11 | 6,6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,4,4,3,1
    12 | 6,6,6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,4 | 6,4,2 | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    13 | 6,6,6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,5,3 | 7,4,2,1 | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    14 | 6,6,6,6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,6,4 | 7,5,3,2 (+1) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    15 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,6,5,3 | 8,5,3,2,1 (+1) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    16 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,6,6,4 | 8,5,4,3,2 (+2) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    17 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,6,6,5,3 | 9,5,4,3,2,1 (+2) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    18 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,3 | | 6,6,6,6,6,4 | 9,5,5,4,3,2 (+3) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    19 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4 | | 6,6,6,6,6,5,3 | 9,5,5,4,3,2,1 (+3) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0
    20 | 6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5 | | 6,6,6,6,6,6,4 | 9,5,5,4,4,3,2 (+4) | | 4,4,4,4,2,0[/table]
    *Does not Factor in bonus spells


    Dread Necro: At level 20, casts as level 20, and has 5 bonus spells, spell levels 1-9
    Sorceror: At level 20, casts as level 13 (CL 17 - practiced spellcaster), Spell levels 0-6
    Chameleon: At level 20, casts as level 14 (CL 18 - practiced spellcaster), Spell levels 0-5

    So yeah, tons of casting. High Charisma (works for 2/3 cast classes, and ability boon can nail Int or Wis as necessary for 3rd)
    High Charisma also fuels social skills, disguise, bluff, gather information.

    This guy doesn't diplomance. He's Emperor Palpatine. Smooth talking when needed, and possessed of a modicum of diplomancy. Max out those Disguise skills, so that a simple raising of the hood transforms you from evil overlord to benevolent Chancellor. Even can activate the Fear aura for Intimidating presence, as it only gives people the Shaken status effect. Most of his classes have good social skills (Disguise, Bluff, etc), and Able Learner means those cross class ones ain't hard to pick up. It also means that once a class skill, always a class skill.

    However, when push comes to shove? He can shove back. Hard. Full Casting Necromancer. Gets decently high in Sorceror (Lightning bolt, gotta have the force lightning), and is whatever you need in Chameleon. In addition, can heal himself through Charnel Touch.

    In addition, can control 240 HD of undead through undead mastery, and another 20 HD through Rebuke Undead. So his friends in the shadows... ARE the Shadows.
    If you manage to get him a Cloak of charisma +6? Add a LOT of undead to that(+60 HD).
    A Tome of leadership and influence +4? +40 HD of undead. As is,

    For a more “undead army” feel, remove Chameleon, add in more sorcerer, and throw in a level of Archmage to give the Emperor Animate Dead as a Spell Like Ability (bypassing the material Component, to make him cost-effective). But that’s an entirely different guy (heckuva army tho, specially with Undead Leadership, and maybe a couple Corpsecrafter feats – Negative energy on Death is a fun one)

    Also Note: This character is as described above if the only thing he has through his entire career... Is a nonmagical robe.
    Last edited by Talic; 2008-10-16 at 07:51 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Library Lovers Contest Winner
     
    Duke of URL's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by monty View Post
    "Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)"

    Diplomancer=bad.
    My original rules can always be superseded by the specific challenge rules; this was true in the original version of these challenges, too.

    That said, I think creativity would demand coming up with a better solution than diplomancer.


    My Homebrew
    Gronk by dallas-dakota

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JaxGaret's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NYC

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of URL View Post
    My original rules can always be superseded by the specific challenge rules; this was true in the original version of these challenges, too.

    That said, I think creativity would demand coming up with a better solution than diplomancer.
    Note that I said insane Diplomancer

    Noted though, and right from the horse's mouth, as it were.
    You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of URL View Post
    My original rules can always be superseded by the specific challenge rules; this was true in the original version of these challenges, too.

    That said, I think creativity would demand coming up with a better solution than diplomancer.
    I think the problem with diplomacy is that the rules for it are horribly broken. Under RAW, it's a DC 25 to make Inigo Montoya just walk away, and a 35 to do it in 6 seconds. By level 20, those DCs are trivial to hit. Even with Rich's version, it's only DC 60 or so, and getting a skill mod to there isn't much of a challenge for these boards (artificiar, hat of diplomacy +30 for the simplest cheese).

    Why don't we figure that having good diplomacy skills counts toward the contest, but assume we've got a house-ruled diplomacy mechanic that isn't horribly abusable. I'm not going to try to write that mechanic in this post, though.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    Talic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Bear in mind, social setting is more than diplomacy. Same with intrigue. Games of intrigue involve standing right out in the open, while nobody knows who you are. Such games usually feature parties having regular interaction with a bbeg without even knowing it. Such cloak and dagger games benefit from diplomacy, but you need more to really thrive in such a game.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    Talia
    Race: Half-air-elemental Doppleganger
    Classes: la 7 / bard 10 / divine oracle 3 / rhd 4 / ninja 1 / mindspy 5 / spymaster 7 / factotum 3
    Initial Stats: STR: 10 DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 20 WIS: 14 CHA: 22 (boost cha, lesser dex and int)

    The key points of successful intrigue are to know what everyone is thinking and to ensure that no one knows what you're thinking. As a doppleganger mindspy, Talia always knows the surface thoughts of the four most interesting people near her, and as a spymaster, no divination magic can reveal hers.

    Another classic intrigue task is disguise, for which shape-shifting comes in very handy.

    Every level is either 6+int or 8+int skills, with a high int. (This includes the rhd because they're outsider, not monstrous humanoid.)

    With almost complete bard casting, she gets a good assortment of enchantment and illusion spells, plus some divination from oracle domain.

    She's even moderately capable in combat, with improved unarmed strike, ascetic mage, improved feint (supporting sudden strike/sneak attack), and maybe weapons finesse. Since there aren't many useful feats for intrigue, she can afford to spend them here.

    I admit that I threw the factotum on at the last minute because I needed a base class with a lot of skills. It isn't key to the build, but I think it'll be handy.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Gestalt Build Challenge Returns VII: Intriguing

    I had... half of an idea for this contest, which is always the problem with gestalt.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •