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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    He's ready to kill them - but doesn't.
    He doesn't want to help Roy - but does.
    Trying to kill a teammate - but doesn't.
    He doesn't object to killing them - while under the influence of a charm spell. Doesn't kill them anyway.
    Would have betrayed them - but didn't.
    Ditto.

    Sorry, the point was? Belkar keeps saying that he wants to kill them, betray them, etc, he just never gets round to it?
    ...So we are judging people on efficiency? Yes Belkar never managed to kill or betray them. Honestly I dont get your point. Are you trying to prove that Belkar is incompetent (if thats what you want to do, you succeeded). Does that mean you think anyone who did an attempted murder should get away with it because he failed?

    Well, amaranthine and werewolf, at that point I just think you're hopeless so whatever. If one of your friends try to kill you only to be stopped by four policeman, which is pretty much what happened in the Elan example, have fun arguing he didnt betray you and shoudnt be punished for his action.

    Oh and by the way, I think you should go read what a charm spells does. A betrayal under a charm spell is a betrayal anyway. People are not accountable for their action with domination but not charm. Nale coudnt have forced anyone else to betray the party with a charm spell.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-24 at 01:57 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    That's funny. He didn't kill anyone in any of Querzi's examples...
    Failure does not change the fact that the attempt was made. That's all that matters in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    You think Belkar isn't useful...
    Well, let's see...

    He got half the party captured by bandits.

    He pushed the conflict between Miko and the Order to a disastrous level that eventually resulted in Shojo's death and the crippling of Azure City's ability to defend itself against a hobgoblin invasion.

    He killed the Oracle, thwarting Haley's efforts to revive Roy in a timely fashion.

    You're right: he's not useless. Overall, he's a major hindrance.

    And I find him a very entertaining one.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    Trying to kill a party member for the XP is a betrayal. Having it pointed out that the party can then turn around and do the same thing to him doesn't change that fact.

    Revealing the party's location to an enemy because he wants to set something on fire over the objections of other party members is a betrayal.

    Having the openly stated goal of killing two members of his own party members is a betrayal.
    He didn't kill the party member did he? he hasn't even come close to. If he really was going to kill Elan Belkar would be dead and i know Roy isn't dumb enough to travel with someone like that. The second one is a mistake made by him and every single trigger-happy barbarian. He didn't like Haley's methods and he chose a different one, it was a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    For the clearly stated reason that he hadn't thought it through, and nothing more than that. He tried to change his mind once he knew what it could get him, only to learn that wasn't an option any longer.

    In other words, he'd have accepted the offer if he'd understood it. He'd also have accepted it if he hadn't had access to a cat.
    Yeah, he has also said he wants to kill V and Roy and hasn't gone through with it despite having multiple opportunities of doing it, if he really is that much of a bastard. I don't trust anything Belkar says, you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    By stating the facts you've omitted from the examples cited above? No, the only one guilty of spin here is you.
    Belkar hasn't killed any of his fellow party member's in 600 comics, how is that not a fact? And if he has always been that dangerous why didn't Roy kill him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    Nothing at all.
    Ah, ok. Let's ignore all the good Belkar has done for the Order because of his motivations. It reminds me of Miko in a way, who wanted to killl Belkar just because he was evil, and the order defended him back then because he was helpful. He has saved them at least a couple of times, you can't ignore that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    Maybe, but is it worth opening the homicidal genie's bottle? Haley's history with Belkar tells her it's not.
    Eh, curing him from his curse and telling him to go kill some thieves doesn't seem too difficult. Controlling him afterwards would be the problem but if he is weakened enough it shouldn't be too hard.
    Last edited by Calmness; 2008-10-24 at 02:28 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    You're right: he's not useless. Overall, he's a major hindrance.
    Without Belkar the party would be dead. The two comics in my first post prove that.
    Last edited by Calmness; 2008-10-24 at 02:04 PM.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    and both times, Down in the Dungeon. Party member V has saved Belkar's life too.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Yeah i was answering the post that said he is a hindrance, and to the people that have said Belkar should be killed or abandoned.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    I figure he has Been helpful, but since leaving dungeon, Help moments have gotten rarer and Hindrance moments have gotten commoner.

