4e One-Class Party

[Dentarthur]

I was just contemplating an all-cleric party, and what part each race would play in the group. If you were to create a party of 4-5 characters, all the same class, each a different race, what class would you use? How would you build the characters? Ideally, you should be prepared for anything the DM can throw at you.

[EvilElitest]

Isn't 4E designed to have the class work off each other?
from
EE

[Blackfang108]

Isn't 4E designed to have the class work off each other?
from
EE

Not the point of this topic, EE.

Well, you could have the D-Born be the controller.

set up a Lazer Cleric for Damage.

Tiefling for Melee damage.

hmm...

[Tengu_temp]

Warlords have better damage than clerics, slightly worse healing (but with 4 of them you will already have more healing than you can shake a stick at) and better AC. It'd be a melee party, lackluster at range, though.

[EvilElitest]

Not the point of this topic, EE.

Well, you could have the D-Born be the controller.

set up a Lazer Cleric for Damage.

Tiefling for Melee damage.

hmm...

um, yeah it is, i'm skeptical taht such a combo would work, because taht is what the game is designed to do

[Kurald Galain]

If you were to create a party of 4-5 characters, all the same class, each a different race, what class would you use? How would you build the characters? Ideally, you should be prepared for anything the DM can throw at you.

I'm afraid that, given the specific class roles, you can't be "prepared for anything", and you will have substantial overlap that most of the characters would feel mechanically the same. I don't think players will have a good time doing this; remember that there really aren't that many build options for a class that are meaningfully different.

Let's see. If you play four controllers, you'll have trouble protecting yourself and die. That's out. If you play four leaders, you'll have trouble dealing enough damage to, well, anything. If you play four strikers, you'll either clear the encounter swiftly, or you'll die; it swings heavily and you'll have problems healing. And if you play four controllers defenders, you'll have problems if there's a lot of minions.

I think four warlords or four paladins could work, because they both have decent damage and decent healing. Only it'll be really, really boring except as a thought exercise (unless you're basing this mostly on roleplaying, in which case you'll have fun but it'll be precisely irrelevant what class or even system you're using).

(edit) vv D'oh, yes that's what I meant.

[Artanis]

Let's see. If you play four controllers, you'll have trouble protecting yourself and die. That's out. If you play four leaders, you'll have trouble dealing enough damage to, well, anything. If you play four strikers, you'll either clear the encounter swiftly, or you'll die; it swings heavily and you'll have problems healing. And if you play four controllers, you'll have problems if there's a lot of minions.

Just to check, do you mean four defenders would have problems with minions?

[AgentPaper]

If I did anything, I would go for 5 Dragonborn Paladins, each with a different type of breath. Healing is there, as is area attacks, and you can already take and dish out damage, though not as much as if you had an actual striker of controller. Inferior to a more balanced group, probably, but it could work. Might be interesting if you like RP a lot, and are part of a holy dragonborn military force.

[Dentarthur]

Let's see. If you play four controllers, you'll have trouble protecting yourself and die. That's out.

Several races get +Dex, and if they go the staff route and grab Toughness they can be makeshift tanks. Eladrin staff-wiz + leather armor = 17-18 AC, plus once per encounter Con bonus to AC/Refl. Shield spell for good measure. Still a bit squishy, but it could be worse.

If you play four leaders, you'll have trouble dealing enough damage to, well, anything.

High-Wis laser-cleric with Astral Fire. Eladrin sword-cleric with Eladrin Soldier. Human smashy-cleric with bastard sword proficiency and Str out the wazoo. Or a squad of Warlords giving each other their Int bonus to damage. Not to mention that these guys will last for-smegging-ever by tossing Words at each other all encounter long.

If you play four strikers, you'll either clear the encounter swiftly, or you'll die; it swings heavily and you'll have problems healing.

Agreed on this point. A squad of, say, Rogues could easily cause swift horrible death in one fight and then get trampled in the next.

And if you play four controllers defenders, you'll have problems if there's a lot of minions.

Say what now? Controllers eat minions for breakfast, last I checked. True, that'd be a hurdle. But judicious use of Cleave and multiple-target encounter spells (do they get any? I can't remember) can help in these situations.

I think four warlords or four paladins could work, because they both have decent damage and decent healing. Only it'll be really, really boring except as a thought exercise (unless you're basing this mostly on roleplaying, in which case you'll have fun but it'll be precisely irrelevant what class or even system you're using).

Well, this is a thought exercise, so yeah. You're probably right about leaders (or defender-leader hybrids) being the best shot, as they'll have more healing than you can shake a longsword at.

[JaxGaret]

If you allow multiclassing, the best single-class party would probably be four Strikers multiclassed into Leader, or four Leaders multiclassed into Striker.

