Debuffer Options

[Fax Celestis]

I'm thinking about making a character centered on debuffing opponents, but I'm torn between bard, spellthief, warlock, and sorceror. What're peoples thoughts?

[Siegel]

Spellthiefs rock the house. Combine with Lurk if you want

[Keld Denar]

Depends on what you want to debuff? Status? Ability scores? AB/Saves? Status debuffs primarily come from wizard casting. Things like Blindness, Fatigue, Entangled, Slowed, etc.

Ability scores, there are several ways to do it. Rogue with Maiming Strike hits Cha pretty hard, and can get str too with Crippling Strike. There are a couple other variants that do other damage. Could be lumped in with Spell Thief, although you are already sacrificing SA dice to gain ST abilities, so you don't have a whole lot of dice left to sac to gain Maiming Strike or whatnot.

Attack and Save bonuses, you probably need to multiclass to get. Hexblade debuffs pretty well, especially with the Dark Companion (PHBII) ACF and a couple of the alternate hexes. Tack on Blackguard for Aura of Dispair and Binder to get Focloure (sp?)'s aura as well. Its debateable whether or not the evil paladin Aura of Dispair stacks with Blackguard, since they are the same name. On top of all that, you can stack fear (Frightening Presence or Dreadful Wrath) or something like Bardic Doomspeak (Champions of Ruin?), you can get some pretty impressive negative numbers as far as saves and AB goes. Your foes will have a hard time hitting you, and resisting your allies spells.

I always wanted to try out a Gravetouched Ghoul Hex4/Marshal1/Barb1/Binder2/Blackguard10 to see how high I could get my effective DC on my Paralyzing Touch, but haven't gotten to try it out yet. Cha synergy 4tw!

EDIT:

Spellthiefs rock the house. Combine with Lurk if you want

You don't have to Fax that Spell Thieves rock the house...He wrote the guide! I'd have linked it, but for some reason, its not coming up on the GitP search....doh.

[Kurald Galain]

You can do both, er, well, two of them: either spellthief/sorcerer/arcane trickster, or warlock/sorcerer/eldritch theurge. I don't think bard is all that great for debuffing, unless there's feats or alternate powers that I'm unaware of.

[Fax Celestis]

You can do both, er, well, two of them: either spellthief/sorcerer/arcane trickster, or warlock/sorcerer/eldritch theurge. I don't think bard is all that great for debuffing, unless there's feats or alternate powers that I'm unaware of.

The only reason the bard is even on this list is because of a bunch of spells in the Spell Compendium centered around debuffing that I liked.

[Starbuck_II]

The only reason the bard is even on this list is because of a bunch of spells in the Spell Compendium centered around debuffing that I liked.

Shouldn't Erudite be on there than?
He can convert any spell to a power (spell to power variant on WotC website).
He gets Bard, Wu Jen, Wiz, etc as options.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm thinking about making a character centered on debuffing opponents, but I'm torn between bard, spellthief, warlock, and sorceror. What're peoples thoughts?

Chameleon (At or after class level 6, character level 11), as the Chameleon gets a caster level that progresses twice as fast as character level. At class level 6 (character level 11 with earliest entry), the Chameleon has a caster level of 12 - which is great for Dispelling.

[Fax Celestis]

Chameleon (At or after class level 6, character level 11), as the Chameleon gets a caster level that progresses twice as fast as character level. At class level 6 (character level 11 with earliest entry), the Chameleon has a caster level of 12 - which is great for Dispelling.

Not so much "debuffing" idea as "dispelling"; more "debuffing" as "your X now sucks, enjoy." I mean, don't get me wrong, dispelling is rox, but I'm more thinking towards a blighter/hexer sort of thing.

[Jack_Simth]

Not so much "debuffing" idea as "dispelling"; more "debuffing" as "your X now sucks, enjoy." I mean, don't get me wrong, dispelling is rox, but I'm more thinking towards a blighter/hexer sort of thing.

Ah. Well, they can also get spells from any Divine or Arcane spell list, with a little work.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd personally prefer at-will effects that hit multiple targets for debuffs. A Warlock who spams an Eldritch Chain Blinding Blast every round is good. A Dread Necromancer with Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), Frightful Presence (DCN), and a Ghostly Visage familiar constantly using its gaze attack is just amazing. A Dragon Shaman with Entangling Exhalation, Recover Breath, Dreadful Wrath, and Frightful Presence is great, especially with Combat Reflexes and a long reach. Even a Dragon Totem Barbarian with Dreadful Wrath, Frightful Presence, and Intimidating Rage can completely disrupt an entire encounter. Whatever you pick, tack on as many passive fear effects as you can, because despite the large volume of creatures immune, there are enough that aren't that it will be worth it.