    Sometimes Hindrance moments have been brought on themselves: setting off lots of Runes on him guaranteees when time comes, he sits back and watches Whack-a-Wizard.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Well, i think i'm done. I put my arguments and if people don't agree with them fine. I'll still answer some posts later.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    We need the sexy shoeless god of war back.
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    "Do you want to be the one to tell him he probably won't get any XP from them?"

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatteredtower View Post
    But after all of them, Belkar is most certainly the most useful party member. Why, if it wasn't for his tracking skills and spellcasting abilities... uh... Oh, hey, how about the way he protected the spellcasters during the first assault on Xykon? Uh... how about the way he kicked Miko in the head after Roy brought her down?
    That was hilarious.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Ah, ok. Let's ignore all the good Belkar has done for the Order because of his motivations. It reminds me of Miko in a way, who wanted to killl Belkar just because he was evil, and the order defended him back then because he was helpful. He has saved them at least a couple of times, you can't ignore that.
    Um, pardon? Miko wanted to kill Belkar because he murdered a guard and then wrote a message in his blood calling her out.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    And if he has always been that dangerous why didn't Roy kill him?
    Roy is about as far from infallible as you can get--without reaching Elan or Belkar, anyway. Citing "Roy didn't do X, therefore X doesn't need doing" doesn't work.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Guys at this point I'm pretty damn sure hes a troll. He had me going for a while but I just dont think its possible to interpret the event of the comic that way no matter how delusionnal you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    He didn't kill the party member did he? he hasn't even come close to. If he really was going to kill Elan Belkar would be dead.
    So you think Belkar was kidding? Wow hes such a good trickster. He even went as far as to imagine Elan as a chunk of XP to make the reader believe he was serious. Yup, it got nothing to do with the simple fact that Elan was running away from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    and i know Roy isn't dumb enough to travel with someone like that.
    Oh so when Roy said to the deva that he realize Belkar is evil but prefer to use him as a chasing dog (while keeping on a short leash) then slit his troat in his sleep, he was kidding too? Yeah that make sense, Roy is known for lying to source of authority for absolutely no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    The second one is a mistake made by him and every single trigger-happy barbarian. He didn't like Haley's methods and he chose a different one, it was a mistake.
    Yes which is why I list it under his usefullness. Wait I think I get your point. It doesnt matter how much times Belkar almost get everyone killed as long as some other people in the world could have done the same thing as him? Wow, you're totally right, I wonder why I never saw it that way before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Yeah, he has also said he wants to kill V and Roy and hasn't gone through with it despite having multiple opportunities of doing it, if he really is that much of a bastard.
    Multiple opportunity to do it? Belkar is kinda stupid sometimes but really not suicidal. Oh wait, you must mean the imaginary strips where Belkar didnt had the Mark of justice anymore and was alone with one of them very far away from the rest of the Order with some major tactical advantage since even alone Roy or V would have really good chance against him? Yeah I loved those imaginary strips too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Belkar hasn't killed any of his fellow party member's in 600 comics, how is that not a fact?
    You're right, the fact that he tried at least three times and showed the intention of killing the rest multiple times means absolutely nothing as long as he dont succeed. Because, after all, the Giant got nothing better to do then let Belkar kill one member of the Order just to show the very few brain dead people who havent guessed by now that he would do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    And if he has always been that dangerous why didn't Roy kill him?
    I think he explained it very well in that strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html Oh but wait, I forgot, Roy was kidding right? Obviously Roy doesnt really think Belkar would become a recurring villain if left alone and doesnt consider himself his Head Warden!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Ah, ok. Let's ignore all the good Belkar has done for the Order because of his motivations.
    Sure motivation are useless. After all, if someone would help me in a fight not out of loyalty or because hes a good guy but because he wanna slaughter all of them out of fun, I would immediatly trust him and become his best friend!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    It reminds me of Miko in a way, who wanted to killl Belkar just because he was evil, and the order defended him back then because he was helpful. He has saved them at least a couple of times, you can't ignore that.
    Alair answered that... though I have to add that V said specifically that he defended Belkar because he hate Miko even more. Oh but wait, he was kidding too right?

