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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    I think that's a slightly... unwise choice Haley and Celia have made there. Yes, Belkar is hard to control, but in what daydream are the girls living, thinking they'll get another ally close to his strength in enemy-dominated Greysky City?

    They basically just bet their leader's/boyfriend's life on the vague hope that maybe, in the Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy, some high level character is hanging about willing to help them for little to no money (as they won't be able to pay him and the cleric, I presume). All morality aside (freeing Belkar from the curse would be for an important cause in this case, after all), I find that a little moronic
    Last edited by Zordrath; 2008-10-21 at 08:36 AM.
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Well they have theCleric now. And when th guild people break in they'll probably reverse that 'don't cure him' decision with a 'crap weneed him' moment.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zordrath View Post
    I think that's a slightly... odd choice Haley and Celia have made there. Yes, Belkar doesn't obey anyone, but in what daydream are Haley and Celia living, thinking they'll get another ally close to his strength in enemy-dominated Greysky City?

    They basically just bet their leader's/boyfriend's life on the vague hope that maybe, in the Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy, some high level character is hanging about willing to help them for little to no money (as they won't be able to pay him and the cleric, I presume).
    Nope. Or, at least, not quite.

    Haley is not going to waste money on attempting to remove a high-level curse with no guarantee that it will succeed (password-protected, remember), when Belkar brought the curse upon himself. As you point out, they do not have money to waste.

    Belkar is highly unreliable at the best of times. When Haley threw him out of the order (before the post-oracular memory wipe) she explained the position in great detail.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    That's true, it would be risky business. But, unlike the "Let's look if there's a person in this city who is powerful, not bound by the Thieves' Guild, not as evil as Belkar and willing to help out for free"-approach, this was the first real chance they had of raising Roy in a long time, and they wasted it. It might not have succeeded, but it just as well could have. Given that they're sorta desperate and have no other options, I think they should have gone for it.
    Last edited by Zordrath; 2008-10-21 at 08:43 AM.
    "Sacrifing minions: is there any problem it CAN'T solve?"

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Keep in mind that if they remove the curse, Belkar is no longer bound to Roy's body or the "no killing in a city" rule. At that point, Belkar has no reason whatsoever to help Haley and Celia, and would likely go straight to the Thieves Guild, sell them out, and high tail it out of town with the reward. And that's if he doesn't kill them himself first.

    Remember that up to the point where he got the curse, he was being paid and had the combined might of a fighter, cleric, and wizard to keep him in check. Haley and Celia are in no way capable of preventing him from doing whatever he wants if the curse is removed. Not to mention that Roy put the curse on him specifically because he doesn't want Belkar free to kill people. (And become a recurring villain, as I recall V saying.)

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolem View Post
    Well they have theCleric now. And when th guild people break in they'll probably reverse that 'don't cure him' decision with a 'crap weneed him' moment.
    I think it's kind of moot. The cleric doesn't have it prepared in any case. This might be where Belkar dies.

    Edit: Don't mind the strike through. It's just evidence I should take some remedial reading classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfTW View Post
    At that point, Belkar has no reason whatsoever to help Haley and Celia, and would likely go straight to the Thieves Guild, sell them out, and high tail it out of town with the reward. And that's if he doesn't kill them himself first.
    Well, I'm not sure he'd kill them himself. They are probably both firmly on the 'lust' list.

    (And become a recurring villain, as I recall V saying.)
    Oh the potential irony...
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-21 at 11:53 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    My prediction: they reconsider after realizing the enemy are coming. Belkar's mark is removed, and he helps them fight.

    Further out on the limb: Belkar may very well die helping them. His death has been predicted, and this is a BAD situation they are in.

    Even further: They need a higher level cleric who is familiar with Durkon...and they are in contact with clerics of Loki.......nah.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Thumbs up Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfTW View Post
    Keep in mind that if they remove the curse, Belkar is no longer bound to Roy's body or the "no killing in a city" rule. At that point, Belkar has no reason whatsoever to help Haley and Celia, and would likely go straight to the Thieves Guild, sell them out, and high tail it out of town with the reward. And that's if he doesn't kill them himself first.

