4e gestalt?

[Dentarthur]

Just for shoots and giggles, I'm dreaming up gestalt builds for 4th edition. I've never done gestalt at all, so I'm very much winging it.

Here's what I'm thinking so far. Of your two chosen classes, you get
- all class features from both classes
- all weapon proficiencies of both classes
- the better of the two HP progressions
- the greater daily healing surge count
- both defense bonuses (non-stacking)
- both automatic skills (e.g. Religion plus either Nature or Dungeoneering for a ranger/cleric), and a number of additional skills equal to whichever class gets more, chosen from both class lists
- the same number of powers as a normal character, but chosen freely from both classes' power lists

So for a few examples: a Rogue/Fighter who chooses the one-handed weapon talent would get +2 attack with daggers. A Ranger/Warlock would deal +2d6 damage constantly at the cost of two minor actions per enemy. A Cleric/Warlord can heal 4 times per encounter (and apply his Wis bonus to two of them). A Paladin/Wizard would be a controller with a truckload of HP and surges (who can wear plate armor without penalty to casting!).

Too much? Too little? Needs more cowbell? What gestalt character would you build in 4e?

[Erk]

Almost exactly like my own but I allow the player to select 2 at-wills from each class, 1 encounter from each class, 1 daily from each class, et cetera. That's because I only use gestalts for campaigns with very few players, so they really need the power boost. I also give the characters a milestone after every fight to keep up with the demand for actions with a smaller party. It makes the characters equivalent to a bit less than two characters of equal level.

In the DM-free game my fiancee and I are playing, I'm a gestalt cleric/paladin and she is a ranger/wizard. It really rocks actually.

For a regular game with gestalt-style power levels, your rules are good I think.

[Yakk]

I'd write up Gesalt in 4e as "elite PCs" with two classes each.

Give them full HP from higher class, plus half of the lower class.

Give them two minor actions per round.

Sum defense bonuses from classes.

All auto-skills, plus extra skills equal to (class with most skills) plus (half, rounded down, class with fewer skills).

Highest number of healing surges (HP is already inflated).

3 at-will powers (2 from 1 class, 1 from the other).

Get Utility powers from both classes as you level up.

Gain extra powers as follows:
1st: Extra Encounter power
4th: Extra Daily power
8th: Extra Encounter power
13th: Gain an at-will power from class with fewest
14th: Extra Daily power, Replace an Encounter power
17th: Gain an action point at the start of every combat. Can spend > 1 AP per combat, no more than 1 per round.
18th: Extra Encounter power, Replace a Daily power
24th: Replace an Encounter power with a higher level one
28th: Replace a Daily power with a higher level one
30th: Replace both a Daily and an Encounter power

Finally, at level 11 their at-wills go to 2[W], and at level 21 to 3[W].

Together, that should generate PCs that are 'worth' about twice as much XP.

I'd also require that your pick of encounter powers be 'balanced'. You must have at most 1 more encounter power from one class as another. You cannot have 2 encounter powers of the same level from one class.

The progression at level 30 should look something like:
29/29/25/25/19 Daily
27/27/23/23/17/13 Encounter

[fractic]

Looking good Yakk. How would you go about paragon paths and epic destinies, and how about multiclass feats?

[Yakk]

No multiclass feats. You are already 2 classes, don't get greedy.

You get 1 paragon path, 1 epic destiny.

[Dentarthur]

Considering how weak multiclassing is to begin with (OK, the initial feat can be pretty good, but after that you might as well be setting your feats on fire), and since gestalt characters are supposed to be uber-powerful anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Multiclassing as normal, one paragon path from either class, one epic destiny.

Hmm...

1. Be a Ranger/Warlock gestalt
2. Take Sneak of Shadows
3. +4d6 once per encounter with combat advantage
4. Profit!

[Yakk]

Multiclass feats are already decent. No, really, they are, if chosen properly. (Yes, if you just pick things at random, they are no good).

The issue is that you already have an assload of possible synergy -- adding yet more ... seems questionable.

[1of3]

- the same number of powers as a normal character, but chosen freely from both classes' power lists

That would be the biggest balance issue. There are "feature classes" and "power classes". Let's combine Rogue and Barbarian. Who would take Rogue attacks? Barbarian powers are always better.



If you want something like gestalt give all PCs a class template.