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Thread: [4E] Ogre PC
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2008-11-10, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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[4E] Ogre PC
Ogre
Average Height: 8'–10’
Average Weight: 400‐600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 8 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Endurance
Powerful Race: You do not gain a feat at levels 1, 4, 8 or 10.
Instead, you get +1 Strength and +1 Constitution at levels 4 and 8.
Large: As a large creature, you have the following traits:
— You take up a 2 square x 2 square space.
— You use large weapons and armor.
— You have reach 2.
Ogre Smash: You can use ogre smash as an encounter power.
Ogre Smash................................Ogre Racial Power
You deliver a tremendous blow that knocks your
smaller foe to the ground.
Encounter ♦ Weapon
Standard Action .......... Melee weapon
Target: One Medium or smaller sized creature.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and target is knocked prone.
Special: Increase to 2[W] at level 11, and 3[W] at level 21.Last edited by AgentPaper; 2008-11-13 at 08:33 PM.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-10, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
I like the idea of the "Slow Learner" flaw, but other than that I'm not sure how 'balanced' this is
Long time reader and lurker turned poster
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2008-11-10, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Another thing I should mention, what does Large size do for you? Are there rules for being larger, or should I make those up too? Wouldn't be hard, just use the exact opposite of the small rules.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-10, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Well, I don't like the penalties and bonuses bigger than +2 - I think the way 4E handles it (i.e., everyone just gets +2 to two, or +2 to any you want for humans) makes sure everything is balanced, and changing that could upset that.
That said, here's what the (Dragonlance campaign setting's) Races of Ansalon 4E conversion has for Ogre stats. Maybe you could use that for some inspiration (and to tell you what Large does for you).
SpoilerOgre
Average Height: 8'–10’
Average Weight: 400‐600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Low‐light
Languages: Common, Giant
Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate
Large: As a large creature, you have the following traits:
— You take up a 2 square x 2 square space.
— You use large weapons and armor.
— You have reach 2.
Ogre Smash: You can use ogre smash as an encounter
power.
Ogre Smash................................Ogre Racial Power
You deliver a tremendous blow that knocks your
smaller foe to the ground.
Encounter ♦ Weapon, Reliable
Standard Action .......... Melee weapon
Target: One Medium or smaller sized creature.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and target is
pushed 1 square and knocked prone.
Last edited by RTGoodman; 2008-11-10 at 05:00 PM.
The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
Homebrew:
• "Themes of Ansalon" - A 4E Dragonlance Supplement
• Homebrew Compendium
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2008-11-10, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Yeah, one of the goals I have for this is setting the groundwork for having more than just +2 to two stats. If we can make a balanced ogre, it's not far off to make other monstrous creatures, and this could work as a good reference for what is balanced. (Assuming we get it balanced) I also like the Slow Learner idea, but I'm also afraid that loosing feats and such will mostly just accomplish making the character less interesting overall. Right now I'm trying to think of flaws that will add depth to the character, instead of removing it.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-10, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Best bet would be to take the Bugbear race (who's hardly balanced in the first place) and just rename it. There's just no fair way to balance out a +4 bonus to any ability score, especially Strength...that extra +2 is more equivalent to three feats anyway.
I apologize for drawing CockroachTeaParty as a winged centaur.
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2008-11-12, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
What if it was +2 str and +4 con? Con is less valuable than str. And I'll steal that power from the Drangonlance version, but edit it so it does 1[W] level 1-10, 2[W] level 11-20, and 3[W] level 21+. Makes it less super-powered at low levels. (knocking prone is really good) Reliable might also have to be removed. As is, that power is better than any fighter feat you can get until paragon tier or more.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-12, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Monster race thoughts... (ie, races that are far stronger/more impactful than the standard races)
1> Build them as a class you multi-class into. You auto-lose feats from the levels that multiclass classes use them.
2> Build them as a class you multi-class into a normal class out of.
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2008-11-12, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-11-12, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
Homebrew:
• "Themes of Ansalon" - A 4E Dragonlance Supplement
• Homebrew Compendium
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2008-11-12, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
I like how 4e did away with LA. I hope it doesnt make a comeback.
That being said, I like the Racial MC idea.My Homebrew
Currently DMing: Heroes on a Sea of Swords - IC - OOC - OOC II - OOC III
Many thanks to the very talented Kymme for making an Avatar of my incredibly-specific D&D character!
