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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphmerridew View Post
    She needed to be summoned to get through the Cloister spell.
    How does that prove she can planeshift? The pendant was probably some sort of Conjuration [Calling] effect specifically attuned to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by derfenrirwolv
    Mechanically, Haley should be almost useless against a rogue of 4th level or above. Uncanny dodge allows you to keep your dex bonus, and thus avoid being sneak attacked. I think the only ways around that are immobilization (hold person spells, grappling etc) and using feint.
    That's a good point. Either Toby has not reached above fourth level in his career, or Haley just used a feint.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by derfenrirwolv View Post
    Mechanically, Haley should be almost useless against a rogue of 4th level or above. Uncanny dodge allows you to keep your dex bonus, and thus avoid being sneak attacked. I think the only ways around that are immobilization (hold person spells, grappling etc) and using feint.
    Not exactly. If you are a rogue four levels higher than a rogue with uncanny dodge, the anti-sneak attack portion is negated.

    Awesome comic, btw. I really, really, really hope Celia doesn't die. Y'know, i, for one, would be perfectly happy if Celia replaced Belkar in the Order. Belkar started out funny, but as the strip got a more serious tone and he started massacring innocents in our view, he stopped being funny.

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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by luxgladius View Post
    Can she not simply Planeshift out if the fighting gets bad?
    IIRC, Outsider teleport and planeshift powers tend to only affect them and some amount of gear. It's unlikely she could take everyone important with her.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Haley might hate most of her ex-guildmates, but what about Hank the Halfling?

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    He was the one that told her to flee the city because he didn't want to see Bozzok have her killed.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2008-10-23 at 10:52 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    I believe the last three panels are the best example of initiative that I've seen in a while.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Now the only fumble that could happen is that, that Celia's drawing of Durkon isn't good enough to make the Sending spell work. Though unlikely, considering how much time we were forced to wait for this moment.
    Creating things is satisfying.

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dziadek View Post
    Now the only fumble that could happen is that, that Celia's drawing of Durkon isn't good enough to make the Sending spell work. Though unlikely, considering how much time we were forced to wait for this moment.
    Moreover, I worry that nameless Cleric will tell her it was a success regardless (does Haley have any way of knowing that it worked? Wouldn't she need Spellcraft for that or something?) and that Haley will end up paying him triple for a spell that didn't even work...

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SPoD View Post
    And what would she have done with him afterwards? She knows she can't control him. Plus, she already refused to have him de-cursed in front of him, so if he is de-cursed now, he may well turn on her.
    Yep -- even if he didn't turn on her because he's POd about the initial refusal, he'd become even more uncontrollable in the future because relenting would be seen as a sign of weakness.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2008-10-23 at 09:52 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondeye View Post
    When you've only got one way into a place, your options for a sneaky attack are limited. It isn't like the thieves have Bangalore Torpedos or breeching charges.
    "Well,...we have these "Uruk-hai" suicide bombers...!"

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    They were scrolls. Scrolls require just a standard action to use.
    Or the casting time of the spell, whichever is greater. Seems like a screwup more likely.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    It's a set of stairs inside a house, it's not like he can order a full cavalry charge.
    Cavalry charge? No these are rogues. But he should be order the Flying Walendas. More on this here.
    Last edited by HamsterOfTheGod; 2008-10-23 at 10:53 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    This is the text from the SRD which specifies a standard action for scrolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by D20SRD
    Spell Completion
    This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All thatís left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he canít already cast the spell, thereís a chance heíll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.
    Last edited by Ashtar; 2008-10-23 at 10:14 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Spell completion item: contains partially cast spell, all thats needed is a few gestures. See PHB for spell completion items which are, typically, scrolls.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    Haley might hate most of her ex-guildmates, but what about Hank the Halfling.

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    He was the one that told her to flee the city because he didn't want to see Bozzok have her killed.
    I was wondering about that too. Personally, I think

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    That Haley will probably offer Hank the opportunity to flee, or at least try not to kill him if it comes down to it. Depending on how this goes, Hank could end up in charge of the Thieves Guild at the end of the day.


    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Or the casting time of the spell, whichever is greater. Seems like a screwup more likely.
    Even if it's not the rules, which I'm inclined to think it is, I suspect it was probably more of a case of funny trumps rules. The joke was all about how few words you get with the spell. That wouldn't really work if it was ten minutes bettween bits of dialogue.
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Ah, taking justified revenge on all the major jerks from your years at home.

    Haley seems to be lucky in that regard.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    I don't think the cleric of Loki can cure Belkar. In 602, after explaining Belkar's problem was the Mark of Justice, the cleric said, "Anyway I don't have that spell prepared today, so --". Belkar is not getting cured today no matter what.

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Er, the phrase was "Anyway, I do have that spell prepared today, so.."

