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2008-10-17, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
I got to a part in the adventure I'm running where there are a few monsters with charm person or charm monster SLAs, and I'm really not sure how to run these abilities in combat. I've never had a lot of experience using charm spells (as a PC or NPC), and they always struck me more as non-combat spells. The encounter strategy writeup mentions using them to distract or confuse the PCs, but how?
So I'm turning to the Playground: Do any of you use charm spells against your players in combat? How well does it work? What can charm spells actually do, and what can't they do? Any interesting/funny stories?
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2008-10-17, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
Charm spells can be used in combat, but the target gets a +5 bonus on the save.
As for what it can do, that depends on how the target would react if the caster were, in fact, a close trusted friend of his. You can "stretch" that a bit if you can win an opposed charisma check, but to get any benefit of the spell at all you and all your allies must avoid attacking or threatening him - doing that automatically breaks the spell.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
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Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2008-10-17, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
Charm spells are like Command spells except you need a Cha check to get them to comply in general.
Now, the issue with allies will come up: how would he react to protecting one friend from another?
Either, he will grapple/restrain one or he will beat with non-lethal the guy to leave you alone (because lets face it, grapple isn't full proof, knock outs can be).
I remember when I was charmed by a Mind Flayer as a Monk/Psion (I don't know how I failed that save...): I had to beat up my friends in non-lethal or they would have killed my new BFF Mr. Mindflayer (lost Cha check).
Should I add 1/2 the party was still stunned from mind blaat?
Luckily, the Ranger was quick enough to attack the mindflayer making him flee as I beat up on the Barbarian to leave my Mr. Mindflayer alone (nonj-lethal of course).
The Charm wore off soon enough as everyone came out of stun. I apologized to the Barb; but hey no harm done. He was still rather angry at me, but no reprocussions occurred.
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2008-10-17, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
A charm spell makes you the trusted friend and ally of the target. If it has little loyalty to its other allies, this could make it turn against them. If it trusts its allies and regards them as friends, then it will stand there and probably and try to stop both sides coming to blows.
Funny story: Although not charm related per se... this is still funny and related. WARNING SPOILERS FOR THE SAVAGE TIDE ADVENTURE PATH AHEAD!!!
In the ruins of Tamoachan, the party found a gibbering mouther in a well. It managed to confuse my dwarven barbarian/fighter/berserk/frenzied berserker into attacking his allies. Now, you need to understand that my character was right next to the party rogue, and IC I intensely disliked this character and OOC I wasn't impressed with the character either. So when the Gibbering Mouther made me attack my closest ally, who happened to be the rogue, an evil smile crossed my face IC and OOC. The player whined that I was deliberately targeting him, and the DM said that I couldn't use frenzy, rage, battle fury or power attack as it would be metagaming on my part. I reluctantly agreed and nearly took the rogue's head off with one attack. The Confusion ended, but I said that as it was something I sorely wanted to do anyway, perhaps I should take another will save to resist the urge to chop him the rogue in two. The DM agreed, I rolled low, but passed anyway.
And that's the story of how I nearly killed the party rogue, and there's no doubt that if the monster had used charm person or suggestion on me, I would have pulped the rogue.
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2008-10-17, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Oh gods i wish i knew
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
I tend to use it to avoid combat actually, or avert it, or turn it to my favor when i start
from
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2008-10-18, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
Remember that Charm spells create a friendship, but they don't destroy the old one.
So, if you get charmed, and your "friends" are fighting each other, you're not going to attack your friends (the people you adventure with), but you will stop them from hurting your "friends" (the people who charmed you). You'll use non-lethal damage, if necessary, but you're not going to try to kill them (unless you would anyway).The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
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There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2008-10-18, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
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2008-10-18, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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2008-10-18, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
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2008-10-18, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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2008-10-18, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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2008-10-18, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
On DMPCs: "Remember, nothing will spice up your campaign quicker than long descriptions of NPC’s doing spectacular stuff while the players sit around and watch." -Shamus Young, DM of the Rings
Divide By Zero: Irreverent Fool, you are my hero.
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2008-10-18, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- center of earth
Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
Theres this one person in my group whom I actually would like to just be able to attack.
But anyway, why would you trust someone you just met over your party, who (by now) has saved your life on numerous occasions. unless the party specificly attacks the monster charming you, and the monster doesn't fight back, you'd have no reason to attack them.
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2008-10-18, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Mountain View, CA
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Re: [3.5] Do Charm spells really work in combat?
Because there's magic involved. The guy you just met is, in your forcefully distorted view of the world, not just your friend but your best friend. Never mind that you only met him less than a minute ago and until even more recently were quite intent on killing him, if you fail the save against Charm Person the spell forces you to ignore that and view him as a close trusted friend.
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2008-10-18, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Oh gods i wish i knew
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