Bad bad bad bad things and players that make you wanna injure furniture

[Xero Kunai]

Just thought I'd start something and vent about the things that piss me off, dunno if something like this was already made.

(Lol, of course with all of you here there has to be like 400, am I right?)

Like recently, I was running a 3.5 campaign, and one of the players decided he didn't like one of my NPCs, decided not to take on the quest with the rest of the group. I told him he's missing out on the fun and he then accused me of railroading the campaign because I wasn't going to side DM his adventures.. : / He said it was all my fault, criticized my DMing, and left.

And now, trying to get a secondary campaign going, while the other players are gone, and I specifically said I'd prefer just to use the Player's Handbook and such for making a character. it's set in FR..

He wants to start using Warforged characters and other types with classes from books I don't have, in settings that aren't FR, and just general pissing me offness. Though I wasn't the DM, it was still a general consensus that books nobody has, and classes that are not appropriate really shouldn't be used..
Refused the core classes, saying they were too simple for him. Said he refused druid cause the spell lists are too long. Wanted to be clerics of gods that didn't exist in FR. Then accused the classes of being Broken. And left..

This is just pissing me off, I'd prefer to find players.. and generally I could just punt a baby to Stockholm right now.

Any like stories or advice you can give?

[golentan]

"If it's not in keeping with the desires of the DM and the mood of the other players, you're doing it wrong." He sounds like he wouldn't be out of place in my group (we tend to break at least one thing/PC, just in case, and then whoever's dm that time throws challenges that escalate until you reach TPK), but in your group he's being obnoxious. If he won't quit it long enough to play nice and make a character in line with your campaign, give him Der Boot! Otherwise, you won't be happy, he won't be happy, and the other players sure as heck won't be happy.

My two cents, though with the rate of exchange I'd bet it's only worth a quarter penny.

[UserClone]

I understand your frustration, but I am kind of personally offended that you use the metaphor of hurting a small child in the title of your post. I have had a thread locked for less. Just saying be careful how you say things here.

[Pie Guy]

Once a person I was playing with decided that the fastest course of action to a point was just to randomly trip an npc that I JUST CHARMED! He reasoned that he didn't hear. He was sitting closer to the DM than I was.
just... just...

Spoiler

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[snoopy13a]

Like recently, I was running a 3.5 campaign, and one of the players decided he didn't like one of my NPCs, decided not to take on the quest with the rest of the group. I told him he's missing out on the fun and he then accused me of railroading the campaign because I wasn't going to side DM his adventures.. : / He said it was all my fault, criticized my DMing, and left.

And now, trying to get a secondary campaign going, while the other players are gone, and I specifically said I'd prefer just to use the Player's Handbook and such for making a character. it's set in FR..

He wants to start using Warforged characters and other types with classes from books I don't have, in settings that aren't FR, and just general pissing me offness. Though I wasn't the DM, it was still a general consensus that books nobody has, and classes that are not appropriate really shouldn't be used..
Refused the core classes, saying they were too simple for him. Said he refused druid cause the spell lists are too long. Wanted to be clerics of gods that didn't exist in FR. Then accused the classes of being Broken. And left..

Why did you let him back for a secondary campaign? Once he left the first time, you should have written him off for good.

[littlechicory]

And now, trying to get a secondary campaign going, while the other players are gone, and I specifically said I'd prefer just to use the Player's Handbook and such for making a character. it's set in FR..

He wants to start using Warforged characters and other types with classes from books I don't have, in settings that aren't FR, and just general pissing me offness. Though I wasn't the DM, it was still a general consensus that books nobody has, and classes that are not appropriate really shouldn't be used..
Refused the core classes, saying they were too simple for him. Said he refused druid cause the spell lists are too long. Wanted to be clerics of gods that didn't exist in FR. Then accused the classes of being Broken. And left..

This is just pissing me off, I'd prefer to find players.. and generally I could just punt a baby to Stockholm right now.

Any like stories or advice you can give?

Advice: My friends have found a few of the following lines helpful when dealing with players who want to use alternate sourcebooks, retcon their characters' deaths, etc.

"Well, either you play by the rules or you don't play at all, and if you're not playing, then you can go home early."

"Nobody else seems to have a problem with it."

"Fine, your character wakes up on the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance..."