    Really guys, its obvious hes a troll at this point. That or hes actually just reading another comic thats also called the Order of the Stick and got the same characters though they act differently.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-25 at 08:36 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilElitest View Post
    what is this reference too?
    from
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    Firefly TV series & Serenity movie. Half this thread is about it.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    Well, i think i'm done. I put my arguments and if people don't agree with them fine. I'll still answer some posts later.
    This tangential argument about Belkar's usefulness has been very silly on both sides. Both sides are trying to pidgeonhole the Belkar character with brief moments from the comic. Well, that just doesn't work because the comic has been around awhile and Rich's characters are too well developed. And because humor (frequently provided by Belkar's antics) trumps plot and other, more serious things very frequently in the comic.

    Your original question was answered best in post #38. To sum up: Roy was in charge and controlled/accepted Belkar in one way, but he is currently out of the picture. Haley is in charge of Belkar now and is not of the same opinion (about Belkar) as Roy. And with her new awareness of the true MoJ situation, you may see even more against Belkar. But as that post pointed out, everything she has done is totally in character. <<--- Not saying you have to approve, but this is the answer to your question about why Belkar is being treated as he is.

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    If G could pull it off with good hilarity, I'd love to next see a little halfling shield/vomiting/fighting action, with Belkar playing the part of the Eye of Fear & Flame from earlier. Although it would make a mess. And SOMEbody's got to clean up. ***cough*Celia**cough**

    I think Bozzak would look good covered in more green.


    I might add....Belkar seems to be your favorite OOTS character. But don't let it slip into the real world. The ends DO NOT always justify the means, and we don't live in the D&D world.
    Last edited by Spiky; 2008-10-25 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Sp!

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    And, if you accept what WOTC has to say in some of their supplements (some don't) the ends don't justify the means in the D&D verse either.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    ...So we are judging people on efficiency? Yes Belkar never managed to kill or betray them. Honestly I dont get your point. Are you trying to prove that Belkar is incompetent (if thats what you want to do, you succeeded). Does that mean you think anyone who did an attempted murder should get away with it because he failed?
    No, I was pointing out that despite repeatedly stating his desire to kill them and betray them, Belkar has never actually done so. He's an opposite of the classical villain: instead of justifying his evil deeds by self deception and claiming it's for the greater good (as Miko does repeatedly), he justifies his travelling with the OOTS and his ultimately good deeds by continously emphasising his evil:
    - I refused Tsukiko, but only to throw a cat in her face.
    - I need to prevent Hinjo getting killed, but only because I have a duty to the greater evil.
    - I follow Roy around and (generally) follow his orders, but only because I get to kill things.
    - I didn't kill Elan, but only because everyone threatened me.
    - I saved the order several times, but only because it was fun.
    ... and so on.

    Don't get me wrong, he does commit various crimes and immoral actions (killing the guard, the gnome, the oracle etc.) but generally not against the members of the order. He is evil, but maybe he just likes them?

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    - I saved the order several times, but only because it was fun.
    When was this? I've never seen Belkar be anything other than a useless hinderance to the party.
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Way back in dungeon when party was rendered effectively useless by Unholy blight, Belkar saved the party.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
    When was this? I've never seen Belkar be anything other than a useless hinderance to the party.
    Amaranthine gave two examples. Of course, since hes a troll, his example dont really mean anything:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html Here its not the Order but Elan and its not really Belkar who save him but V. V just used belkar as a tool to save Elan.

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html Here for some reason, he seems to assume that single cleric could have defeated the entire party without Belkar help...Unholy blight is annoying but not THAT strong. Especially if that guy could be killed with just one attack with a freaking dagger (its probably his rod that could do unholy blight not him).

    I think thats it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    - I refused Tsukiko, but only to throw a cat in her face.
    - I need to prevent Hinjo getting killed, but only because I have a duty to the greater evil.
    - I follow Roy around and (generally) follow his orders, but only because I get to kill things.
    - I didn't kill Elan, but only because everyone threatened me.
    - I saved the order several times, but only because it was fun.
    ... and so on.
    Yeah so as I already explained in my post where I realize Amaranthine is a troll, if you honestly think Belkar was kidding, you just arent reading the same comic as me. Hell, your example with Hinjo is definitly the worse one. What, he as a long monologue with his two littles devils just to confuse the audience into thinking he was kidding? He had a perfectly good reason to save Hinjo from an evil perspective.

