[4E] Bard Preview Is Up!

[Inyssius Tor]

...but I can't see it.

And if this is news to you, you probably can't see it either.

Ha ha.

[Artanis]

*clicks the link*

*blinks*

*starts swearing*

[AKA_Bait]

I see... they want me to pay for a subscription now. Nah. I'll just wait and pay for the finished product in PHB 2 in that case.

If someone else who does want to shell out for this would give a general description of how the decided to handle the class I'd be grateful though.

[Zeful]

Umm, I think it a good idea this topic is closed.

[AKA_Bait]

Umm, I think it a good idea this topic is closed.

As a rule of thumb, do not copy or disclose more information than you would expect to see in a brief book or movie review.

I don't think it needs to be locked. Folks who want to discuss it just need to remember that they can't directly copy sections of the article or give away IP. Essentially, the same discussion rules apply as to any WotC products that are not OGL.

For example, we can talk all we like about the good and bad parts of the Warblade. We just can't copy and paste the entry.

[Inyssius Tor]

Are we on the Wizards forum? No.

Did I ask for specific, line-by-line, copy-pasted details? Or, for that matter, any details at all? No.

So... when someone breaks our Forum Rules, or for that matter their Forum Rules, then someone Up On High can get with the scrubbing and the locking and the banning. But it doesn't seem quite warranted at this point, does it?

[Zeful]

Like I said, I think it's a good idea, I don't want the giant served with a cease and desist order (which is the least that can be done, not to mention the possibility of a lawsuit) over something. And was just informing others that Wizards is (apparently) cracking down on IP violations.

Better safe than sorry.

[Inyssius Tor]

Well, why aren't we locking all the 4E threads? Surely everything except the Warforged, the Artificer, and the Barbarian is pay-only content! Can we discuss the Compendium? Can we discuss the Warlock? Can we discuss the Swordmage? Can we discuss Orcus?

OF COURSE NOT! WE MIGHT GET SOMEONE SUED!

[LibraryOgre]

As they said, no more than you would expect to see in a review.

Which means, certainly, that we can be told that the Bard is the first Divine Striker (Bard actually meaning B'ard, which is short for Board; they give thanks to their deities for the boards with which they hit themselves). We can be told that their powers work primarily off Constitution, and get bonuses equal to their penalties in Intelligence and Wisdom.

You know, if someone's bothered to pay WotC for preview information. 'Cause I like paying to get excited about a product that I'd also have to buy (provided, of course, I was going to ever give money to WotC again).

[Starsinger]

...but I can't see it.

And if this is news to you, you probably can't see it either.

Ha ha.

... I hate you so much right now.

[Hzurr]

Which means, certainly, that we can be told that the Bard is the first Divine Striker (Bard actually meaning B'ard, which is short for Board; they give thanks to their deities for the boards with which they hit themselves). We can be told that their powers work primarily off Constitution, and get bonuses equal to their penalties in Intelligence and Wisdom.

*blinks*

*gets down on knees, folds hands*

"Dear God, thank you for enabling me to detect sarcasm. If you hadn't given me this ability, I would have thrown something violently. Please continue giving me bonuses to my wis modifier, and allow me to re-roll sense motives when I get a natural 1. Amen."

[LibraryOgre]

*blinks*

*gets down on knees, folds hands*

Dear God, thank you for enabling me to detect sarcasm. If you hadn't given me this ability, I would have thrown something violently. Please continue giving me bonuses to my wis modifier, and allow me to re-roll sense motives when I get a natural 1. Amen.

I thought the blatant Monty Python reference would be enough... but, then, this is the company that provided us with the Godsforsaken Realms...

[Starsinger]

I thought the blatant Monty Python reference would be enough... but, then, this is the company that provided us with the Godsforsaken Realms...

It's such a pity they couldn't remain Forgotten... innit?


So for anyone who's actually subscribed to Dragon, how tasty is the bard?

[RTGoodman]

I paid for the three months (I think) as a preview, but I haven't actually looked at it much since then, so this was sort of a surprise for me.


Once I get a chance to look through it, I'll be back with info.

[Siegel]

I paid for the three months (I think) as a preview, but I haven't actually looked at it much since then, so this was sort of a surprise for me.


Once I get a chance to look through it, I'll be back with info.

You will save the day

[KIDS]

Not to market 4E or WotC, but the price of subscription doesn't seem to big to me. I will seriously consider shelling out the price as soon as my credit card arrives...

@rtg: we'll all be waiting and counting down with as much anticipation as for the US elections :D

[Oracle_Hunter]

Like I said, I think it's a good idea, I don't want the giant served with a cease and desist order (which is the least that can be done, not to mention the possibility of a lawsuit) over something. And was just informing others that Wizards is (apparently) cracking down on IP violations.

