Full caster in platemail?

[Monstrodoom]

For a FR game a friend of mine is running, I'm putting together a Red Wizard specialized in necromancy. I've read TLN's guide, and hand-picked Enchantment and Evocation as my two barred schools from wizard.

We're starting at 5 so I've got some time before I figure out what my third barred school is from levelling in Red Wiz. So, basically I'm looking for suggestions? I'm considering div instead, barring ench/evoc and leaning towards preparing a bunch of necro spells anyway since the red wizard spellpower applies to all schools (yay!). I'm starting to think that's the better option - and I'll just "be" a red wizard of necromancy, despite my specialty.

Also, I have this mad scheme - to be a full caster wizard wearing fullplate with no spell failure. So far the best I've gotten is 5% from mithril twilight fullplate, +whatever, with a one-level dip in spellsword - but I'd have to lose a caster level for that since spellsword requires martial/heavy armor proficiency. Was going to blow my human feat on light armor proficiency and stick to that but I'm concerned making my plate as light as possible becomes unreasonably expensive. Without the spellsword dip, I get to 15% spell fail via mithril twilight halfweight fullplate, +whatever, just with light armor proficiency.. and that just isn't low enough.

I'm stuck! I'm positive it can work, but I'm not sure how.

[The Rose Dragon]

I don't know much about it, but I seem to recall feycraft reducing ASF chances. It's in DMG II.

[Krrth]

For a FR game a friend of mine is running, I'm putting together a Red Wizard specialized in necromancy. I've read TLN's guide, and hand-picked Enchantment and Evocation as my two barred schools from wizard.

We're starting at 5 so I've got some time before I figure out what my third barred school is from levelling in Red Wiz. So, basically I'm looking for suggestions? I'm considering div instead, barring ench/evoc and leaning towards preparing a bunch of necro spells anyway since the red wizard spellpower applies to all schools (yay!). I'm starting to think that's the better option - and I'll just "be" a red wizard of necromancy, despite my specialty.

Also, I have this mad scheme - to be a full caster wizard wearing fullplate with no spell failure. So far the best I've gotten is 5% from mithril twilight fullplate, +whatever, with a one-level dip in spellsword - but I'd have to lose a caster level for that since spellsword requires martial/heavy armor proficiency. Was going to blow my human feat on light armor proficiency and stick to that but I'm concerned making my plate as light as possible becomes unreasonably expensive. Without the spellsword dip, I get to 15% spell fail via mithril twilight halfweight fullplate, +whatever, just with light armor proficiency.. and that just isn't low enough.

I'm stuck! I'm positive it can work, but I'm not sure how.

I know warmages can ignore the penalty with loght armor,and can increase the category with feats. Unfortunatly, you have to have the ability to ignore the penalty to take the feat.

[Talic]

Go dwarf. There's a rune master PrC that allows you to use runes to apply still spell to all your spells. It completely bypasses Arcane Spell Failure. Full Metal Caster. That's the easy way.

Also, you can choose a class that gets casting with light armor, and take Armored Caster to get to medium. Then use mithral full plate, and Bam, you're good.

[UglyPanda]

Githcraft/Feycraft, you can only have one, gives another -5%.
Thistledown Padding (RoTW), increases armor check penalty in exchange for another -5%.
With spellsword, mithral, and twilight, you're good.

[mangosta71]

Or you could go psion, as psionics aren't affected by spell failure from armor. One level dip into psychic warrior for armor proficiency, and you're set.

[Keld Denar]

How you getting into Spellsword without a dip in a martial class? Just curious, because this requires some SERIOUS feat expenditure for armor proficiency and being an outsider(native), or something that I've never heard of, which would intrigue me greatly.

[only1doug]

How you getting into Spellsword without a dip in a martial class? Just curious, because this requires some SERIOUS feat expenditure for armor proficiency and being an outsider(native), or something that I've never heard of, which would intrigue me greatly.

He Isn't, thats why he said he doesn't want to dip into spellsword

Edit: ahh, my mistake, you were answering UglyPanda

So far the best I've gotten is 5% from mithril twilight fullplate, +whatever, with a one-level dip in spellsword - but I'd have to lose a caster level for that since spellsword requires martial/heavy armor proficiency.

My Emphasis

[Heliomance]

I know the Wizards optimisation forums managed to get a suit of fullplate with 0 ASF and 0 ACP. It was probably quite expensive though.

[UglyPanda]

Must've missed that part. In that case, I could only get down to -5%.

0% ACF, but requires access to Dragon Magazine.

[Kurald Galain]

I know warmages can ignore the penalty with loght armor,and can increase the category with feats. Unfortunatly, you have to have the ability to ignore the penalty to take the feat.