    Remember that up to the point where he got the curse, he was being paid and had the combined might of a fighter, cleric, and wizard to keep him in check. Haley and Celia are in no way capable of preventing him from doing whatever he wants if the curse is removed. Not to mention that Roy put the curse on him specifically because he doesn't want Belkar free to kill people. (And become a recurring villain, as I recall V saying.)
    Double kudos on the logic, and comic knowledge Nerf!

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Belkar cant be trusted. Belkar without the Mark or Roy is a danger for absolutely everyone, especially Haley and Celia.

    Come on, as soon as they get rid of his mark, do you really think Belkar is gonna help them resurect the only man with enough authority and power to keep him in a short leash? Get real.

    But Nerf already said that so what I want to add is that even if Belkar could be trusted, no its not unwise. Letting Belkar face his punishment instead of healing him is just more good. Good acts are usually less practical then neutral or evil act, but it sure as hell doesnt make it unwise.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-21 at 10:39 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepShadow View Post
    My prediction: they reconsider after realizing the enemy are coming. Belkar's mark is removed, and he helps them fight.
    I noted it above, but it bears repeating: they cannot cure Belkar before the fight even if they want to. The cleric does not have Remove Curse prepared today.

    Edited for being dead wrong.
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-21 at 11:52 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKA_Bait View Post
    I noted it above, but it bears repeating: they cannot cure Belkar before the fight even if they want to. The cleric does not have Remove Curse prepared today.
    ...I think you have to read the panel 11 again.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-21 at 10:47 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Veratio View Post
    Double kudos on the logic, and comic knowledge Nerf!
    To be fair, I looked up the exact instances where Belkar had an option of leaving because someone in another thread was accusing Rich of not explaining why Belkar hasn't run off yet. He needed a bodyguard after fleeing jail, then he wanted to kill things on the starmetal quest, then he was captured by Miko. (prior to which he was trying to get revenge on her horse)

    Since then, the only reason he's been with the team is the Mark of Justice, as stated by Rich in one of the commentaries.


    People tend to forget that Belkar is really evil. (I can see why, the instances where he had a choice were years ago, and I just have this annoyingly photographic memory for comics and NOTHING ELSE.)


    Oh, and not to mention he's stated that he hates fighting undead because they don't scream, so he isn't likely to help with the golems like he would with goblins/kobolds/ogres.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    And readers of Origin of PCs get to see Belkar being Even More Really Evil.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Querzis View Post
    ...I think you have to read the panel 11 again.
    Indeed I did. Pardon me as I hide under this large pile of shame.
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-21 at 11:51 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zordrath View Post
    I think that's a slightly... unwise choice Haley and Celia have made there. Yes, Belkar is hard to control, but in what daydream are the girls living, thinking they'll get another ally close to his strength in enemy-dominated Greysky City?
    Thing is you never really know with Belkar

    Why did you just kill the cleric of Loki who removed the curse?
    What? He's got no name and he's a cleric of Loki. He's evil. If it's not OK for me to kill evil, who can I kill?
    Now we can't get Roy resurrected even if we get his body back.
    No sweat. It's just another plot twist to make this side-arc longer brought to you by The Sexy Shoeless God of War.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Of course, they could- in theory- remove Belkar's Mark of Justice centred on Roy, and replace it with one Haley (or somebody else)... Thus restoring Belkar's combat utility whilst allowing them to maintain control over him...

    Possible replacement clause of 'may not kill anything without an evil alignment'.

    Gives Belkar the ability to kill the obvious stuff, but forces him into inaction when stuff isn't so obvious.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    She's not going to waste the money needed to rezz Roy just to heal Belkar.

    Although that might come back to bite her if one of the Thieves Guild mates off him.