    Please remember that Belkar is not freaking suicidal and that doing any of those would result in the Order kicking his ass. Especially after he get the MoJ. It aint that freaking complicated.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-26 at 07:33 AM.
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
    She even went as far as to say he is a liability despite Belkar having saved the Order at least twice.
    Those were early, more tongue-in-cheek strips. Belkar did not really change all that much, but in these more serious days it is harder to gloss over his loose cannon nature.


    And please don't tell me Belkar can't be trusted. He has had a hundred opportunities to turn on the Order and still chooses to stay loyal.
    It's more like he did not have a strong incentive to cross the line yet, really. He threatened to kill Vaarsuvius, confessed to being tempted to kill the Order for minor benefits, and just barely decided not to betray Roy during the Azure City siege. He IS a liability.

    Heck, he and Elan are the only ones still happy to be on the team, with everyone else being disgusted with each other.
    Not really. Durkon and Haley (and Roy) want to reunite the Order at least as much as Belkar does. The only exception is Vaarsuvius.


    Sorry about the rant, it's just a bit sad to see what was a fun character being treated badly by his "allies".
    I don't see how it could be avoided, however. Not without either putting Belkar through some serious character development (which will probably make him less fun) or returning to the gag format of earlier strips.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    (Disclaimer: I am going to continue with my thesis of Belkar never having actually betrayed any of the OOTS, despite repeatedly claiming to intend to do so. If you find that this is wrong and cannot allow for the possibility of an opinion different than yours, please feel free to mentally label me as a troll as well and ignore my posts.)

    if you honestly think Belkar was kidding, you just arent reading the same comic as me
    Oh gods, I don't think he was kidding, I think it's a clever literary ploy where Belkar, despite being evil with evil intentions ends up doing good - polar opposite of a character like Miko, who uses self-deception to justify evil acts. In fact, in order to have some of Belkar's actions explained away as 'evil' feats of mental gymnastics are necessary. The strip where he's having an argument with two little shoulder devils is a perfect illustration.

    He had a perfectly good reason to save Hinjo from an evil perspective
    A perfectly good reason? It's the most convoluted piece of reasoning ever!

    Just as Miko was a caricature of how some people tend to (badly) role-play lawful good (Paladins especially), Belkar looks to be a take on how one can try and wedge in a supposedly chaotic evil character into a good-aligned party.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Way back in dungeon when party was rendered effectively useless by Unholy blight, Belkar saved the party.
    I hope you aren't equating being Sickened for 1-4 rounds as "rendered effectively useless".


    Sigh, you are aren't you. Look, while a -2 is a pretty big hinderance (especially at lower levels and they were in the 8-10s back then) it did not "render them effectively useless", just somewhat reduced.

    They needed no saving, however it did open the door to a decent joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Querzis View Post
    Amaranthine gave two examples. Of course, since hes a troll, his example dont really mean anything:
    However in responding to the "saved the party on several occasions" I was asking for several examples of saving the party not "two examples of not being a useless dead weight dragging the party down".

    I know you get this, I'm clarifying for the Belkar Apologists.



    Don't get me wrong, dead weight humor is funny. But once the story progressed beyond 1 Liners into meatier Cerebus territory... Belkar started becoming less and less some one to keep around and became more and more someone to leave in a jail that could hold him.


    [EDIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Just as Miko was a caricature of how some people tend to (badly) role-play lawful good (Paladins especially), Belkar looks to be a take on how one can try and wedge in a supposedly chaotic evil character into a good-aligned party.
    That is it exactly. And just like Miko, his time has come to an end.

    I hope Belkar has an appropriately funny/evil moment as he slides into oblivion. I also wouldn't mind seeing what Belkar's "reward" is awaiting him in the afterlife. Maybe kicking puppies and lighting Paladins on fire.

    [/EDIT]
    Last edited by evileeyore; 2008-10-26 at 08:48 AM.
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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    its highly probable they didn't need saving. They looked pretty distressed though. It was, however, a very early strip.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    "Belkar hate" is just Belkar getting the consequences of his actions. I also think that, while some of his one-liners are funny, random violence is not - it gets oooooold quickly.
    Moral preachiness gets old more quickly.

    Look, I don't "like" Belkar as in "if he were real, I'd like to be friends with him". I like him, or used to like him, as a character in a comic book.
    Nowadays, the refreshing anarchy he used to insert into the comic is spoiled by annoying "Belkar is evil! Being evil is bad for you, mmmkay?" I don't like it.

