Einhanded Combat (d&d 3.5)

[celtois]

I've been looking for a feat chain or the like to make einhanders a viable option
in d&d. At the moment if you take them you may as well just use them as 2h's.
So my question is do any of you fine folks know of a good system for einhanded combat.

For those that don't know einhanded combat is fighting with a sword in one hand and nothing in the other.

Also the first person to mention the einhander feat from phb2 dies!
I said viable options.

[RTGoodman]

Well, there's this feat in PHB2 called Einhander...


Actually, there's NOT that much for one-handed fighting in 3.x - there's a TON for TWF and a lot of good stuff for two-handed weapons, but not much for einhanders.

The only thing that comes to my mind right now is (I think) the Duelist PrC that gives some bonuses if you wield a weapon one-handed.

EDIT: And actually, the Duelist just says you have to not be using a shield, so I think technically it works better for two-handed weapon wielders. The only thing you lose is deflect arrows, and that isn't until 9th level...

[celtois]

I remember there used to be a feat chain on the homebrew forums but I lost my link to it. If anyone knows where it is. Or has a system they use please share. I tried making one but I quickly decided I'd over powered it .
so I figured I'd ask around here before I consider trying again. Just to see if anyone has something they use.

Thanks for the response though.

[Lyndworm]

Have you heard about the Graceful Edge feat? It requires BAB+1, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus with the chosen One-Handed Slashing weapon.

"When fighting with the chosen weapon in your primary hand and no weapon or shield in your off-hand, receive the following benefits:
a) treat the chosen weapon as ‘Light’ (i.e., Weapon Finesse applies to it);
b) receive a +1 Shield bonus to AC; and
c) if Fighting Defensively or using Total Defense, receive a +2 Shield bonus to AC."

It's not great, but it could help.

Zack

[Nerd-o-rama]

Where's that feat from, Lyndworm?

[The_Snark]

It's tricky to do. Your best bet is to focus on increasing your AC, since that's the one thing most one-handed abilities tend to be geared towards (and damage-increasing options, like Power Attack and Sneak Attack, are all much more effective with two weapons or two-handed weapons). Unfortunately, increasing your AC is often seen as unhelpful in a party situation; it's not nearly as useless as the CharOp boards would have you think, but it's not a terribly strong option either.

A decent fencer-style build would probably begin in fighter or rogue and go into Duelist. Weapon Finesse is an obvious stylistic choice and good if you plan on sacrificing damage potential in exchange for incredibly high AC, but not actually at all essential; a Strength-based weapon like a longsword would give you slightly higher damage. Combat Expertise and Improved Feint are likewise possible choices, but also not essential. Improved Disarm fits flavor nicely, but unless you're playing against mostly humanoid opponents is not very good. (Race-specific, campaign-specific note: the Races of Eberron book contains a kalashtar racial feat that gives significant bonuses to Combat Expertise or Fighting Defensively, such as gaining an insight bonus on your next attack roll equal to the penalty you took on attack rolls this turn.) The duelist's Elaborate Parry ability is quite good; once you have it, you'll want to be using it more or less every round. Ironically, that makes other feats that improve your ability to fight defensively good choices, including... you guessed it... Einhander.

By that level, of course, enemies are laughing at your 1d6+5 damage (or whatever it happens to be). I'd actually recommend taking Improved Critical, and then following it up with Staggering Critical (Drow of the Underdark). Boost your critical-confirming rolls any way you can, and then load a bunch of those nasty enhancements that only activate on critical hits on: Prismatic Burst, Cursespewing, Enervating, Heavenly Burst, Doom Burst, Weakening, Enfeebling... the Magic Item Compendium (all of those are from that book, except Enfeebling, which is from the Book of Exalted Deeds) is full of much more interesting enchantments than the elemental burst enchantments, which are to be avoided.

Alternatively, a swashbuckler/rogue with the Daring Outlaw feat will work, and will probably be less complex, too. It would be a much better build if it used Two-weapon Fighting, but built well it will be decent.

Alternatively alternatively, a swordsage from Tome of Battle will do just fine with the right maneuvers. They don't use shields anyway, and many strikes only let you attack once; those are also the strikes that tend to boost your damage or give you special effects, making your weapon's base damage rather less important. It's probably optimal to use a Shadow Hand weapon (shortsword fits pretty well) and pick up Weapon Finesse and Shadow Hand, but I've seen a swordsage who used a rapier instead.

The advice about criticals could apply to any of the three builds, if you don't have many feats to occupy your time at higher levels and have a bit of wealth to spare (and hopefully a friendly magician to cast Greater Magic Weapon for you).

Generally, it takes a lot more work to make a one-handed fighter good, especially if you're looking to have it resemble any kind of real-world fighting style (my suggestions are arranged from most accurate/least powerful to least accurate/most powerful). As someone who's dabbled in fencing, I can tell you that I wouldn't want to be up against a man in full plate, longsword, and shield while armed with only a rapier... much less fight a dragon with only that.

[paddyfool]

Here's how to do it with Core stuff, and without a feat chain: don't be too strict about keeping your off-hand "empty".