An all-Warlock party can be pretty versatile.

[Totally Guy]

The all warlord party would be brilliant.

"You! Attack him now!"
"Ok, now you should attack him."
"You should hit him"
"My turn! Hmmm... how about you hit him."

[JaxGaret]

The all warlord party would be brilliant.

"You! Attack him now!"
"Ok, now you should attack him."
"You should hit him"
"My turn! Hmmm... how about you hit him."

That has "hilarity ensues" written all over it.

[Dentarthur]

The all warlord party would be brilliant.

"You! Attack him now!"
"Ok, now you should attack him."
"You should hit him"
"My turn! Hmmm... how about you hit him."

Better yet, everybody points at the same guy to attack. Three cheerleaders shout from the sidelines while one dude works like a dog, hitting 4+ enemies per round.

"Hit that one!"
"No, hit the other one!"
"Hit the first one again!"
"CRIPES GUYS CUT IT OUT ALREADY!"

[AgentPaper]

Ah jeez, now you got me thinking of a party of 4 warlords, 1 rouge. Hilarity ensues.

Edit: Better yet, have 4 warlords and 1 wizard with magic missile. You can grant ranged basic attacks as well, can't you?

[Artanis]

If you're talking about Commander's Strike, then no, melee basic attack only.

[erikun]

4e is concerned about more than just healing; having enemies swarm over you can be just as bad as running out of ways to heal. You can make up for it somewhat with good planning, but getting surrounded can be a quick end.

As for classes, Warlords can boost each others' defenses and attack, making them good for both defense and killing stuff. Warlocks are really varied, from psudo-healing to status lockdown, so they might manage until them need an actual healer.

[RTGoodman]

I think an all-Paladin party would probably be the most effective. If you allow multiclassing, you could have one or two MC Warlock and another one or two MC Warlord to get some extra damage and ranged abilities (which you'd lack otherwise) and some extra healing and buffing (just in case, but with Paladins probably not that necessary).

[Dentarthur]

Paladin party! (Fwoot.)

Dragonborn paladin: high Cha, radiant powers, big sword, party face
Human paladin: high Str, sword and board, pack mule, climber
Dwarf paladin: high Wis, Healing Hands, decent Cha, spare melee
Elf paladin: decent Wis/Dex/Int, scout, skill monkey (Jack of All), more healing

HP and surges out the wazoo, Lay On Hands on tap, and decent damage from the front-liners at least. Bit weak on skills, but Jack can spread out his stats and improvise. Battles might last forever, but so can these guys.

[Asbestos]

Cleric Party:

Dragonborn with Hurl Breath Feat (from Dragon Magazine) so you can get in at least 1 ranged area attack an encounter.

Elf as a laser cleric (mobile and accurate enough)

A Warforged STR cleric (greater survivability so he doesn't need that healing as often)

Earthsoul Genasi with the Earthshock Feat (also, Dragon Magazine) so you have a reliable way to knock people down 1/encounter if you get surrounded.

And... as the 5th, let's call them the wild card, I'd go with a Drow. Take racial feats like crazy, they'll definitely help (again, check the Dragon Magazine article on the Drow, damn nifty stuff in there)


I can see this party surviving just fine, and I pity any undead they come across.



In a Pally party everyone could mark a different guy... then move freely around provoking OAs since they've got the AC and HP to make it work.

[clericwithnogod]

Something else to figure in is the possibility of background benefits...either a Scales of War background or Forgotten Realms regional benefit (or any future background benfits released). The option of picking up a couple more class skills, a single skill with a higher bonus or basing your starting HP on your best stat would go a ways toward filling in gaps in your skills or adding a little more durability. Team Cleric could handle pretty much anything at that point.

[Tengu_temp]

I am puzzled from where do people get the idea that a party of paladins would have a plenty of healing - 4 paladins in a group means, on average, 8-12 Lay on Hands per day - assuming 3-4 encounters without rest, barely more than having a single Leader. A group of 4 clerics or warlords gets 8 Healing/Inpiring words per encounter, and each of those heals more than Lay on Hands.

[MammonAzrael]

Teiflling Rogue, multiclassed into Warlock. At level 11 take Two Fold Pact (Fey Pact), and have fun making yourself invisible and guaranteeing SA every round.

At least, that's what the Teifling Rogue would do in the all Rogue party.

[RTGoodman]

I am puzzled from where do people get the idea that a party of paladins would have a plenty of healing - 4 paladins in a group means, on average, 8-12 Lay on Hands per day - assuming 3-4 encounters without rest, barely more than having a single Leader. A group of 4 clerics or warlords gets 8 Healing/Inpiring words per encounter, and each of those heals more than Lay on Hands.