    Put another way...

    Quote Originally Posted by LuisDantas View Post
    Those were early, more tongue-in-cheek strips. Belkar did not really change all that much, but in these more serious days it is harder to gloss over his loose cannon nature.
    I don't like these "more serious days". I have enough "more serious days" IRL, thank you.
    Last edited by Koshiro; 2008-10-26 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Oh gods, I don't think he was kidding, I think it's a clever literary ploy where Belkar, despite being evil with evil intentions ends up doing good - polar opposite of a character like Miko, who uses self-deception to justify evil acts. In fact, in order to have some of Belkar's actions explained away as 'evil' feats of mental gymnastics are necessary. The strip where he's having an argument with two little shoulder devils is a perfect illustration.
    Well at least now I finally see your point and partially agree with it, you should have said it like that in the first place. But really, it doesnt make it good acts by any stretch of imagination. Look if a guy kill a little girl out of fun but the little girl turn out to be a demon in disguise who was about to destroy a village, what he did was still evil anyway. And here I'm not talking about intentions, I also think intentions really dont matter as much as actions when talking about good and evil. I'm talking about accident, like when you had absolutely no intention of doing something but ends up doing it anyway. The strip with Tsukiko is a perfect example. What is Belkar intention? Throwing a cat in someone face. What is Belkar action? He throw mister Scruffy in Tsukiko face. What did he also do when he did that even though that was not his intention and woudnt really matter to him either way? He stayed with the Order and didnt join Team Evil. Its not because Belkar evil actions sometimes end up having good repercussion that it change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    A perfectly good reason? It's the most convoluted piece of reasoning ever!
    Yeah sure. Getting rid of the MoJ isnt as important as seeing Hinjo die. After all, the MoJ didnt greatly limit Belkar fighting ability and free will these last months and its definitly not the reason why Belkar is currently suffering like hell without being able to move a finger. Beside, its not like Belkar was right when he assumed only Hinjo could get rid of the mark since there is absolutely no passwords that keep any other cleric from getting rid of it...oh wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Just as Miko was a caricature of how some people tend to (badly) role-play lawful good (Paladins especially), Belkar looks to be a take on how one can try and wedge in a supposedly chaotic evil character into a good-aligned party.
    Well yeah, thats the point. Thats also what I said in my first post. The problem is that this comic is not just about parodying D&D anymore. While a guy like Belkar got his place in a good team if the story is nothing more then a D&D parody, OOTS is so much more then that now to the point that lots people who read this comic never even played D&D!

    Quote Originally Posted by Koshiro View Post
    Moral preachiness gets old more quickly.
    Its not moral preachiness man. Belkar antics really get old quickly for me but its not because he try to kill everyone. Xykon does the same thing and it never got old as far as I'm concerned, you know why? Because, with the deathtraps, the ball of insanity, the flying zombies and all his experimentation with death and pain, Xykon is actually original and interesting when he kill or torture everyone. Belkar, on the other hand, is just stabbity-stabbity-stab. It really get old, at least for me.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2008-10-26 at 09:24 AM.
    In memory of lord Shojo

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  28. - Top - End - #88
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    I thought, at least for short time, that Belkar's Ways Around The Mark, when dealing with V, were marginally funnier than stabbity stab.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    I'm still waiting for a Belkartown (like Jayne's Town)

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Warren Dew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: What's with the Belkar hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuisDantas View Post
    Not really. Durkon and Haley (and Roy) want to reunite the Order at least as much as Belkar does. The only exception is Vaarsuvius.
    Actually, Durkon thinks it's long past time to change plans and give up on reuniting the order. Vaarsuvius was the one who kept trying to reunite the order for much longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    Just as Miko was a caricature of how some people tend to (badly) role-play lawful good (Paladins especially), Belkar looks to be a take on how one can try and wedge in a supposedly chaotic evil character into a good-aligned party.
    Miko illustrated a perfectly valid way of roleplaying a paladin, as illustrated by her many fans. That particular character type is fine when acting solo; it's when a player tries to wedge it into a more pragmatic party that's annoying.
    Last edited by Warren Dew; 2008-10-26 at 12:17 PM.

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