At lower levels, a buckler would leave your hand free without giving you the -1 to hit it would a THF, and at higher levels, a dancing shield would be your friend, just as for a TWF or THF build. You don't have to think of the buckler as the usual shape; something like a high-quality bit of armor on your off fore-arm can be imagined as working in a vaguely similar way, and you can dispense with any skill penalties and encumberment easily by getting a masterwork darkwood one. Remember, you don't just lose AC from going without a shield; there's also the matter of a potentially rather useful item slot for other effects.

Also, you want to take advantage of your free off-hand. There are four main ways to do that that I can think of: 1) a handy stash of wands (even with light armor, your arcane spell failure will be pretty low); equally, spellcasting if your build allows 2) the flexibility to switch to a two-handed grip when you need to (e.g. for Power Attack vs something with high DR), 3) manipulating the battlefield (overturning braziers, grabbing the plot point, dragging prone party members out of danger... all very fun, but somewhat dependent on a flexible DM) and 4) unarmed combat feats. In fact, if it's in keeping with the character you want to play, you could take a level dip in Monk to get Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (or Improved Grapple, if you prefer, but it seems less fitting somehow), improved unarmed damage and three good saves. The Wis bonus to AC might also be handy, if you felt like being unarmored, although admittedly at higher levels you could get that more easily from Monk's Belt.

Precision damage, such as the Rogue's Sneak Attack, improved Crits, or, non-Core, various Int bonuses to damage, is nice when it works, but don't get too dependent on it - it'll let you down often enough to be quite frustrating. (Undead, Constructs, Fortified Armor etc.)

Finally, take some ranks in Tumble to take advantage of the higher mobility that many lightly-armored builds of this kind would have. And that's about all I can think of, for now. Have fun!

[Tengu_temp]

I'd just rule that as long as you hold nothing in your off-hand, you count as wielding your main hand weapon in two hands. Unless it can only be held in one hand, of course.

[Riffington]

As someone who's dabbled in fencing, I can tell you that I wouldn't want to be up against a man in full plate, longsword, and shield while armed with only a rapier... much less fight a dragon with only that.

If it weren't against the rules of fencing, would you keep your off-hand empty in a match, or would you put a shield or parrying dagger in it?

[Morty]

As someone who's dabbled in fencing, I can tell you that I wouldn't want to be up against a man in full plate, longsword, and shield while armed with only a rapier... much less fight a dragon with only that.

When talking about D&D, "it wouldn't work in real world" isn't really a problem.

[Hal]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Snowflake Wardance yet.

[celtois]

Thank you all for your responses they really show how fighting with 1 hand can be viable option. Now I have another question for you all is there anything you can do for a more heavily armoured fighter. Or is fighting einhanded a light armor only thing in d&d?

[jcsw]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Snowflake Wardance yet.

IIRC, that's because it can be used with two weapons.

[Fishy]

Thank you all for your responses they really show how fighting with 1 hand can be viable option. Now I have another question for you all is there anything you can do for a more heavily armoured fighter. Or is fighting einhanded a light armor only thing in d&d?

I can't think of anything, offhand. (Pun not intended, but it can stay). But really, if you were going to wear heavy armor, why *wouldn't* you carry a shield?

For my hypothetical Duelist, I've been thinking about Swashbuckler/Monk, using the Kung Fu Genius feat. You end up with Int to damage, Dex to attack and Int to AC twice, before you start Elaborately Parrying. The downside, of course, is that if you Min/Max too hard and put nothing in strength at all, you kind of suck until you take Swashbuckler 3 and Monk 1, and it takes a while for the good Duelist stuff to kick in.

I'd go with either Swashbuckler 5/Monk 2, for the better hit die and another random +1 dodge bonus, or Swashbuckler 3/Monk 4, for the better saves and Fast Movement.

[celtois]

Okay given the lack of really good feats and the like for einhanded combat, I'll work on my own feat chain. Once its complete I'll put it in this thread and in the homebrew boards.

[Keld Denar]

IIRC, that's because it can be used with two weapons.

Debatable at best.

Benefit: By expending one of your daily uses of bardic music, you may perform a deadly style of combat known as the snowflake wardance. Activating a snowflake wardance is a free action, and once activated, you add your Charisma modifier to your attack rolls with any slashing melee weapon you wield in one hand. This bonus...

Weapon(singular) you wield in one hand (singular). Makes no mention of each hand, or weapons. Thus, debatable, at best. Chock it up to poor game design, but reading RAW as either way is possible, so saying that you absolutely can or can't isn't accurate. FWIW, all DMs I play with rule that its 1 weapon in 1 hand, and they are pretty strict on RAW adherance.

A Bard20 with SWFD, a Crystal Echoblade, Dragonfire Inspiration, and the whole opimized IC gig would do pretty well as an Einhander style fighter. Does good damage with a weapon in 1 hand, and is Cha driven. Hmmm, too bad bards don't get Dismissal on their spell list, because then you could dip Sacred Exorcist and get Divine Might for even more cha based damage to your 1handed attack.