"What part of 'player's handbook races and classes only' didn't you hear? I thought I'd made that part clear enough to everybody. Did anyone else not hear me when I said 'player's handbook and classes only'?"

"Okay, but from now on your old character is an NPC. Roll a new one."

More often, though, idiot players are punished in-character by their fellows, using logical consequences. A warforged in the wrong setting gets attacked by a rust monster the moment he/it goes off on his/its own. A cleric who worships the wrong gods gets denounced as a demon and killed by the servants of an in-setting deity. A melee fighter who insists on not wearing armor gets eaten by a chimera.

[Dogmantra]

If you ban X (X being a race, class, splatbook, whatever) and a player writes X somewhere on their sheet, just say "Oh, looks like you forgot to put a race/class/whatever down" or in the case of multiclassing to X, just tell them that they're missing a few levels. If they still don't concede, just ignore it.

EDIT: "It" being the thing you banned, don't give them any of the advantages/disadvantages, don't even acknowledge the fact that they have the banned thing.

[Tengu_temp]

I understand your frustration, but I am kind of personally offended that you use the metaphor of hurting a small child in the title of your post. I have had a thread locked for less. Just saying be careful how you say things here.

Go go Kiddyglove Rangers!

The gloves are made from real kids, by the way.

[UserClone]

I got a thread locked because it said that bards were gay. As in merry. As a former abused child, I take offense to the concept of hurting children just because you are annoyed. Just saying...

To keep it on topic, it bugs me when a DM will ONLY allow WoTC sourcebooks for PCs, but then runs a module written by Mongoose (of all companies) and then slaughters your character with a claw-claw-bite full attack from a zombie brown bear. A ZOMBIE brown bear. "Hey, that's the way the statblock is written in the module."
BUH?!

[Hal]

I think it's okay to ask your DM if he'll allow class/feat/sourcebook X, but don't be a jerk about it. I've had my share of books burn a hole on my book shelf.

[Waspinator]

In situations like this, here's a deal I like: you want to use X from book Y? Well, I don't have Y. How about you loan it to me, let me read up on the relevant parts, and next session I'll give you the decision?


About Warforged specifically, now that's just stupid though. Warforged are fairly specific to the Eberron setting and it would require a fairly creative backstory to explain one. Also, one thing that I believe is entirely within the jurisdiction of the DM when it comes to character backstories and traits is race. Simply put, while it's not too hard to come up with explanations of being a self-taught innovator or whatever to explain some new class or feat, it's much harder to insert an entirely new species into a setting without someone wondering why they were never mentioned before.

[valadil]

I'm okay with players arguing over rules. I really am. But the setting is up to the GM. If they don't want something to exist in their world, it doesn't exist. Putting that thing on your character sheet anyway is just dumb.

My current aggravation is players not putting any effort into the game. I'm trying to do a big political game with courtly intrigue and all that. I expect backstory, but I also expect to be disappointed. One of the players won't even tell me what he's interested in playing. He just keeps ignoring my emails and I'm not sure what to do about it.

[The Glyphstone]

In situations like this, here's a deal I like: you want to use X from book Y? Well, I don't have Y. How about you loan it to me, let me read up on the relevant parts, and next session I'll give you the decision?


About Warforged specifically, now that's just stupid though. Warforged are fairly specific to the Eberron setting and it would require a fairly creative backstory to explain one. Also, one thing that I believe is entirely within the jurisdiction of the DM when it comes to character backstories and traits is race. Simply put, while it's not too hard to come up with explanations of being a self-taught innovator or whatever to explain some new class or feat, it's much harder to insert an entirely new species into a setting without someone wondering why they were never mentioned before.

Aren't they presented as generic monsters/character race in....MMIII, is it?

[FMArthur]

I've allowed Warforged in campaigns with no specific setting (which has been always), but if it were actually in a predefined world that quite clearly does not have certain races/classes/feats/etc, then they don't exist and that includes players. My, what a controlling DM I must be, to think of excluding like 10 options out of hundreds.

[theMycon]

I'd suggest editing the title to remove the R-word and the mention of violence before a mod sees this. I'm chiming in on the "had a thread closed for less" train.


Also...
So we have a DMPC who we're told, flat out, "it'd be a pretty even fight between your whole party and him." While the DM, being none-too-bright and incapable of making a character with a steady personality, we're getting vibes that he's far more evil than what we're fighting and only on our side because it makes the plot work.

