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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Unwelcomed Entrance
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Brd 1, Assassin 1, Beguiler 1
    Components: S, F
    Casting Time: 1 Standard action
    Range: close (25ft. +5ft. /2 levels)
    Target: one locked object
    Duration: instantaneously

    This spell can be used to use the open lock skill from a distance. When the spell is cast, you can use the open lock skill on any locked object that is in range. If you do not have open lock as a class skill, you can act like you do have it as a class skill for the casting of this spell, but you take a -4 to the skill check. If you fail the check, you can not try again and the spell is wasted and nothing happens. If you succeed in unlocking the locked object, the object dose not open unless an outside force acts upon it. The time it takes to perform the open lock check is not a full round action but instead the same standard action it takes to cast the spell.
    Arcane Focus: A small brass key that pointed at the locked object during the casting of the spell.



    I came up with this spell for a NPC bounty hunter in my new campaign Iím running.
    He likes being able to get and out as quickly as possible, and I thought stopping to take out his thievesí tools and pick the lock manually was to slow for him, so I crated this spell for him. I thought it was cool, so I decided to post it here. Iím open to comments and critiques, mainly about the school the spell is; I donít know if itís a good school for this spell or not.
    Last edited by Bobmufin52; 2008-10-31 at 09:35 AM.
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    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Could be pretty awesome. Stride into a room, pointing a key as you walk, door unlocks with a click, slam it open...

    Looks good. Could even be lower level, like 1 or 2 instead of 2/3.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    It's good, except that Knock is a 2nd level sor/wiz spell with a range of medium that dosn't require a check.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    So drop this to a cantrip, I suppose. Seems valid.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sigurd's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    No way, Think of the rogues who develop the skill.

    With this you can open locks and not have a chance of getting caught and leave no evidence. You'd change all the locks of any value.


    Sigurd.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Yes, but who cares if you 'opened a lock'. The goal of opening a lock is to get into somewhere, and it's not like opening the lock from a distance will stop people from noticing that you've broken into their house.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sigurd's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    The thing is that magic already eats skill monkeys for lunch. This is so easy and doesn't even place the caster at the scene of the crime. Unless this is very rare, difficult and or expensive this will further unbalance the way crime works.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the spell in itself, I just think it falls into a gaming trap that makes things really easy using a magic system with very few checks and most often no appreciable risks or casting costs.

    Highly visible doors have a security to them that should be role played around. If you want a spell, tie it to some effort by the player.

    1. The caster should have no way of knowing if they're successful.
    2. The spell should require a piece of the door being targeted or the caster must place an arcane mark on the lock to be picked.

    It should also be expensive enough that it wont pay to use it for simple break and enters.

    If you don' have wrinkles then the town is going to have real reasons to distrust magic casters and you reduce suspense and tension in the game while making rogue skills even more obsolete.


    my .02,

    Sigurd
    Last edited by sigurd; 2008-10-23 at 11:22 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Well a single classed arcanist has no chance of making the DCs for even the simplest locks in the DMG anyway, so...
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    I agree with Sigurd wholeheartedly. Spellcasters already do enough damage to the skill system, making skill-based classes obsolete very early in the game. This spell (although admittedly well-written & cool) just makes things worse. The underlying concept has the unintended effect of taking more of the spotlight away from skillmonkeys, which are already second-class citizens in the D20 system. Why bother being a Rogue at all, when a Bard can start pwning you consistently by as little as 2nd level?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Thanks for the comments everyone. I guess I'll lower the level of the spell, so it'll be a bard and assassin 1st level spell and 2nd for sorcerer and wizards. I figured it wouldn't be something they could learn right away because sorcerers and wizards aren't (usually) the sneaking, stealthy type.
    Also, I know it makes the manual picking some what pointless, but don't forget, as easy it is to cast a spell to break the laws of the universe, it's just as easy to cast a spell to prevent any other spells from being cast. What I guess I saying is that if you think that the PCs are too powerful with the spell you could cast some sort of anti-magic field on the door so the spell won't work at all.
    Last edited by Bobmufin52; 2008-10-24 at 09:51 AM.
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    I kinda feel like lock picking should take some time. It's the tradeoff for subtlety: you can charge the door, but if you don't break it open the first time, they know you're coming, or you can take the time to pick it and be quiet. I'd like to see the somatic component be to actually use your lock-picks to pick the lock, and a time equal to the time it takes to pick the lock. So you can do it from a distance, and avoid any traps on it, and someone watching the door won't see you, but a locked door still has meaning.

    But maybe that's just because I'm amused by the idea of someone concentrating on the lock across the road, muttering to themselves, tongue sticking out, absorbed in the task of picking thin air while passers-by on the road look at him strangely...

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    vegetalss4's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    a cuppel of things.
    first i think the casting time should be a Standard action not a stander action.
    second when you say that you can use it as a class skill does you mean that you can use it untrained? because when the skill chack is made it matters not wheter the skill is a class skill or not, only how high the modifier is.
    Third there's already the second level sorcerer/wizard spell knock that can do the same but better, more reliable and from a longer distance, so any sorcerer or wizard who takes this is stupid
    (no offense meant)

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by vegetalss4 View Post
    a cuppel of things.
    first i think the casting time should be a Standard action not a stander action.
    second when you say that you can use it as a class skill does you mean that you can use it untrained? because when the skill chack is made it matters not wheter the skill is a class skill or not, only how high the modifier is.
    Third there's already the second level sorcerer/wizard spell knock that can do the same but better, more reliable and from a longer distance, so any sorcerer or wizard who takes this is stupid
    (no offense meant)
    1) Thanks for pointing that out.