[The_Snark]

If it weren't against the rules of fencing, would you keep your off-hand empty in a match, or would you put a shield or parrying dagger in it?

I'm not sure; I'd have to learn how to fight that way. The off hand is kept behind the body while fencing, and used as a counterweight for lunging and recovering; in order to use that hand, I'd have to be using a different stance, which would honestly probably mean learning a whole new fighting style. I couldn't tell you whether that style would work well against another fencer or not. There were duels that took place with a sword and a parrying dagger, so there are presumably styles of fighting that do teach you to fight that way.

A largish shield would be pretty easy to use to defend oneself, and would definitely be cheating (especially in foil), but it would also seriously mess up my attempts at hitting people unless I learned to work with it. Evidently, fencing does not make you proficient with shields.

When talking about D&D, "it wouldn't work in real world" isn't really a problem.

I know. D&D designers do sometimes throw in nods to realism, though, and I think this style's relative weakness is one of them. It's just hard to imagine a person with a rapier slaying giant monsters.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Duskblades manage fine with einhanding it. Even they do better THW, but with all the extra damage they can tack on, it's not a huge loss.

Elusive Target works for einhanding as well.

[zaei]

Debatable at best.

Weapon(singular) you wield in one hand (singular). Makes no mention of each hand, or weapons. Thus, debatable, at best. Chock it up to poor game design, but reading RAW as either way is possible, so saying that you absolutely can or can't isn't accurate. FWIW, all DMs I play with rule that its 1 weapon in 1 hand, and they are pretty strict on RAW adherance.

Saying this is debatable at best is misleading. The wording on the feat is completely ambiguous.

I would personally read it as allowing you to apply the bonus to any weapon you wield in one hand (so you apply the bonus to the weapon you are wielding in your main hand, and the weapon you are wielding in your off hand, as both of them are a weapon wielded in one hand). I don't know if I would DM it that way, but that's how I read it.

[Epinephrine]

Agree with the Snark - the point of fighting with one hand is the small target area you present. Putting a weapon in your other hand would be a big adjustment, since you have a completely different stance.

[Ellisthion]

I played quite a fun one-handed duelist a while back. It was a core-only game, so I went Fighter/Wizard/Duelist. Sorcerer would give you more spells, but I went Wizard for roleplaying reasons and the Int synergy with Duelist. By casting Shield and Mage Armour, and fighting Defensively, I got quite a respectable AC (with some magical equipment, I had over 32 by level 10 or so).

Blind Fighting is a must for something like this, because an otherwise an invisible enemy negates most of your bonuses. Also, combine Tumble with Duelist + Mobility to become basically immune to AoOs. Use your mobility to get into flanking positions with the Rogue.

The Einhander feat in PH2 works really well in conjunction with this. If you're worried about damage, there's a feat in... um... Complete Adventurer, I think, which gives +d6 damage whilst fighting defensively, but you'll probably be pressed for feats if you're going Duelist.

I took Weapon Focus, Spec, and Impr. Crit for Rapier, but the lame amount of damage I was doing would make me advise not doing so.

[monty]

The Einhander feat in PH2

Technically, you're not the first person to mention it, so I guess you don't die.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Debatable at best.

Weapon(singular) you wield in one hand (singular). Makes no mention of each hand, or weapons.

English grammar says that it can be used with more than one weapon. Then again, that's seldom relevant to D&D rules discussion.

"any slashing melee weapon you wield in one hand". If you're two weapon fighting, you're wielding a slashing melee weapon in one hand, and you're wielding a slashing melee weapon in in one (other) hand. The feat would apply to both. Now, we can argue semantics and intent all day, I'm just trying to parse the sentence.

[celtois]

I've posted my newly created feats for einhanders in the homebrew forum

link:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96149

enjoy

[Ellisthion]

Technically, you're not the first person to mention it, so I guess you don't die.

Heh, I did notice that before I posted it. Safety in technicalities

[SoD]

Well, for a +2 sheild bonus (at the cost of 3 feats) take TWF, TWD and imp TWD, beforehand convincing your DM that using a sword in one hand and nothing else is duel-weilding a sword and an unarmed strike. I mean, you get your bonus from TWD when weilding 2 weapons, even if you only fight with the one.

But is it really worth a +2 AC for 3 feats? No? Thought not.

[celtois]

Thats where you look at my feats ......then you don't need to do stuff like that
cause I made feats just for einhanders!

see them here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96149

[Kaiyanwang]

About Einhanded Combat feats, there are few feats even in dungeon magazine compendium, take a look.

IMO, you should multiclass combining fighter rogue and swashbuckler. Remember the duelist prestige class and the telling blow feat from PHII.

You could combine the one hand feats with the cloack combat feats in PHII, EPH and Dragon magazine compendium to add a style to your PC. Not so strong but interesting.

[celtois]

Its times likes these I wish I had the dragon or dungeon magazine :(

[Doberler]

You can buy Dungeon and Dragon Magazine PDF's straight from the Paizo Website. Also, Scribd.com has some of the issues available there for free.