Better safe than sorry.

The law does not work that way.

More importantly, use of copyrighted material for the purpose of a review falls under a Fair Use exception (so long as you don't cut & paste the "heart" of the material). I doubt The Giant is going to get a DMCA Takedown notice if someone posts a review of the matter. Or even the power source and a brief description of whatever the "bard mechanic" is.

No rules, no copy-paste. It'd be like explaining 4e Fighters as:

"they use the Martial power source (which means they use their personal strength for powers) and are primarily focused on specific weapons. They can lock down enemies adjacent to them, and are pretty well protected from attacks against AC. Strength is their primary stat."

It's silly that WotC doesn't give some teaser text about the Bard here. They're supposed to be enticing you to pre-order their PHB II by convincing you that the classes inside are going to be awesome.

[Enlong]

And what happened to letting us get a playtestable version of it, like they did with Barbarian and Artificer (who isn't actually playable bast 10th level, without multiclassing)? Don't they want more people to be able to discover whatever flaws it has and give them feedback?

[Inyssius Tor]

This is a playtestable version of it!

It's just that you can't playtest it.

[Enlong]

ARGABPHIBLE!
That makes precious little sense. More people playtesting it means they get more feedback and ol' bardy gets closer to perfection.

O' course, I'm just ticked because Bard is one of my favorite classes ever and I really wanted to see his playtest version.

[Oracle_Hunter]

And what happened to letting us get a playtestable version of it, like they did with Barbarian and Artificer (who isn't actually playable bast 10th level, without multiclassing)? Don't they want more people to be able to discover whatever flaws it has and give them feedback?

Probably not. They want people to start paying into their proprietary network to get a steady revenue stream from subscriptions. Putting "new content" behind the wall is a highly traditional way of doing this.

Of course, like the US newspapers who tried the same thing, they'll probably find out that they can't stop the leaks of "news" either. In any case, they won't be able to stop people from thumbing through their books when they come out - all they're doing is harming their pre-order business.

[LibraryOgre]

Not to market 4E or WotC, but the price of subscription doesn't seem to big to me. I will seriously consider shelling out the price as soon as my credit card arrives...

Wizards of the Coast will get no more money from me.

[Tengu_temp]

If someone else who does want to shell out for this would give a general description of how the decided to handle the class I'd be grateful though.

I second this request.

Didn't read the rest of this thread. You silly Americans and your obsession with lawsuits.

[Hzurr]

The idea behind making the Barbarian and Artificer stuff public (as well as the articles on things like Warlocks and Warforged) was to show people, "Hey, here are the things you can expect from a subscription, just so you know what kinds of things you're paying for."

Quite honestly, following that up immediately with a class that people have really been wanting information on since the beginning of 4E is a dang good business strategy.

And as for "Making people want to buy the PHB 2," honestly that's what the Barbarian playtest is making me want. If I know that if I buy the PHB 2, I'll be getting good, classes that let me do things I wasn't able to do before, then that makes me want to buy it.

Now, naturally, I'd like to be able to see the Bard class like I was able to see Barbarian, but that just means that their marketing department is doing their job right, not that they're horrible people for not releasing this to everyone (even though we (and they) all know it'll be scattered to the 4 corners of the internet within 12 hours).

You silly Americans and your obsession with lawsuits.

This is one of those situations where .001% of the population makes it a nightmare for the rest of us, so that we all have to be paranoid about it. Most Americans don't want to sue people for every little stupid thing (this excludes people in the St. Louis area. Oy Vey), but we have to be on our guards for the rest of the idiots who decide that because things didn't go their way, they get to throw a fit and make everyone else pay for it.

[Person_Man]

Wait, since when has a copy and paste of material they post on their website been illegal? It's on their website? We're not re-printing it for cash? I'm blocked from WotC, as are most others who work for the government and large businesses. Why would they want to prevent me from reading material about their product which might convince me to buy the product?

Bah! Another reason to be pissed at 4E.

[RTGoodman]

Behold, I come bearing gifts!


Bards are Arcane Leaders with a "sub-role" of Controller. Their limited to the same sort of weapons as in 3.x (i.e., nothing you wouldn't expect), plus wands, and have the same staying power (in HP, surges, etc.) as Clerics, meaning their not TOO squishy.

Bards still focus on Charisma, but they get mileage out of Intelligence and/or Constitution also. For instance, the powers they have that are sort of their version of the Warlord's Commanding Presence (it's called Bardic Virtue) can let an ally that misses an attack move, or let an ally that hit gain some temporary HP, with the first having an Int-based bonus and the second a Con-based bonus. As the article says, "All bards use Charisma for their attacks. Intelligence increases the effect of tricky attacks, and Constitution is best for powers that inspire allies."