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Go Haley!

    Good comic.
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Isn't Celia summoned? So doesn't that preclude the whole dying thing?
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Homebrew weirdness. Summonables don't usually stick around for days.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Something just struck me as weird, although it's just me: the way Haley nonchalantly refers to George as a wife-beater. I'm lucky enough to be raised in a family without anything like that in it, although we tend to view people who do that with contempt at best, loathing at worst. To me, it's a really horrible thing to do, so Haley calling someone who does it merely an ******* doesn't do my feelings on the issue justice.

    Of course, Haley is about to dispense "justice" on George, so it's no real biggie.

    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Isn't Celia summoned? So doesn't that preclude the whole dying thing?
    The magic effect is probably a Conjuration [Calling] effect which, as far as I know, generally doesn't have a time limit.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2008-10-23 at 10:46 AM.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Koshiro View Post
    Oh, come on. By this reasoning, she wouldn't have even brought him along.
    Quote Originally Posted by kierthos View Post
    Ah, but until the Loki-cleric told her it was a curse, she thought he had some sort of disease. She brought him along because she thought he was still operating under the MoJ. And point of fact, Belkar didn't remember activating the curse either, so he still acted like it could still be triggered. (Actually, he's been doing little but vomit, but that's not the point.)
    The last time she knew it was a curse she was PLANNING to abandon Belkar and not bring him along. Then the memory charm hit.

    So yep, she shouldn't have brought him along if she thinks that way. And we KNOW that she wouldn't have brought him along had she known it was the mark of justice. Koshiro has successfully pointed out how consistent Haley's actions are.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdnumber1 View Post
    Pete would have lights in case of company/from when he could see (he wouldn't tear down torch mountings and his guests would light them.) The place was probably made before his blindness to offer a single, obvious entry that was advantageous to the defender (chokepoint on stairs )
    Besides... everyone knows that Thieves go skulking around dimly lit areas looking for things of value. No self-respecting Thief would check a brightly lit area to find something that was being hidden!

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Not exactly. If you are a rogue four levels higher than a rogue with uncanny dodge, the anti-sneak attack portion is negated.
    That is true for improved uncanny dodge, which protects against flanking. But even a level 20 rogue cannot bypass a 4th level rogue's uncanny dodge (other than the methods mentioned -- immobilizing, feinting (which can't be done with a ranged weapon, barring some prestige class abilities), and a few others).

    This is quite likely another case of funny trumping rules, assuming the target had at least 4 rogue levels. It would be just as easy to say, though, that the dude didn't have 4 rogue levels.
    Last edited by Zherog; 2008-10-23 at 11:03 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    If Celia is killed then she is exiled to her plane of origin and can not return to the prime material for a set amount of time... really really long time.

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Man, the way Belkar is being treated i'll be surprised if he even wants to help now.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    There is a lot of confusing info on that in various D&D sources.

    Standard rule is summoned creatures are just fine on their own plane, can come back any time.

    Called creatures may get barred for a set time (100 years and a day?) or demoted (demons get demoted sometimes) Or, might die forever.

    True resurrection does work on slain extraplanar outsiders "sifts through plane and reconstitutes it"

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I don't think the cleric of Loki can cure Belkar. In 602, after explaining Belkar's problem was the Mark of Justice, the cleric said, "Anyway I don't have that spell prepared today, so --". Belkar is not getting cured today no matter what.
    You know, I made that exact same reading mistake. Part of me now wonders if there was originally a typo and the Giant quickly fixed it. Mind telling me when you read the 602?

    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Isn't Celia summoned? So doesn't that preclude the whole dying thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Somber Requiem View Post
    If Celia is killed then she is exiled to her plane of origin and can not return to the prime material for a set amount of time... really really long time.
    It's more likley she was Plane Shifted or as mentioned subject to a conjuration calling effect (like Gate) which puts her physically on the material plane where she can really die. Given that we don't know the actual effect in place on Celia (or that brought her to the material plane) we can probably just go ahead and assume she knows what she's talking about.
    Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-23 at 11:20 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    If we go back to description of Cloister, it says he "built a specific exception for summoning spells" into it. Plane shift is blocked though.

    Since Gate works like Plane-shift, I would suspect gating in from another plane wouldn't work.

    Not so sure about Calling effects.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2008-10-23 at 11:28 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #603 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Man, the way Belkar is being treated i'll be surprised if he even wants to help now.
    Nah, I doubt he could resist a little mindless mayhem if he gets cured, which I think he will. And I can see Belkar "checking" to make sure the MoJ is gone by killing the nameless cleric.

    If Haley survives this, she and Belkar will have some issues to resolve. Wouldn't it be like the Giant to get the whole party back together just in time for it to splinter apart.

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