    2) What I mean is that you can use it, even if you don't have training in the skill, however since you don't have it as a class skill, you take a -4 on the check. Since you most likely don't have ranks in a cross-class skill, the check is you Dex modifier -4.

    3) I know what spell youíre talking about, it's called Knock. I have to tell the truth that I actually misread that, I though it said you couldn't use that spell to open locked doors, but it turns out you can, so you do have a very good point. However, I made this spell with the idea of a rogue using a wand of this spell to get into places quickly and quietly. Any way, I think that Knock spell is kinda stupid, I mean, once you get it what's the point of the open lock skill to begin with? At least my spell still makes use of the skill. (Sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk, I'm just saying my opinion on the subject.)
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmufin52 View Post
    3) I know what spell youíre talking about, it's called Knock. I have to tell the truth that I actually misread that, I though it said you couldn't use that spell to open locked doors, but it turns out you can, so you do have a very good point. However, I made this spell with the idea of a rogue using a wand of this spell to get into places quickly and quietly. Any way, I think that Knock spell is kinda stupid, I mean, once you get it what's the point of the open lock skill to begin with? At least my spell still makes use of the skill. (Sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk, I'm just saying my opinion on the subject.)
    It's a valid opinion, thats one of the things I like least about 3.5. Low level spells make skills completally obsolete, Knock, Silence, invisibility, disguise self, charm person, and many more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    It's a valid opinion, thats one of the things I like least about 3.5. Low level spells make skills completally obsolete, Knock, Silence, invisibility, disguise self, charm person, and many more.
    I know, but it's never been a problem with my group beause, well, idk why, the don't cast as many spells as you think they would, since the team has a necromancer, sorcerer, bard, and a druid (Thoses are just the spell casters). They like mostly hitting monsters on the head with sharp objects. They also have this wierd obsession with useing a skill every chance they get...
    Last edited by Bobmufin52; 2008-10-25 at 04:33 PM.
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Very nice dude. Would like very much to use this myself.
    <Insert witty signature here>

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmufin52 View Post
    Spell for Opening Locks
    The one (or two) problem(s) I have with this spell, is, as has already been said; That it again craps on mundane skillmonkeys, which casters pretty much can do in the first place. But, that's already been mentioned.

    The second, is that if you really want to play a Rogue/Wizard, then there's a handy dandy PrC called the Arcane Trickster that lets you do exactly what this spell describes after one level, but, also lets you DD and SoH. There might be a few other classes that can...

    And AT requires no homebrewing whatsoever, which some DMs don't like. It also has the benefits of being in Core 3.x.

    As has been said, Knock is better.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    you might not want to make it a duration of instantaneous, but 1 minute per level, and allows you to do the same thing for that time. also, add it to the beguiler list, level 1.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Kemek View Post
    you might not want to make it a duration of instantaneous, but 1 minute per level, and allows you to do the same thing for that time. also, add it to the beguiler list, level 1.
    Well, the spell isn't suppose to work like that, not the way I imagined it at least. Itís supposed to be able to unlock one object per casting. On the beguiler, I donít know what that class is, if it's in a supplement book, I wouldn't know it. All I have is the 3 core rule books and Complete Scoundrel. Could you give me the basic idea of the class?
    Last edited by Bobmufin52; 2008-10-25 at 10:40 PM.
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The one (or two) problem(s) I have with this spell, is, as has already been said; That it again craps on mundane skillmonkeys, which casters pretty much can do in the first place. But, that's already been mentioned.

    The second, is that if you really want to play a Rogue/Wizard, then there's a handy dandy PrC called the Arcane Trickster that lets you do exactly what this spell describes after one level, but, also lets you DD and SoH. There might be a few other classes that can...

    And AT requires no homebrewing whatsoever, which some DMs don't like. It also has the benefits of being in Core 3.x.

    As has been said, Knock is better.
    Yhea I know knocks better, but this spell at least makes use of the open lock skill. As for the Arcane Tricster, it can only do it at a range of 30 feet. That's not good enough for the NPC I made this spell for. (Also, he's not a Wizard/Rogue, he's most likely a plain Rouge or posibly Rogue/Assassin.) Also, this spell dosn't crap on regular lock pickers, all this spell dose is make it qicker to pick locks and gives you the ability to use it from a distance. In fact a person who uses this spell and isn't trained in the skill open lock is actualy worse than if they did it the manual way.
    Last edited by Bobmufin52; 2008-10-25 at 10:41 PM.
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: 3.5 spell; Unwelcomed Entrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmufin52 View Post
    Well, the spell isn't suppose to work like that, not the way I imagined it at least. Itís supposed to be able to unlock one object per casting. On the beguiler, I donít know what that class is, if it's in a supplement book, I wouldn't know it. All I have is the 3 core rule books and Complete Scoundrel. Could you give me the basic idea of the class?
    I found out what the beguiler is, and they would defiantly have this spell XD So I'll give it to them as a 1st level spell I guess.
    Don't make me use my moon powers on you!

    Life's not about going with or against the current, it's about tossing you arms up in the air and running in circles while screaming ~weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!~

    Spoiler
    Show
    pirate=Tetra
    Tetra=chibi Zelda
    chibi Zelda=adult Zelda
    adult Zelda=Sheik
    Sheik=ninja
    Therefore, pirate=ninja

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