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2008-11-12, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Ogre
Average Height: 8'–10’
Average Weight: 400‐600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 8 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Endurance
Powerful Race: You do not gain a feat at levels 1, 4, 8 or 10.
Instead, you get +1 Strength and +1 Constitution at levels 4 and 8.
Large: As a large creature, you have the following traits:
— You take up a 2 square x 2 square space.
— You use large weapons and armor.
— You have reach 2.
Ogre Smash: You can use ogre smash as an encounter power.
Ogre Smash................................Ogre Racial Power
You deliver a tremendous blow that knocks your
smaller foe to the ground.
Encounter ♦ Weapon
Standard Action .......... Melee weapon
Target: One Medium or smaller sized creature.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and target is knocked prone.
Special: Increase to 2[W] at level 11, and 3[W] at level 21.
How does this look now? You loose 4 feats, but get 4 stats. You also have to wait a bit for those stats, so it's less huge an impact as just getting them. You're also large, though, so that should offset the lack of a feat for early levels. Also, you only get 2 feats before paragon, not nearly enough to multiclass.Last edited by AgentPaper; 2008-11-13 at 08:33 PM.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-13, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
So, any idea if this is balanced or not? Seems like it is to me, but I'm not sure. Should I have -2 to int and/or wis? That doesn't seem necessary anymore, but who knows. If anything, it seems like I should remove one of the lost feats, probably the first one. Having a bonus to str and con, which are in the same defense block, doesn't seem worth 4 feats, to me. As is, you only get a grand total of 2 feats until you hit paragon.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-13, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Personally, I would spread out the bonuses and penalties more. Dont make the, unplayable at heroic.
My Homebrew
Currently DMing: Heroes on a Sea of Swords - IC - OOC - OOC II - OOC III
Many thanks to the very talented Kymme for making an Avatar of my incredibly-specific D&D character!
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2008-11-13, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Well, it's supposed to mirror multiclassing. Some bonus at level 10 would be nice, but I don't know what it would be. You get large size at level 1, +stats at 4 and 8, but nothing at 10. Then again, the lack of a bonus there could make up for the stat bonuses being so powerful.
If someone could playtest this, that would be perfect.Last edited by AgentPaper; 2008-11-13 at 04:42 PM.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-13, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Large all by itself might be too good. Hmm.
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2008-11-13, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Yeah, I'm thinking either remove reach, or add some penalty, like to reflex and AC. Maybe -2?
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2008-11-13, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Either way you're butchering the original concept. Getting rid of reach doesn't make sense, and reach is a key benefit of being large. Giving big bonuses and penalties means that the race will be used for optimization in classes that benefit from it's benefits, while classes that need AC and reflex will stay away from it like the plague.
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Step 2: Sell the goods for a higher amount than what you pay the workers.
Step 3: ???
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Thanks to Mortugg for my current avatar, and for this steampunk version:
Spoiler
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2008-11-13, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Well, people who need Str and Con are melee classes, which are by definition close to enemies. So, they need AC. Reflex is also helpful up there.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2009-03-05, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Now that 4E has been out for a while, I want to re-visit this and see if I can make this balanced, since I doubt it is yet. I'm not sure where to go for now, but what does everyone think of letting players use this? Any specific ways this can be broken?
First off, I think I'm going to reduce the speed to 7, and might further reduce it to 6, since ogres are supposed to be slow and clumsy.
(And if this counts a thread necromancing, I apologize. Wasn't sure if I should make a new thread for this or not)Last edited by AgentPaper; 2009-03-05 at 05:37 AM.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2009-03-05, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [4E] Ogre PC
Well, having had a quick scan over the mm, I really don't see that Ogre makes an appropriate player race, frankly. The smartest of them has an int of 4, after all.
That and they lack any justifyable racial powers. They really are the archetypal big, dumb brute.
Still, if you do want to continue giving it a shot anyway, I'd say that balance is both important and over-rated. Let them be Large sized, give them some bonus to strength and con, and a smaller penalty to int and cha. I wouldn't let them have a racial power, really, because it's just not justified. if they are already getting +4 to two stats, even with -2's to a couple of others, they already have some unfair advantages. I really wouldn't take away feats though, that's just kind of punitive.
Also, Ogre's do not HAVE reach in 4th ed, that I can see, though they do universally have a speed of 8.Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2009-03-05 at 01:33 PM.