level 23 evil cleric = infinite strength

[ThrustVectoring]

grab Permanent Emanation as your class feat at level 23 (can't get it earlier since it requires 25 ranks of spellcraft), and use it to get a permanent Greater Consumptive Field. This causes every creature within 30 feet with 9 hp or fewer to take a will save or die. Caster gains 1d8 temporary hit points and +2 strength for each creature that dies within range. These last until the spell's duration expires, which is basically as long as the field stays up. Now use all your spells each day casting summon monster, and summon fiendish dire rats from the summon monster I list. These rats must then instantly take a will save or die, and each one that dies counts towards your strength bonus and temporary hit points.

[Gorbash]

You can have 25 ranks in Spellcraft on lvl 22. Max is lvl +3, not lvl +2

[Ganurath]

You can have 25 ranks in Spellcraft on lvl 22. Max is lvl +3, not lvl +2

When can you pick up a feat at L22?

[Starsinger]

You can have 25 ranks in Spellcraft on lvl 22. Max is lvl +3, not lvl +2

That requires you to find a way to get an epic level feat at level 22.

Edit: The appropriate thing to do would be to bemoan my "Ninja'd" state.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Divine metamagic + Persistent Spell.

[ThrustVectoring]

Divine metamagic + Persistent Spell.

mind telling me what those do or where to look them up?

[FMArthur]

That's not infinite strength, it's merely limitless. At any given time you will have a finite strength value.

edit: DMM reduces the cost of metamagic by expending Turn attempts.

Persistent Spell is a metamagic that lets a spell last all day.

The combination of the two allows for near-epic cheese at non-epic levels. Besides, who plays at Epic levels? Broken combos are entirely unsurprising and unimpressive when epic spellcasting comes into play.

[martyboy74]

You can get NI strength at level 21. Take epic spellcasting, and laugh.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

mind telling me what those do or where to look them up?

It allows you to have a Greater consumptive field with a duration of 24 hours as soon as you are able to cast the spell. It is not as powerful as the combination you suggest, but it is available that much earlier.

Divine Metamagic is in Complete Divine and Persistent spell is in Complete Arcane.

If you find the concept of absurdly high power interesting you will like those too.

[Baxbart]

1: Attain level 13, make sure you have DMM: Persistant spell and lots of Turning attempts to spare.
2: Cast Greater Consumptive Field, burning turn attempts to persist (24 hours).
3: Strip off and run laps through the nearest village full of commoners. When they all die, move on to the next village, then town... etc
4: ???
5: Profit!

[monty]

The kobolds laugh at your pitiful cleric.

[ThrustVectoring]

That's not infinite strength, it's merely limitless. At any given time you will have a finite strength value.

edit: DMM reduces the cost of metamagic by expending Turn attempts.

Persistent Spell is a metamagic that lets a spell last all day.

The combination of the two allows for near-epic cheese at non-epic levels.

sorry about the infinite -- unbounded mixup, its a holdover from playing magic:the gathering, where most unbounded combinations ("gain as much life as you want") are commonly called "infinite".

And for the DMM/Persistent Spell, what would be the lowest level you could pull off a day-long consumptive field(L4 cleric spell)? It would be relatively easy to summon fiendish dire rats over a pit or something, or otherwise into something that would take them below 0 HP.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Summon Monster 1 trick doesn't work. Summoned creatures don't actually die, they just return to where ever they came from. Don't get Greater, just Permanent Emanation: Consumptive Field. Then by chickens for 2cp each and a bucket of water. Drown one, it goes to 0 hp and fails the save to give you +2 Str. This trick has been around for as long as that spell has, it's far from new.

[ThrustVectoring]

The Summon Monster 1 trick doesn't work. Summoned creatures don't actually die, they just return to where ever they came from. Don't get Greater, just Permanent Emanation: Consumptive Field. Then by chickens for 2cp each and a bucket of water. Drown one, it goes to 0 hp and fails the save to give you +2 Str. This trick has been around for as long as that spell has, it's far from new.

Care to point out where it says that summoned creatures don't die?

[BRC]

How about this
1)Attain Level 23, get a decent charisma score (Let's say +2)
2) Have Taken the Leadership feat at this point you will have 158 followers, make them all Adepts and have them pool all their NPC WBL money into a pot with which you hire more adepts.
3) Have Epic Spellcasting.
4) Inform everybody else that you have epic spellcasting and hundreds of casters to contribute spell slots.
5) Do whatever you want, and we mean it, anything. Epic spellcasting is cool like that.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Care to point out where it says that summoned creatures don't die?

Well they die, but are reformed 24 hours later.

So for the purpose of spells and effects it is reasonable to assume that since summoned creatures can be killed they can also be used as fuel.

[insecure]

How about this
1)Attain Level 23, get a decent charisma score (Let's say +2)
2) Have Taken the Leadership feat at this point you will have 158 followers, make them all Adepts and have them pool all their NPC WBL money into a pot with which you hire more adepts.
3) Have Epic Spellcasting.
4) Inform everybody else that you have epic spellcasting and hundreds of casters to contribute spell slots.
5) Do whatever you want, and we mean it, anything. Epic spellcasting is cool like that.
6)....
7) PROFIT!

