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Thread: Rules Questions

  1. - Top - End - #421
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    Yes. The card doesn't prohibit the use of Great Cleavage with other shticks. We may change this in the future, but right now we don't need another FAQ entry.
    Thanks for clearing that up.
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  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Some questions.

    1) Say that I am standing in a room with a single monster in it and some Loot. Another player plays Surprise! and makes that monster attack me. I win the battle and kill the monster. Do I get to pick up two Loot from the room as a bonus for clearing the last monster inside, or does nothing of the sort happen because it is not my turn? Is the answer any different if I was also the person who played the Surprise! card?

    2) Regarding Roy's Fearless Leader: How does the "no refusing" part work when assisting in PvP battles? Assuming both players ask for his assistance, can he choose which one to assist without flipping the Fearless Leader, or must he immediately give assistance to the first player to ask him?

    3) The following questions regard both "Creative Motivation" and "Scream Like A Little Girl":

    - They cannot be used multiple times for one player, but can they be used combined with normal assistance from the same player? If not, can they be combined with each other? For example, Roy asks Haley for help with some drooled over Loot. He still wants more help, but has no Haley-heads, so he throws a way a Loot to ask Haley for more assistance with Creative Motivation. He also uses SLaLG on her so that he could get even more assistance. Is any of this illegal?

    - When they are used, do/can they also trigger other assistance-related Shticks and events (such as Fearless Leader, Bard Song, Buff Spell, Double Cross, No I In Team, Eternal Gratitude)? In the cases of Double Cross and Eternal Gratitude, how is the Loot handled?

    - I imagine that those cards still can't allow players to assist both battling players in a PvP battle. Is this correct?

    - Regarding only SLaLG, if Roy is one of its targets and doesn't want to assist, then he doesn't need to flip Fearless Leader, since he was not really invited; the card specifies only that he may not refuse requests. Correct?

    - Regarding only Creative Motivation, if an initial offer is refused, can Roy try to make another offer to the same player by throwing another card? If a player refused an offer and changed his mind later for some reason (like seeing that Roy is doing well enough without him), can he then choose to accept the offer, against Roy's will? If not, can he do it with Roy's will, without Roy having to throw away another card?

  3. - Top - End - #423
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Apologies for any typos or bad grammar, but English isn't my native language...

    Might be a reason why I didn't understand that battle size thing clearly.

    Imagine the following situation:
    Roy goes into a room at 3rd floor. A new battle is triggered, the battle size is 3, players populate the room with 3 monsters. Unfortunately Roy is not able to kill the first monster, but the two other ones die from his mighty Greenhilt sword.
    However, on his next turn Roy decides to leave this room behind and move into a safer area on 2nd floor since he is not experienced enough to battle the remaining monster (in his opinion).
    Durkon, closely behind Roy, decides to move into the room Roy was in before. The room still contains 1 monster (the remaining one Roy wasn't able to kill).

    Now my question:
    Since the room is on 3rd floor, but there is only 1 monster remaining in the room, is this considered as a "new" battle (Durkon came in)? If yes, that would mean the room was populated with another 2 monsters up to battle size 3 again.
    Or am I totally wrong and if there is a room with monsters that weren't all killed in an earlier battle, players have to battle only the remaining monsters when moving into that room?

    2nd solution makes sense to me...how do you think about that?

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    1) Say that I am standing in a room with a single monster in it and some Loot. Another player plays Surprise! and makes that monster attack me. I win the battle and kill the monster. Do I get to pick up two Loot from the room as a bonus for clearing the last monster inside, or does nothing of the sort happen because it is not my turn? Is the answer any different if I was also the person who played the Surprise! card?
    You pick up two Loot from the room regardless of whose turn it is, if you are the one who cleared it. Whose turn it is when Surprise! was played is not relevant, nor does it matter if you played Surprise! on yourself. However, if you played Surprise! on yourself during your turn, you would not be eligible to pick up any further loot on that turn.

    - They cannot be used multiple times for one player, but can they be used combined with normal assistance from the same player? If not, can they be combined with each other? For example, Roy asks Haley for help with some drooled over Loot. He still wants more help, but has no Haley-heads, so he throws a way a Loot to ask Haley for more assistance with Creative Motivation. He also uses SLaLG on her so that he could get even more assistance. Is any of this illegal?
    As far as I know, there's no restriction on stacking those cards with other forms of assistance from a single player.

    - When they are used, do/can they also trigger other assistance-related Shticks and events (such as Fearless Leader, Bard Song, Buff Spell, Double Cross, No I In Team, Eternal Gratitude)? In the cases of Double Cross and Eternal Gratitude, how is the Loot handled?
    There's a specific rule in the FAQ that Elan's Bard Song applies only once per battle, regardless of how much assistance he provides. I assume that Buff Spell works in the same way. Double Cross would seem to apply to the sum total of all assistance you provide in a battle, since you can't assist both sides at the same time; while Eternal Gratitude seems to apply specifically to the basic request for assistance, not to the effects of any other cards. I'm not sure about the others.