Paladins have more that just Lay on Hands. Besides the fact that Paladins have a LOT of healing surges (mine has 11 surges per day) and LoH, they also have a lot of powers spread out over different levels and amounts of usage that give temporary HP (bolstering strike, at-will 1), heal bloodied members AND themselves (invigorating smite, encounter 3), let people spend surges (paladin's judgment, daily 1), and stuff like that. And that's besides the powers that give AC bonuses and such to allies or otherwise shield allies.

Sure, a group of Paladins won't the sheer amount of healing that a party of Warlords or Clerics would, but I think they can heal enough to keep fighting.

[bdh5533]

All Clerics:

Eladrin: STR, DEX, and WIS melee Cleric with Dagger, Sword and Longspear and Multiclass Rogue

Elf: WIS and DEX Laser Cleric With a bow multiclass ranger for hunter's quarry

Dragonborn: STR, minor dex, Melee Cleric (tank)

Half-Elf: Int,Wis, and Dex Laser cleric with scorching burst at will from wizard at will attack powers. multiclass wizard for thunderwave.

[Kurald Galain]

Elf paladin: decent Wis/Dex/Int, scout, skill monkey (Jack of All), more healing

Huh. A paladin with decent int score is still not a skill monkey by a long shot. The paladin skill list is missing too many vital monkeying skills. Besides, by putting points in dex and int you're seriously nerfing your paladinness.

[Asbestos]

Huh. A paladin with decent int score is still not a skill monkey by a long shot. The paladin skill list is missing too many vital monkeying skills. Besides, by putting points in dex and int you're seriously nerfing your paladinness.

I think they're going for the +2 to all untrained skills that Jack of all Trades gives. Its like being half-trained in everything. Also, nerfing the paladiness shouldn't matter too much if everyone else is a paladin.

[its_all_ogre]

actually i think an all warlord party would rock the mostest, they give decent bonuses to allies in range, sure they may lack in causing damage.
but with a human int warlord
db cha warlord
eladrin int warlord
maybe halfling cha warlord

now you can have 2 lead the attack dailies, 2 bastion of defence dailies!
2 furious smashes from the cha warlords, this power rocks a lot, the lords who benefit from this can use wolf pack to enable flanking and off you go.

also multi-class into rogue for sneak attack once per fight.

[Roderick_BR]

Paladin party! (Fwoot.)

Dragonborn paladin: high Cha, radiant powers, big sword, party face
Human paladin: high Str, sword and board, pack mule, climber
Dwarf paladin: high Wis, Healing Hands, decent Cha, spare melee
Elf paladin: decent Wis/Dex/Int, scout, skill monkey (Jack of All), more healing

HP and surges out the wazoo, Lay On Hands on tap, and decent damage from the front-liners at least. Bit weak on skills, but Jack can spread out his stats and improvise. Battles might last forever, but so can these guys.

Get lots a campaign with lots of demons and undead, give them mounts, and you get a mistical version of the Knights of the Round Table game. That's something I'd like to try myself sometime.

[EndlessWrath]

Paladins have more that just Lay on Hands. Besides the fact that Paladins have a LOT of healing surges (mine has 11 surges per day) and LoH, they also have a lot of powers spread out over different levels and amounts of usage that give temporary HP (bolstering strike, at-will 1), heal bloodied members AND themselves (invigorating smite, encounter 3), let people spend surges (paladin's judgment, daily 1), and stuff like that. And that's besides the powers that give AC bonuses and such to allies or otherwise shield allies.

Sure, a group of Paladins won't the sheer amount of healing that a party of Warlords or Clerics would, but I think they can heal enough to keep fighting.

I agree with this assessment. Paladins are also very sturdy and can take a few hits.

Dragonborn Paladin: High Charisma + high Strength + Lots of Radiant powers = Main Striker.
Half Elf Paladin : Bonus Charisma and Con and can take an at will ability from another class.. this is good. Can MC warlord for inspire word + such.
Human Paladin : wild card. Can fill any roll well.
Tiefling Paladin : can do well. Infernal wrath + bonus charisma + int = good for MC into Warlock or Paladin. especially good for warlock ish stuff since he can be a good ranged warrior.
Dwarf paladin : good for healing as said above and they're quite stable..

Overall. Paladins are sturdy, have lots of healing charges, can wear the heaviest of armor and wield most melee weapons. With all the smites and such and all the team buffing...it makes a good crew... Besides, 4 or 5 Divine challenges ALWAYS going on. and you can continue to change targets if you wish, just by switching with another buddy.

Edit: you gotta think which role you wanna fill. Nuker, control, buff, striker, and defender. This also helps since they all have paragon paths.

[Tuataralad]

This is an interesting concept... if all the party went for mega healing clerics, I might actualy not allow it as a DM, because they would just be invincible, but if they all went different races and such, it could work.