D&D 3.5: Tricky situation in yesterday's session, input please

[Will_Shakespear]

Hi there,

in yesterday's session a tricky situation occurred. I'd appreciate any helpful input on that, if possible back up your statements with quotations of the corresponding rules. Thanks in advance.

Now here is the situation.
I'm playing an Abjurer / Master Specialist / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil.
Yesterday we were getting deeper and deeper into the Underdark and a tough fight with some Drow occurred. Somewhere in mid battle my Abjurer used her Greater Invisibility spell and in the following round got into melee range. She had one (blue) veil active as a personal warding. It happened then, that the Drow Blackguard wanted to get to our Corellon Cleric and by that ran into my invisible Abjurer.
So how is that handled according to the RAW? The Blackguard did enter the square my char was in, my char did not had any weapon to use against the Blackguard, so no AoO. But what would have happened with the veil, would the Drow be running into it and suffering its effects? We handled the situation that way, that the Blackguard ran into my char, did not suffer the veil's effect, and then attacked my char with his Greatsword, eventually killing my Abjurer.
What do you guys say? How would you have handled this?

Cheerio

Will

[Jack_Simth]

He voluntarily (if not knowingly) went into your space, and thus, into your ward. He should make a save vs. the Warding (as it is a sphere with the diameter of your space, he went through it).

Do note that it's spell-like, it permits SR - which means as a Drow Blackgaurd (Racial SR, Racial Charisma Bonus, a class ability to add Charisma to saves, and a good base Fort save), he had pretty good odds of getting through unscathed regardless.

[kamikasei]

But what would have happened with the veil, would the Drow be running into it and suffering its effects?

Why wouldn't it?

[BobVosh]

Three ways I can see to handle it.
1: Count it as a bullrush attempt againist you. This one is most optimal if he is charging.
2: Hits you (you don't let him pass through your square), activates veil and swings at your invisible self.
3: You chose to let him pass, doesn't activate veil.

Although I almost never use bullrush rules 2 & 3 remind me a lot of em.

that the Blackguard ran into my char, did not suffer the veil's effect, and then attacked my char with his Greatsword, eventually killing my Abjurer.

Why didn't he activate the veil?

[Will_Shakespear]

I have to mention, that it became very late yesterday and almost all of us had to get out of bed early today to get to work or college. So at the end the encounter and the actions became a bit hasty.
The thing our DM referred to is the "Any creature striking at her..." part in the personal warding's description as the only trigger method. But we left that special situation open for further investigation and there will be no problem if I confront my DM with this new input.
So thank you guys so far, cause you confirm my point of view.

[Jack_Simth]

I have to mention, that it became very late yesterday and almost all of us had to get out of bed early today to get to work or college. So at the end the encounter and the actions became a bit hasty.
The thing our DM referred to is the "Any creature striking at her..." part in the personal warding's description as the only trigger method. But we left that special situation open to further investigation and there will be no problem if I confront my DM with this new input.
So thank you guys so far, cause you confirm my point of view.

Considering the Blackgaurd had to strike at you to hurt your character, that shouldn't be an issue.

[Will_Shakespear]

As I read it, the personal warding does fill out the initiate's complete square. IMO that means that: a) i could not let the Blackguard pass and b) the Blackguard would have suffered the veil's effect cause he entered my square (unvoluntarily, but that doesn't matter).

[Will_Shakespear]

There is another question concerning the warding: when exactly does the effect occur? So when an enemy strikes at an initiate in melee does he suffer the effect before the melee attack affects the initiate? Or does the initiate at first suffer from the melee attack and then the warding's effect is dealt with? There is no clear wording in the warding's description as far as i read it.

[Another_Poet]

There is another question concerning the warding: when exactly does the effect occur? So when an enemy strikes at an initiate in melee does he suffer the effect before the melee attack affects the initiate? Or does the initiate at first suffer from the melee attack and then the warding's effect is dealt with? There is no clear wording in the warding's description as far as i read it.

It's not much of a warding if it lets you hit them before it activates.

It surrounds you and, therefore, he must go through ti before dealing you damage.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, the ward triggers before the attack resolves. The Blackguard should have tried to make his save prior to damage being rolled.

That said, a creature can always move through a square if the square is occupied provided the occupying creature allows the movement. This happens primarily when you move through your allies squares (they pretty much automatically give consent) or through the squares of unconsious friends/foes (unconsious people always give consent). In the case of invisible characters, its up to the individual whether or not you choose to allow the character into your square or not. The only stipulation is that the moving creature can't end its turn in your square, since 2 small/medium creatures can't occupy the same space. Don't have the page number, but its in the PHB under movement in the combat chapter. If you allowed him to pass through your square, there is almost no way he could have detected your presence at all without Blind Sense/Sight, Scent, Tremorsense, or an obscene spot check.

That said, even if you are invisible, wards (being composed of broken prismatic light) should be visible. Thus the Blackguard in question should have noted the presence of the ward and not attempted to pass through the square.

That said, no Greater Mirror Image? That spell is CRAZY good at the whole CYA role. You obviously don't have Illusion barred, because you cast G Invis. If you get rezed or arbitrated to be less dead than you are now, I'd definitely look into buying/researching/learning that spell. Immediate action to reduce your chance to get hit to like, 1 in 9 is rediculously good, and I don't think I'd ever bar Illusion because of that spell.

[imperialspectre]

Greater Mirror Image wouldn't help if the wizard was still invisible, because Mirror Image doesn't affect invisible targets or blind attackers.

There would still be a hefty miss chance given that the wizard was invisible, and yes, the ward should have triggered and there's no way the blackguard would "run into" the abjurer.

[Will_Shakespear]

Thanks for all your input, guys. Will check that with my DM.

One thing: i doubt that an initiate with an active personal warding will be able to let an enemy pass, because the warding fills out the initiate's entire square. Just my opinion right now.

Keld, you're right, we did not consider that my char should have easily been detected because of her active blue veil.

Again, thank you, guys.

[Person_Man]

Whatever the DM says. I'd have ruled it as setting off the veil, and his movement stops as he runs into you. He moves through your square, which counts as difficult terrain because you're in it unintentionally bumping into him.

Also, I hope this has taught you a valuable lesson. Always carry a weapon (and when possible, make it a reach weapon). You never know when the chance to hit an enemy will come up. In addition, if you have a familiar, it would have gotten an AoO as well, and would share your Improved Invisibility and any other spell buffs you had up.