4E still reign supreme in the variety department, getting 5 trained skills at 1st level (Arcana plus 4 from a big list) AND a natural bonus on untrained skills, plus the Multiclass Versatility feature which lets them take multiple [Multiclass] feats. For healing, they get the same "X Word" power as other leaders, plus an ability that lets them heal allies better during short rests. Along with the fact that they are also Ritual Casters, that means they can probably act as an EXCELLENT fifth character, being decent at a lot of things and GOOD at a few things. Oh, and they STILL are better at Diplomacy, getting an encounter power that gives a nice bonus to it, but I hardly think it's Diplomancer-level power.

As far as powers go, Bards have a LOT going for them that I personally like. For instance, they have MULTIPLE powers that automatically mark the target FOR ALLIES. For instance, if a Bard uses his misdirected mark at-will, the target takes some damage AND one ally within a certain number of squares marks the target. I think by this alone the Bard is the Paladin's new best friend, but I'll have to check the wording on Divine Challenge before I'm sure.

Other than that, Bards get a lot of powers with the Psychic keyword that are either sort of reminiscent of the Illusionist Wizard powers from a while back, or are a lot like standard Leader powers (sliding allies, healing allies, protecting allies with a sanctuary-like power). They also get several Utility powers that give them skill bonuses or give skill bonuses to allies (i.e., inspire competence). At higher levels, Bards get powers are more Wizard-like with significant control effects (including powers that dominate or slow), but also good traditional bard spells and abilities (hideous laughter, unluck, illusory disguises for the party, invisibility for the bard and/or his allies, etc.)

Overall, it seems like a REALLY cool class and one I'd want to play, but nothing really all that different from what folks were expecting (except you loonies that thought he'd be a Primal Controller or some mess like that ). I think PHB2 is going to be totally worth the money, and I'll be waiting for it.

And I think that's a good review that gets the point across without giving away any real information that would get me in any sort of trouble.

[Inyssius Tor]

Wait, since when has a copy and paste of material they post on their website been illegal? It's on their website? We're not re-printing it for cash? I'm blocked from WotC, as are most others who work for the government and large businesses. Why would they want to prevent me from reading material about their product which might convince me to buy the product?

Bah! Another reason to be pissed at 4E.

Because you haven't subscribed to Dragon Magazine lately. I presume they are also not cool with photocopied .pdfs of Martial Power.

[Oracle_Hunter]

And as for "Making people want to buy the PHB 2," quite honestly, that's what the Barbarian playtest is making me want. If I know that if I buy the PHB 2, I'll be getting good, classes that let me do things I wasn't able to do before, then that makes me want to buy it.

Now, naturally, I'd like to be able to see the Bard class like I was able to see Barbarian, but that just means that their marketing department is doing their job right, not that they're horrible people for not releasing this to everyone (even though we all know it'll be scattered to the 4 corners of the internet within 12 hours).

See, that's the point. They did it right with the Barbarian - release a partial preview so that people get a sense as to what the mechanics will be like, and then release a full version later for people to buy. You stir up buzz as people begin playing around with the mechanics, which invests them in the class (because they're already daydreaming about their New Barbarian) so that they'll be more likely to pre-order the PHB II book.

But with the Bard, they're not doing that. A small number of hardcore WotC fans will see the mechanics, while the rest of us get irritated that WotC is "trying to squeeze money out of us." Eventually, someone with DDI will leak it, and the Internet gets a look at it anyways. All WotC did is sacrifice brand loyalty for the subscriber income stream; plus they lose control of the dissemination of information.

Heck, look at the buzz they worked up over 4e pre-release. You had websites devoted to rounding up stray remarks from the developers in an attempt to puzzle out what the system would be before it was released. They got a huge number of pre-orders (I think?) from people who got invested in their conception of the system, which is just easy money for WotC.

EDIT:

Wait, since when has a copy and paste of material they post on their website been illegal? It's on their website? We're not re-printing it for cash? I'm blocked from WotC, as are most others who work for the government and large businesses. Why would they want to prevent me from reading material about their product which might convince me to buy the product?

Bah! Another reason to be pissed at 4E.

It has always been illegal under US Copyright Law. Specifically making an unauthorized copy of copyrighted material (for cash or for not) violates Section 106(1). Look here for the full law.

By the way, Section 107 has the details of the Fair Use Exception, though its actual boundaries are defined more by case law than statute.

[Morty]

Well, apart from multiple multiclassing feats, looks like a solid class but nothing really interesting like barbarian's rage mechanics. I take offense in calling me a loony, though.

[Hzurr]

snip

This is actually exactly what I was hoping for with the bard. Thanks a bunch for passing on the info.

Also, is it just me, or is m0rt a bit of a loony?