The party cleric gets a macguffin-of-unimaginable power to "hold on to" for a while. Despite trying everything, while rolling unimaginably lucky, and pouring about a half-dozen "RAW should have worked no questions asked" resources into it, all he got was "it's important", "it's powerful", and "Why, yes, every single named NPC does know exactly what it is and does, and no, no-one's going to tell you."

So... He (the player) makes an angry face, holds for a second, sighs, and smiles. Then, he (the character) takes the DMPC aside, hands him the mysterious artifact, and says "you're stronger, you can take care of this better." Then walks away, back to the party, leaving the (implied) big evil of the game, with the artifact MacGuffin, alone, free of charge. Player says he's "just happy to be gone with it."

[Starsinger]

I got a thread locked because it said that bards were gay. As in merry. !

If it helps my first D&D character ever was a bard that was gay. As in he kissed other boys.

[JeminiZero]

About Warforged specifically, now that's just stupid though. Warforged are fairly specific to the Eberron setting and it would require a fairly creative backstory to explain one.

it's much harder to insert an entirely new species into a setting without someone wondering why they were never mentioned before.

I would disagree. The question of an entirely new Species only arises in situations where reproduction is necessary to explain origin. Warforged are different in that they are always 'made' rather than 'born'. Which means in settings where Warforged are not a recognized species, a PC warforged was simply made by a wizard. (Indeed, that is also an acceptable explanation even in settings where warforged are prevalent anyway).

After all, wizards already bind undead, elementals, golems and eventually solars to their will. Its not too much of a stretch to imagine a rather innovative Wizard creating an awakened semi-living golem as an experimental servant (and then dying in a convenient explosion thereafter).

[Randel]

Player: If its okay with you, I would like to play as a warforged. His backstory is that he was created by a kindly old carpenter who built him to be a life-sized articulated wooden soldier meant to display the armor in a blacksmiths shop. After laboring over the designs and carving him to look like a great warrior, the old carpenter begins to regret that he has no children. After finishing his work, the old man sees a shooting star in the sky and wishes that he had a son as good as the wooden soldier he had carved.

DM: Okay, we are playing Forgotten Realms in case you didn't hear me. So if you're going to say that a blue fairy came and...

Player: That night Elminster visited the old mans house and brought the wooden soldier to life... because he thought it would be funny.

DM: ...

Player: And if its okay with you may I can take a flaw? If he ever lies then his nose grows really long.

[Kizara]

Player: If its okay with you, I would like to play as a warforged. His backstory is that he was created by a kindly old carpenter who built him to be a life-sized articulated wooden soldier meant to display the armor in a blacksmiths shop. After laboring over the designs and carving him to look like a great warrior, the old carpenter begins to regret that he has no children. After finishing his work, the old man sees a shooting star in the sky and wishes that he had a son as good as the wooden soldier he had carved.

DM: Okay, we are playing Forgotten Realms in case you didn't hear me. So if you're going to say that a blue fairy came and...

Player: That night Elminster visited the old mans house and brought the wooden soldier to life... because he thought it would be funny.

DM: ...

Player: And if its okay with you may I can take a flaw? If he ever lies then his nose grows really long.

10 points for awesomeness for managing to be both pretty lame and rather witty at the same time.

[BobVosh]

Elminster: One of the biggest fairies every.

My greatest annoyance is when you are at one of those "pray to the gods/drink from the magic well that noone thinks to put this water into a bottle or doesn't work outside of here/whatever" some one gets crazy awesome power, everyone else gets decent, and one person gets "wtf who would even consider this a blessing?"

Alternative: macguffin that dm assures is good, but sucks for every way, shape, and form.

[ocato]

I have to agree that as far as races go, Warforged are pretty easy to integrate into a campaign world, even/especially if it is just the one.

[Kris Strife]

Frankly it is up to the DM to both create the setting and, more important IMO, ensure everyone has fun. At least see if he can come up for a reason why and if its good/entertaining enough, go for it.

On a side note I DMed a campaign were the party sorcerer was played by an idiot... The monk had a sap and everyone took turns knocking said sourcerer uncouncious... repeatedly.

[aboyd]

My current aggravation is players not putting any effort into the game. I'm trying to do a big political game with courtly intrigue and all that. I expect backstory, but I also expect to be disappointed. One of the players won't even tell me what he's interested in playing. He just keeps ignoring my emails and I'm not sure what to do about it.