Take one level in Spellthief, and the Master Spellthief feat. Now you can cast in light armor with no penalty, and you get added skill bonuses and 1d6 sneak attack to boot. That's not necessarily worth the loss of a caster level, though; it depends on how optimized the party is.

[valadil]

If you're not set on wizard there's always Battle Sorcerer!

(It's far from optimal, but Battle Sorc, with a feat and mithral armor is a straightforward way to get a full caster (albeit with fewer spells known) into fullplate.)

[ShaggyMarco]

You could also only cast spells with no somatic component, and then still-spell the truly vital spells at higher levels.

[Waspinator]

One character idea I've had for awhile is a Psion who runs around in plate armor muttering a bunch of gibberish while using his powers and carrying a book full of doodles and scribbles. The idea would be to basically just mess with everyone and make it so that if I ever get captured, the standard "just take his book away and that wizard is harmless" tactic falls flat on its face.

[mabriss lethe]

Maybe go Dread Necromancer instead? also benefits from light armor casting with no ASF so with a single feat and mithril, you're set and still hellbent on raising a zombie horde.

[Starbuck_II]

One character idea I've had for awhile is a Psion who runs around in plate armor muttering a bunch of gibberish while using his powers and carrying a book full of doodles and scribbles. The idea would be to basically just mess with everyone and make it so that if I ever get captured, the standard "just take his book away and that wizard is harmless" tactic falls flat on its face.

I love the idea. Though, my DM would make me tell him and I think he might let slip what I was.

[Krrth]

Take one level in Spellthief, and the Master Spellthief feat. Now you can cast in light armor with no penalty, and you get added skill bonuses and 1d6 sneak attack to boot. That's not necessarily worth the loss of a caster level, though; it depends on how optimized the party is.

I thought the ability specified that it only worked for spells from the class that granted the ability. I could be wrong, however.

[sonofzeal]

I've played two casters like this. One was a Psion who didn't mind the nonproficiency penalty since she doesn't use anything with attack rolls, and the other was a Goblin Diviner/Loremaster who used Still for a few important ones, relied on wands for his bread and butter, but saved most of his casting for out-of-combat utility where he could remove his armor and perform the ritual.

[Fax Celestis]

Take one level in Spellthief, and the Master Spellthief feat. Now you can cast in light armor with no penalty, and you get added skill bonuses and 1d6 sneak attack to boot. That's not necessarily worth the loss of a caster level, though; it depends on how optimized the party is.

Master Spellthief makes it so you don't lose CL, either. Your Spellthief level stack with any arcane caster class for determining CL. The only thing you'll lose out on with this method is one level of spells-per-day. It will, however, let you buy those feats that give you improved Armored Mage qualities.

[Monstrodoom]

I thought the ability specified that it only worked for spells from the class that granted the ability. I could be wrong, however.

I thought that was the case, too. I'll double-check, and if it doesn't have that restriction I'll do the spellthief dip; UMD would make wand/scroll access a lot broader, too, so there's also that.

Otherwise once I get the 16k gp I'll probably do the incredible edible platemail from hell, since I can get access to D358. I'll miss out on UMD and spellthief's L1 skills and abilities (steal spell as a red wizard? meaning... steal spell in circle magic? the possibilities!) but get higher-level spells that eensy bit faster.

Regarding the other class suggestions, they're all gravy but I'm going red wiz for the RP (and spell power and circle magic) which also bottlenecks me into human (and maybe templates). This'll be the first human I've played in, um... four years? So that's kind of exciting, actually. Also, bald.

[Blackfang108]

Darkleaf(is that the one?) instead of mithril.

Drops the Classification to Medium.

Do what you must to get casting in Medium armor.

[Reinboom]

Depending on how long you have:
If you have a way to ramp up your BAB, then look at the dragonslayer in draconomicon. Requires +5 BAB, 2 ranks of tumble, dodge, and iron will. Gives you all armor proficiencies and martial profs, another BAB, a caster level, immunity to fear, two good saves...

Next possibility:
Blended Quartz from page 18 of the Arms and Equipment Guide. -20% ASF, but makes the full plate cost 10,000 more. Githcraft, -5% for 600 gp more.
Then Twilight. Which, should get rid of all ASF.
The suit of armor, however, weighs 100 lbs, and is terribly expensive. Which would also mean you would need, most likely, a strength enhancement item in order to properly wear it.

Darkleaf(is that the one?) instead of mithril.

Drops the Classification to Medium.

Do what you must to get casting in Medium armor.

Mithral also has that bonus.

[Fax Celestis]

I thought that was the case, too. I'll double-check, and if it doesn't have that restriction I'll do the spellthief dip; UMD would make wand/scroll access a lot broader, too, so there's also that.

