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2008-10-23, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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[heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Okay, for the purposes of the setting I'm developing, I need to know how difficult this monster is to defeat under the houserules I'm using.
The houserules are:
Note that, unlike standard V/WP is reserve VP for elite encounters, such as this beast.
SpoilerThreehorned behemoth CR ?
Neutral Gargantuan Animal
Senses: Scent, Low Light Vision, Listen +22, Spot +22
Init: +0
Languages: none
AC: 16, touch 6, flat-footed 16 (-4 size, +10 natural)
Wound Points: 151 Vitality points: 504 HD: 33d8
DR: 3/-
Fort +27, Ref +18, Will +17
Speed: 40'
Melee: Gore +31 (3d8+24)
Space: 20' Reach: 15'
Base Atk: +20 Grapple: +48
Atk Options: Charge, Trample (3d12+24)
Str 42, Dex 11, Con 32, Int 1, Wis 18, Cha 9
Feats: Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Toughness (9 times)
Skills: Listen +22, spot +22
Level Adjustment: --
Possessions: none
What I'd like to know is whether it is possible to beat this, and how difficult it would be.٩๏̯͡๏)۶
New found land. It's like Untitled Document, for places - Flickerdart
Avatar by Domochevsky
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2008-10-23, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
With a touch AC of 6, a flying wizard with a wand of acid arrow could take it down. Anything that does int damage, cha damage, or dex damage would also pretty much stop it outright.
Ego whip does cha damage, and is only a second level power.
A rogue with the maiming strike feat (*might* qualify for it by level 6) can do 1 point of cha damage. With only a spot of only +22, a flying rogue can easily get the jump on it, attack, then move away, dealing cha damage.
Ray of Stupidity, a second level spell, does int damage. A single one of those would take the creature out.
A Shivering Touch spell, preferably reached, would do 3d6 dex damage. Of course, Shivering Touch pretty much kills EVERYTHING.Last edited by Cuddly; 2008-10-23 at 04:46 PM.
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2008-10-23, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
The flying wizard with acid arrow wand does indeed work (As far as I can see). Anything that requires a save will have trouble, however. As it's lowest save bonus is +17, which makes it pretty likely it'll make any save.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
New found land. It's like Untitled Document, for places - Flickerdart
Avatar by Domochevsky
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2008-10-23, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
See edit.
Also, anything that does damage without a save could slowly kill it that's based on a touch attack, such as the Orb spells, or even the lowly acid splash or ray of frost.
Using wraithstrike (second level spell) that makes all your melee attacks for a round touch attacks could do it.
With enough miss chance stuff up (mirror image, concealment effects, something that gives improved invis, like that shadowhand maneuver), a hasted rogue UMDing a wand of wraithstrike and twf could probably stabbity it to death.
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2008-10-23, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
but Ego whip is save for ½, and at lv 6 it can do 2d4 points of char dam, while shiwering touch doesnt allow a safe at all.
still those 2 are the extreme situations that proberly wont come up, and that monster does seem brutal enough to be at least around a CR 9thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2008-10-23, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
A big problem with things that require melee attacks. 15 ft reach. You'll be AoO'd for 37.5 damage. Not to mention that if you have to attack multiple rounds you're getting more of those.
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New found land. It's like Untitled Document, for places - Flickerdart
Avatar by Domochevsky
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2008-10-23, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
It has no immunities and but whoa, low AC, but sweet Saves (will make everything but on a 1).
So Save Partial and No Save are best best versus the beast.
I note that the beast is hard to sneak up on. Though, once you do, Initiative +0.
Any books allowed?
I need to make sure I understand rules-
So in E 6 you can't create anything above caster 6-8 (depending if find way to boost caster by 1 or two points like Death Knell).
So +2 weapons/armor are the highest enhancement to hit/damage allowed to be made (but can have as many special abilities as can afford still).
+2 rings/Necklace of NA are also max usually. Although, Rings can't be created due to Feats requirements I guess (caster 12).
Stat items don't have that limitation happily.
Bracers of Armor limited to +2.
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2008-10-23, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Don't forget the caster level reqs for weapon enchants. There aren't many weapon enchants of CL 6 and lower.
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New found land. It's like Untitled Document, for places - Flickerdart
Avatar by Domochevsky
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2008-10-23, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
A melee specializing in Ubercharge could level this beatie in a single charge attack, but I'm sure you knew that. Just mention it because the way e6 works (feats instead of levels), most optimal melee eventually becomes an ubercharger simply because those are the best feats to take.
It's AC is not so great, and it's touch AC stinks. If the characters have spells or abilities that work against those, great. It's a lot of hitpoints to work through, so I expect you'd want to adopt a strategy of firing from a distance. Solid Fog would also work quite well to constrain the beast for 4+ rounds.
The saves are kinda insanely high though, for e6. I wouldn't try any spells that allow saves.
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2008-10-23, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Actually, no, Caster level doesn't matter unless the weapon enchant uses a higher level spell (need the mimimun then): read the errata.
Caster levels listed are for dispelling purposes only.