    (Belkar manages to take a dagger and kill the halfling thief, but not before being stabbed himself)
    BELKAR!!!
    I'm still the sexy...shoeless....God...of....War...(dies)
    Last edited by Belkster11; 2008-10-21 at 01:17 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    But well... it's not even worth trying if they don't know the password.
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    and don't know that a ghost who does know is there
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    I think, by implication of what the cleric said, he can remove the bad effects, effectively resetting it to as it was before it went off, but not remove it, without password.

    I do not know for certain, but based on wording in the comic, I think this is how The Giant is doing it.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolem View Post
    Well they have theCleric now. And when th guild people break in they'll probably reverse that 'don't cure him' decision with a 'crap weneed him' moment.
    And Resurrection takes 10 mins to cast.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I think, by implication of what the cleric said, he can remove the bad effects, effectively resetting it to as it was before it went off, but not remove it, without password.
    But, since our new second favourite cleric mentioned it- was he about to say that he knew the password before Haley cut him off?
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  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    The moment the curse is removed, Belkar either goes for Haley's throat or sides with the bad guys. That's my prediction.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    I believe that Belkar is a horrible little craphead and certainly deserves to be cursed for his evil actions. However...I also think that it is quite foolish to leave him cursed when there is such a good chance at reserecting Roy. Quite frankly, Celia and Haley need him. They have no one else powerful enough to storm the castle and retireve Roy's remains. But he's not about to just help them out for no reason. It would completley go against the little psychopath's nature. But, as it has been shown before, Belkar can be tricked. Just tell him that there's something in it for him, get Roy's remains back, let the little bastard throw a hissy fit, and resurect Roy. I honestly doubt he would actually just kill Haley and Celia, This is for two reasons. 1) As mentioned by someone else they are most likely planted firmly on the Lust List. 2) He would most likely fear that Roy would be resurected somehow eventually and come after the Belkster as retribution.

    Just my thoughts
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepShadow View Post
    Even further: They need a higher level cleric who is familiar with Durkon...and they are in contact with clerics of Loki.......nah.
    This one has been beaten to death already. I hope so, but it's probably not going to happen. They will remove Belkar's curse, and he will go all 'Sexy Shoeless God of War' on the Guild.
    Last edited by Linkavitch; 2008-10-21 at 05:46 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    I thik they will cure Belkar and he then will stab Blind Pete's eyes out.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hero 1.0 View Post
    I thik they will cure Belkar and he then will stab Blind Pete's eyes out.
    I don't know. Once Pete has his eyes back, he might have enough levels in Rogue to get away (even with age affecting him, though I've never been sure about the age rules). He might be more careful this time.
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    He's a WITCH!!! BURN HIM!!!
    Wait! We should make sure that he's a witch before burning him. Do you know if he weighs the same as a duck?
    My correct prediction.


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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I think, by implication of what the cleric said, he can remove the bad effects, effectively resetting it to as it was before it went off, but not remove it, without password.

    I do not know for certain, but based on wording in the comic, I think this is how The Giant is doing it.
    I got the impression that he knew the password to dispell it completely. Though I suppose that would work too. But that wouldn't be much help in a battle, since he'd just set it off again.


    Also, I'd assume that given the large possiblity of death here, the Cleric of Loki might give them a discount on curing Belkar. And by that I mean, he'll cure him if it'll mean he has a better chance of living.

    What I want to know is when/if the curse is removed, is it like a remove-all, or will he still be fairly weak from possible sleep deprivation/not eating/other side effects?
    Last edited by Boaromir; 2008-10-23 at 12:11 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbard55 View Post
    2) He would most likely fear that Roy would be resurected somehow eventually and come after the Belkster as retribution.
    "Somehow"? "Eventually"? Since when does Belkar do long-term planning?
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Belkar's punishment more important than Roy?

    Well it's more that she'd rather die than accept his help since she secured their return with the message, Celia is the only one in real danger here.
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