I'm sure you already have it under control, so this is more general advice for others....

Reward apathy towards your game with apathy towards his character. I don't even mean that in a punitive "I'm mad at you so I'm punishing you" way. I mean that you should invest your time in the players who invest their time. That's the only healthy/sane way to get some enjoyment out of the game. If you bang your head against a wall over some player who doesn't care, your head will hurt and the player still won't care.

Have some players written up backstory? Is there a beneficial way to tie that into the plot? As in, perhaps a player has a few useful contacts? Maybe a hookup for cheap equipment? Maybe a political favor? Maybe a bonus of some kind? Keep the rewards very minor, but still an obvious "positive consequence" of participation. If other players don't come on board, don't push them. They may be fine to forgo benefits if it means they don't have to do anything but show up. If that's their choice, either let them, or give them the boot. But don't hand-hold, you know?

[Brock Samson]

I'm a player, not a GM, but I'm going to air my grievences here anyway. I cannot stand when a GM won't allow any deviation from their prescribed plot. I understand that their has to be some plot so the story moves forward, however when you are left with virtually no options but do everything that your oh-so-important NPC's tell you to do, not allowing for any variations, creativitiy, or side-tracking, you are not allowing your players to participate in anything BUT combat. You, as a player, might as well sit back and just let the NPC's "plot" your entire journey.

[kamikasei]

OP: If he doesn't want to play in the game you're running, he doesn't have to. Nor do you have to invite him back. Simple as that.

I got a thread locked because it said that bards were gay. As in merry.

...Why do you imagine this is something to boast of?

[Thurbane]

...Why do you imagine this is something to boast of?

I don't know about boasting, sounds more like he is bemoaning the injustice of it all...

[kamikasei]

I don't know about boasting, sounds more like he is bemoaning the injustice of it all...

Oh, I may be misreading and he's saying that a thread of his was locked rather than that he got the mods to lock someone else's thread. If that's so then I apologize.

[Irreverent Fool]

I would never hurt a child. Not a human one, anyway. Well... unless I had a time machine to go back and rough up my friend a bit.

My girlfriend had joined our gaming groups and it was generally agreed that she was a fine player (though she didn't know all the rules but what new player does). No problems. Well, one of our campaigns drew to a close and she suggested running a campaign herself. We were wary at first, but looked forward to having our regular DMs join everyone (obviously our alternating DMs never got a chance to play together).

She revealed she had a pretty elaborate world with a good history already drawn up and said that since she was a still new to the rules, she'd like to limit the players to the core rules only. We're not really much for optimization in the group, so the concept of plying such terrible classes as monk and fighter doesn't really turn our stomachs.

Well, we had about three weeks before the game. Most of us had already come up with character concepts and most of us seemed glad to not have to pore over tons of books to find the good stuff. We ended up focusing more on the characters themselves. Come game day, we're all ready. Except for one. No big deal. Roll up your character now. We have a fighter, monk, wizard, and sorcerer. You want to play a healer? We could use one, but it's no big deal if you don't want to. Did you hear Sledge's (the fighter) backstory? You could be that childhood friend.

I want to play a Duskblade and then PrC into...

Oh, we're just doing core-only because she's not too familiar with the rules.

What? Core-only is lame. There's no options. If I'd have known it was going to be core-only I wouldn't have bothered even coming down here...

He proceeded to complain for the next several minutes. There was an awkward silence for a few minutes. Then we got over it and invited someone else to take his spot. Her game has proven to be the most fun we've had in a long time. We don't talk about character builds or when we'll get the next cool ability. We roleplay. We talk about how we're going to stop the lich or the cultists, or what happened to Brie - the trade city that just up and disappeared.

It is satisfying when we have to end on a cliffhanger and tell this guy at some point "Oh, don't bother coming down on Sunday. We're doing her game again this week."

Oh and for the record, I don't see how saying that bards are gay is any worse than saying that sorcerers are heterosexual.

obnoxious
sig

[Tormsskull]

Go go Kiddyglove Rangers!

The gloves are made from real kids, by the way.

I never thought this day would come. I agree with Tengu.

[The Rose Dragon]

By the way, Irreverent Fool, your not-quite-a-sig sig has succeeded in annoying me to no end. Congrats.