Master Spellthief makes the Spellthief's Armored Mage (Light) ability apply to all your arcane casting classes.

[Monstrodoom]

Okay, good stuff. So at this point I'm basically looking at either spellthief dip + master spellthief, or dragonslayer 1 + spellsword 1.

I'm liking both routes honestly; we start at 5, and my level 6 is going to be in Red Wizard, but from there the road is pretty open. I guess I just have to sort out whether ridiculous UMD cheese is more valuable to me than slayer immunities and better BAB.

Oh, um.. anyone know if the additional school you have to drop for Red Wizard gives you another spell per level from your specialty school? I'm thinking absolutely not but the wording on the advanced specialization class feature is kind of vague (basically just says, "abandon another school as per the rules in the Player's Handbook," which tells me, probably, suffer all additional restrictions of suddenly losing a spell school for the bitchin' circle magic you'll get [eventually])

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, um.. anyone know if the additional school you have to drop for Red Wizard gives you another spell per level from your specialty school? I'm thinking absolutely not but the wording on the advanced specialization class feature is kind of vague (basically just says, "abandon another school as per the rules in the Player's Handbook," which tells me, probably, suffer all additional restrictions of suddenly losing a spell school for the bitchin' circle magic you'll get [eventually])

It does not, unfortunately.

[Monstrodoom]

That's about what I expected. Definitely going divination and banning evocation and enchantment... which is starting to make the spellthief package really quite attractive.

[Irreverent Fool]

Losing one level of spell progression as a wizard will have you gaining access to new spell levels at the same rate as a sorcerer. The simplest method would be to take one level of any class that grants the ability to ignore arcane spell failure for light armor and take the armored mage feat, and medium proficiency, allowing you to ignore arcane spell failure from medium armor (your method seems to do this fine). A suit of mithral full plate will then satisfy your requisite. You will be lagging behind one caster level, and be missing two feats but if you're batman it really doesn't matter. Pick up an orange ioun stone down the line.

Edit: Yeah, I need to read more closely. I'd be wary about investing heavily in your armor unless your DM is one of the nice ones that never uses slimes, rust monsters, Belbiliths, or other things that destroy armor... though I suppose mithral alone is going to bump full plate up to 10,500 anyway. The other problem I see with the full plate in the link given earlier is that such an item would be pretty rare and very sought after... of course that's plenty of adventure hooks right there.

I actually burned the feats to accomplish the mithral full plate with no ASF on a beguiler I played awhile back. It was pretty fun since the rest of our party consisted of a warblade, a paladin, and a fighter(not straight fighter, but to us he was just "the fighter"). A whole party in full plate. Fun times. Good luck and remember: Expeditious Retreat is your friend!

Edit: Have you considered Hexblade? You gain the armored mage: light feature, hexblade's curse 1/day and martial weapon proficiency.

[Blackfang108]

Edit: Have you considered Hexblade? You gain the armored mage: light feature, hexblade's curse 1/day and martial weapon proficiency.

I'd recommend Duskblade before Hexblade, if only for the additional spells per day, and the Arcane attunement (3+int mod per day for Detect magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound, Dancing Lights, and Flare, DM and RM being the obvious pulls here. Why waste a spell slot?).

You still gain the Proficencies AND shield Proficency(sp), there is no Alignment Restriction(Hex must be nongood), and a 2 level dip gets you Combat Casting for free.

Unless the restrictions on the Duskblade's Armored Mage forbids this.

I know Beguiler and Duskblade only ignore ASF for that class. Haven't read up on Hexblade as much.

[Monstrodoom]

I'd go duskblade in a heartbeat if there was a feat similar to master spellthief to allow me to apply dusk's armored mage to wiz.

As it stands, I'm starting out wiz4/sthf1 with tattoo focus, master spellthief, battlecaster, and probably craft wondrous or scribe magical tattoo. I may have +1 darkleaf platemail out of the box, since it's cheaper than mithril and my dex isn't great (14 - so darkleaf is about as nice as I need to get, and I'd have rust immunity too!)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'd go duskblade in a heartbeat if there was a feat similar to master spellthief to allow me to apply dusk's armored mage to wiz.

As it stands, I'm starting out wiz4/sthf1 with tattoo focus, master spellthief, battlecaster, and probably craft wondrous or scribe magical tattoo. I may have +1 darkleaf platemail out of the box, since it's cheaper than mithril and my dex isn't great (14 - so darkleaf is about as nice as I need to get, and I'd have rust immunity too!)

Why not Dread Necromancer? Gets you casting in Light Armor, toss in 2 feats for Medium Proficiency and casting, then wear Mithral Full Plate.