Wait, you can create rings: according to this feat on the OP's link":
Wondrous Rings (General)
Prerequisites: 6th level, Craft Wondrous Item
Benefit: You treat rings as wondrous items for the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites. You must still meet caster level requirements for any ring you create.
So +2 rings exist.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2008-10-23 at 05:19 PM.
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2008-10-23, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-23, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
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2008-10-23, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
New found land. It's like Untitled Document, for places - Flickerdart
Avatar by Domochevsky
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2008-10-23, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
I assume you mean AoO, since there are plenty of AoE spells you can cast in a suprise round. More specifically you can't make an AoO while flat-footed unless you have something like Combat Reflexes which this critter doesn't have.
I'm curious.. what makes you say that?
It's probably a Whisper gnome or a rogue using an invisibility spell.Last edited by Tokiko Mima; 2008-10-23 at 06:07 PM.
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2008-10-23, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
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2008-10-23, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
+7 from items (MW tool, +5 cloak), +12 for being a Reduced kobold (+4 small, +4 slight build [counts as one size category smaller], +4 from shrinking one more step).
So that's +40.
Yeah, right, that's what I meant
I'm curious.. what makes you say that?Last edited by Cuddly; 2008-10-23 at 06:12 PM.
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2008-10-23, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Well if you're not really trying for a super-hide it would be difficult. But really, hide is one of the easiest skills to boost into ludicrous levels. Just take any small creature and give him a cloak of elvenkind and add that to your build and you've got a +30, make him a whisper gnome for +34, or a dark whisper gnome for +40.
Wait, I just remembered not everyone munchkins their hide like I do.
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2008-10-23, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
It's not that hard to get high hide checks by using a small creature with a potion of Reduce Person.
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2008-10-23, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Core Kobolds don't have slight build.
More specifically Solid fog breaks line of sight making the creature impossible to hit with targeted spells, only area of effect spells will work within the fog. Granted the creature can only move 10ft per round in exchange.
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2008-10-23, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-23, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Except that it's 4 rounds to direct AoE and targetted spells and position your melee and ranged attackers. It keeps the critters 15' reach from mattering much if your melees are sitting at the edges of the fog, ready to AoO the monster as it moves through their threatened areas trying to get out of the cloud. It also negates it's ability to charge and/or retreat, too.
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2008-10-23, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-23, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
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2008-10-23, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
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2008-10-23, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-23, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
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2008-10-23, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-23, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Almost impossible, without resorting to a lot of magic or ability damage.
First off, it's got over 600 hp, counting both Wound Points and Vitality Points. That's a TON for a level 6 character to take on. It's attack bonus ensures a hit, and most characters will die in a single blow (possibly two attacks). It will also never fail a save except on a natural one, as save DCs don't go that high in E6.
Basically, this monster will waste a melee or damage set group of characters. Mages will stand a better chance, but I'd say that a TPK is likely, if not a surety (barring the methods already stated, which largely depend on knowing the creature's stats in advance, which I'm assuming your player's won't).
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2008-10-23, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
If ego whip, ray of stupidity, or shivering touch are allowed (I would fully understand their ban), then there is no reason not to have them as spells known, or as a scroll or something. A ray of stupidity or two, from a scroll, is guaranteed to bring down just about anything with an int of 5 or so.
A ranger or druid using wild empathy could potentially calm it. Hide from Animals means the whole party can walk around it, or position themselves to hit it very hard.
I'm assuming this would be some sort of boss monster, not just a random encounter, which means the players would have some time to research it
(It's of the animal type, very strong, not too bright, lots of HP, easy target for touch attacks, that sort of thing), and then could come back with the right tools.
If they just stumbled upon it and thought "Hey, cool, a gargantuan creature, let's attack!" then they would definitely get ripped. If it attacked them, and they had some contingency abilities (flight, invis) they could escape easily.
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2008-10-23, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [heavily modified 3.5] Beat this monster
Warlock 6, Fell Flight, spam Eldritch Blast.
A Half-Dragon with the feat Dragon Breath (RotD) and a line-shaped breath weapon and the ability to fly (large, spell) would be able to fly out of its reach and breathe every 1d4 rounds, one less with Recover Breath (DCN), until it dies. Maybe get Entangling Exhalation (RotD) if it could run away faster than you can fly, and also get Improved Flight (RotW) if maneuverability would be an issue.
In that system, any spontaneous spellcaster with Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) can take the feat Expanded Casting from the E6 link to gain a 4th level spell slot, and Expanded Knowledge to gain a 4th level spell known. After taking Expanded Casting twice you can now cast 5th level spells, so the next Expanded Casting grants a 5th level spell slot. Two feats later and you've got a 6th level spell slot, and so forth. A class that knows every spell on its spell list of a level it can cast, such as Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage, would be able to eventually access 9th level spells. Your caster level would still be a bit low, but you'd be able to cast those spells regardless. Get Heighten Spell with Earth Spell (RoS) and you'll be able to get a decent caster level on some of your lower level spells, while improving the DCs. A Sorcerer 6 with Versatile Spellcaster and Expanded Knowledge for Lesser Globe of Invulnerability would win against another spellcaster.