[Glyphic]

Troglodyte (stench) Hex-blade X, Paladin of tyranny 3, Binder (the one with the saddness aura- can use feats or class levels to get it!), dark companion.

Throw around -2's like no-bodies business.

[Fax Celestis]

Related note: anyone know if the Curse Song feat available to bards in NWN has a book version?

[Eldariel]

Not precisely in 3.5 version (although homebrew...the stats for the feat are easily available here anyways), but there's the wonderful Haunting Melody in Eberron Campaign Settings. Note that it can trigger whenever you play anything, so it can be used simultaneously with any other songs. Handy debuff.

[MeklorIlavator]

Warlock could possibly do all right. Here's some Invocations to use:

Spoiler

Show

Least:
Baleful Utterance(Complete Arcane 132)
Frightful Blast(Complete Arcane 134)
Miasmic Cloud(Complete Arcane 134)
Sickening Blast(Complete Arcane 135)
Lesser:
Beshadowed blast(Complete Arcane 132)
Curse of Despair(Complete Arcane 132)
Hellrime Blast(Complete Arcane 134)
Wall of Gloom(Complete Arcane 136)
Eldritch Chain(Complete Arcane 133)
Greater:
Bewitching blast(Complete Arcane 132)
Eldritch Cone(Complete Arcane 133)
Enervating Shadow(Complete Arcane 133)
Noxious Blast(Complete Arcane 135)
Repelling Blast(Complete Arcane 135)
Hindering Blast(Complete Mage 124)
Painful Slumber of the Ages(Complete Mage 124)
Dark:
Eldritch Doom(Complete Arcane 133)
Utterdark Blast(Complete Arcane 135)
Word of Changing(Complete Arcane 136)
Binding Blast(Complete Mage 123)

This list contains pretty much all of the debuffing invocations, plus some useful shapes as well.

[Ponce]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1066905

I posted this a while ago and it got a bunch of nice options. It deals seriously penalty to enemy saves, skills, and attacks while at the same time keeping a solid lockdown build. If you want you could drop the lockdown aspect and take more levels of bard for further debuffing.

[ocato]

I would definitely consider a Dirgesinger Bard. Bard spells work nicely with the debuff/save or suck style you seem to want (and dispel and some others are still options for additional "eff you"s). Most DMs I know will allow you to use effects that buff Inspire Courage (song of the heart, Inspirational Boost, Badge of jank, vest of whatsamajigger, et al) to affect Song of Sorrow. I highly suggest trying that because a debuffing bard is neat, but you really get cooking when you're singing a song that gives all enemies -6 to attacks/damage and your allies all have +6.

Of course Haunting Melody, Doom Speak, and Captivating Melody will all have their place in the build as well. Use your UMD to its maximum potential with rays of enfeeblement and exhaustion, feeblemind, enervate, and any other debuff that you want to add to your abilities. What it boils down to is that there are things a bard can do that a nonbard cannot do (songs) but not a lot of things nonbards can do that bards can't (UMD to replicate spells).

I'd put spellthief as a second choice because stealing spells is pretty useful (and something bards can't do), but that and a cup of tea will get you to China when you fight something that doesn't have any spells. At least as far as being a debuffer goes.

[Fax Celestis]

I'd put spellthief as a second choice because stealing spells is pretty useful (and something bards can't do), but that and a cup of tea will get you to China when you fight something that doesn't have any spells. At least as far as being a debuffer goes.

Sounds like Spellthief 1/Bard X + Master Spellthief may be the way to go.

[ocato]

Sounds like Spellthief 1/Bard X + Master Spellthief may be the way to go.

A quick glance on how spellthieves work (I had an idea but I'm not really a connoisseur like fax is) suggests that this is a very good idea.

[Curmudgeon]

The bulk of your debuffing can be accomplished with dispels and spells that cause ability damage and penalties, and Clerics get quite a lot of those spells. The key to getting your debuffs to work is higher dispel checks, and the Inquisition domain grants +4 to all dispel checks (after the caster level part of the formula). I suggest Cloistered Cleric and the Purification domain for +1 caster level on all Abjuration spells (dispels included). You'll want to maintain full spellcasting progression when you add prestige class features -- though you can lag up to 4 caster levels behind and still do well with the Practiced Spellcaster feat. I like the Church Inquisitor PrC for three reasons:

• full spellcasting advance
• it grants the Inquisition domain, allowing freedom to choose your fourth CC domain
• Force Shapechange feature lets you undo all shapechange effects at 6th level, including alter self, polymorph, and alternate form abilities like wild shape -- one of the best debuffs available.

You could choose Magic as your fourth domain and use any arcane wands or staves, and also pick up Mordenkainen's Disjunction as an ultimate debuff. Now add in lots of goodness like Bestow Curse and you're quite the debuffing machine!

[Adumbration]

I think the fixed hexblade would be appropriate here, but I've lost the link.