Bull rush + charge

[arkol]

Here's the link to bullrush to save veryone sometime:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/spe...s.htm#bullRush

Now my question is:

When you make a bullrush (no improved bullrush feat) as part of a charge what happens?

- You move, attack with whatever weapon you have, then the bullrush effect kicks in

OR

- You move and perform a bullrush, without an attack.

[infinitypanda]

I would say you probably just make the bull rush without the attack.

[Temp.]

The Bull Rush is your attack at the end of a charge. So the second one.

[arkol]

You can make a bull rush as a standard action (an attack) or as part of a charge.

As opposed to:

As a melee attack, you may attempt to disarm your opponent.

or

You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack.

So say you have 3 atatcks from high bab and you're makign a full attack. You could make one of those a normal attack, another a trip and yet another a disarm. You couldn't make a bullrush and then make your additional 2 attacks.

So I think we can agree that bullruhes don't follow the same rules as the other "special attacks".

Also, and quoting someone else:

the attack is part of an ordinary charge and it's not explicitly excluded [when bull rushing].

this is kinda weird...

[AslanCross]

A lot of the RAW is pretty weird, but in this case I think it's pretty clear: Trip and Disarm are considered attacks (and as such can be done several times with a full-round action as BAB allows), while the Bull Rush can only be done as a standard action or part of a charge. Bull Rush is more akin to casting a spell performed on its own as a standard action.

I think it makes sense, because knocking weapons out of multiple attackers' hands is easier to do than applying enough force to a person to push him/her back 5 feet in the same span of time.

[Hawriel]

I was playing D&D tonight (tuesday night) and I looked up the bullrush manuver because I wanted to make one. If you bullrush wile charging you get a +2 bonus to your apposed strength roll for pushing. Just like you would get a +2 to hit for hitting with a weapon. Thats it. Maybe because of what ever situation you may be in at the time might modify that more.

Oh and the defender gets an attack of opprotunety. (edit)

[Temp.]

this is kinda weird...

Oh, you're right. My Knockback Fighter threw my rule-recollection powers off a little.

I think the rules are just badly worded; the Bull Rush is supposed to take the place of the attack, whether it's technically an attack or not.

[Roderick_BR]

If you mean you want to make a charge, hitting your enemy for damage, AND do a bull rush, you can't. That would be 2 separate actions, and you can normally do only one in a charge.
There's some feats and magic itens that do allow that, though, and usually you can just push them back 1 or 2 squares.