Fix'd that for you.

[Worira]

The thing is that an infinite combination in magic has to take place in one turn (the execution, not the buildup). This is infinite only in the sense that a Clearwater Goblet grants infinite life. Also, breaking the game in epic levels is not exactly difficult.

[Lyndworm]

for the DMM/Persistent Spell, what would be the lowest level you could pull off a day-long consumptive field(L4 cleric spell)?

You can't take DMM: Persist until you have DMM: Extend, so you'll need to pick that up.

You have to spend one Turn/Rebuke plus one more for each level increase in the metamagic feat you’re using. Persistent adds +6, so you'll need to use up 7 attempts.

All clerics get a number of attempts per day equal to 3+Cha. So, if you have a Cha score of at least 18, you can accomplish this task the same day you get access to the spell: Level 7.

It should be known, however, that the feat Extra Turning adds four Turn/Rebuke attempts. So, with it, you can still accomplish this goal at level 7 with a Cha of 10.

Zack

[monty]

You can't take DMM: Persist until you have DMM: Extend, so you'll need to pick that up.

No. You need Extend for Persist, but you don't need DMM Extend for anything.

[Lyndworm]

No. You need Extend for Persist, but you don't need DMM Extend for anything.

Wow. DMM is even more broken then I thought. Who saw that coming?

Zack

[Douglas]

You do need Persistent Spell before you can take DMM(Persist), and you need Persistent Spell's prereq of course, but you don't need to take DMM for the prereq metamagic. Still three feats, and that's before however many Extra Turnings you take to fuel it.

[Vortling]

You do need Persistent Spell before you can take DMM(Persist), and you need Persistent Spell's prereq of course, but you don't need to take DMM for the prereq metamagic. Still three feats, and that's before however many Extra Turnings you take to fuel it.

Assuming you don't pick up the planning domain. Planning domain grants Extend spell as a bonus feat for its domain power. With the planning domain you can have a human cleric persisting as early as level 1 with enough CHA. Or if they pick up the Undeath domain which grants Extra turning as a bonus feat for its domain power.

[chiasaur11]

The kobolds laugh at your pitiful cleric.

But who don't they laugh at?

(Other than O-Chul)

[monty]

But who don't they laugh at?

(Other than O-Chul)

To clarify, they laugh at your pitiful cleric's pitiful attempt to reach true power.

[Randomosity]

For ThrustVectoring, since no one actually answered his question.

Summoning

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

Emphasis added for emphasis.

Also, agreed that infinite or limitless Strength is pretty lackluster a) at epic levels and b) when those epic levels are already coupled by normal epic casting.

[Talic]

There is also a residual feat that allow for summoning small elementals. Useful for powering this.

Further, let's try to cheese this a bit.

Summon Monster 1 gets the right creature.

So you can get your creatures up to...

(Level 1 slots) + (Level 2 slots x 1d3) + ((Level 3-9 slots - 2) x (1d4+1))
Factoring in DMM Persist Greater Consumptive Field, and DMM Persist Divine Power.

[jcsw]

If you allow dragon magazine... the chicken infested FLAW gives you a 50% chance to draw a chicken instead of whatever you were intending to draw whenever you're about to draw something.

1. You need to be a commoner to take the flaw, so commoner 1/cleric 13...

2. Take the planning domain, Persistant spell and DMM Persist. Take quick draw.

3. Buy a spell component pouch.

4. Cast DMM Persist Greater Consumptive Field

5. Draw the dart (as a free action, cause it's a weapon) from the pouch that you would normally use to cast Melf's Acid Arrow.

6. If it's a chicken, it dies, drop it as a free action. If it's a dart, drop it as a free action. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

7. Be an illumnian cleric, who can use strength to determine spells/day instead of wis.

8. ????

9. Profit!!!

[FMArthur]

If you allow dragon magazine... the chicken infested FLAW gives you a 50% chance to draw a chicken instead of whatever you were intending to draw whenever you're about to draw something.

1. You need to be a commoner to take the flaw, so commoner 1/cleric 13...

2. Take the planning domain, Persistant spell and DMM Persist. Take quick draw.

3. Buy a spell component pouch.

4. Cast DMM Persist Greater Consumptive Field

5. Draw the dart (as a free action, cause it's a weapon) from the pouch that you would normally use to cast Melf's Acid Arrow.

6. If it's a chicken, it dies, drop it as a free action. If it's a dart, drop it as a free action. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

7. Be an illumnian cleric, who can use strength to determine spells/day instead of wis.

8. ????

9. Profit!!!

10. Finish this trivial silliness and get on with your original plan to instantly flood the world with chickens.

[BRC]

10. Finish this trivial silliness and get on with your original plan to instantly flood the world with chickens.

In DnD, "Free" or "Infinite" anything always leads to destroying the world and the laws of physics.