    - I imagine that those cards still can't allow players to assist both battling players in a PvP battle. Is this correct?
    Correct.

    - Regarding only SLaLG, if Roy is one of its targets and doesn't want to assist, then he doesn't need to flip Fearless Leader, since he was not really invited; the card specifies only that he may not refuse requests. Correct?
    I would assume so.

    - Regarding only Creative Motivation, if an initial offer is refused, can Roy try to make another offer to the same player by throwing another card? If a player refused an offer and changed his mind later for some reason (like seeing that Roy is doing well enough without him), can he then choose to accept the offer, against Roy's will? If not, can he do it with Roy's will, without Roy having to throw away another card?
    I don't believe that assistance choices can be altered after being made, with the exception of Screw This! cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phischi View Post
    Now my question:
    Since the room is on 3rd floor, but there is only 1 monster remaining in the room, is this considered as a "new" battle (Durkon came in)? If yes, that would mean the room was populated with another 2 monsters up to battle size 3 again.
    Or am I totally wrong and if there is a room with monsters that weren't all killed in an earlier battle, players have to battle only the remaining monsters when moving into that room?

    2nd solution makes sense to me...how do you think about that?
    The room is not considered cleared until the last monster in it is defeated. Therefore, no new battle will be triggered, and no additional Battle Deck cards may be played unless a specific card states otherwise. Durkon (and any other players, including Roy) will only battle the one remaining monster until it's defeated. Should it be defeated, any player moving into the room on a subsequent turn when no other players were present would trigger a new battle.
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phischi View Post
    A new battle is triggered, the battle size is 3, players populate the room with 3 monsters. Unfortunately Roy is not able to kill the first monster, but the two other ones die from his mighty Greenhilt sword.
    Fighteer answered your main question, but I'll point out that this situation can't happen quite as you describe it. Monsters are fought in the same order that they are played into a room; you don't stack them bottom-up as they are played in and then fight the stack top-down/last-to-first. So Roy has to defeat the first monster before he has the option of battling any others. If he fails to defeat the first monster, he has to stop battling for that turn.

    What he could do, though, is defeat the first two, and leave the last one (by losing, or drawing, or choosing not to continue fighting), and then your question is meaningful. (The authoritative answer is on page 10 of the rulebook, under "Triggering a new battle".)

  6. - Top - End - #426
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Fighteer answered your main question, but I'll point out that this situation can't happen quite as you describe it. Monsters are fought in the same order that they are played into a room; you don't stack them bottom-up as they are played in and then fight the stack top-down/last-to-first. So Roy has to defeat the first monster before he has the option of battling any others. If he fails to defeat the first monster, he has to stop battling for that turn.

    What he could do, though, is defeat the first two, and leave the last one (by losing, or drawing, or choosing not to continue fighting), and then your question is meaningful. (The authoritative answer is on page 10 of the rulebook, under "Triggering a new battle".)

    Thanks for reading my post that carefully

    I knew there was something we made wrong when playing this game for the first time...possibly a reason why our "short game" with 3 people didn't come to an end this evening after playing for ~5 hours...

    I wasn't sure about the fact that if you don't defeat the top monster in a room, you must not battle the other monsters below in the stack. Now it's clear to me.

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phischi View Post
    I knew there was something we made wrong when playing this game for the first time...possibly a reason why our "short game" with 3 people didn't come to an end this evening after playing for ~5 hours...
    Heck, even after playing the game a dozen times, our group cannot get through a "short game" in 5 hours... ok, we could if we could eliminate all out-of-game distractions (goofing off, phone calls, comparisons of who's work week sucked most, etc.) and put a 2-minute time-limit on turns.... we might get done in say 4 hours 45 minutes ;)
    Last edited by Lord Greywarden; 2007-09-30 at 01:17 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #428
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    I've got some questions for you:

    1) Which one of the following can change the result of a battle after the dice are rolled: Buff Spell (assuming V is helping you), I Forgot They Could Do That (to cancel assist ability), Forgotten Bonus and Get Angry.

    2) Is it possible to use FTCDT after you lose in a battle to cancel abilities that can effect you? (like paralyze, thief and bloodlust and so on)

    3) Can Belkar perform a leaping attack through a Dark room? (assuming the dark room is between the room that contains Belkar and the room which contains the player or monster that Belkar wants to attack).

    4) The only monster in the Xykon Deck with no XP or treasure is the "Guard monster", which is one of the toughest monsters in the game. Is it supposed to be this way or it is just a misprint?

    Thanks in advence, Xardas.

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xardas View Post
    1) Which one of the following can change the result of a battle after the dice are rolled: Buff Spell (assuming V is helping you), I Forgot They Could Do That (to cancel assist ability), Forgotten Bonus and Get Angry.
    Forgotten Bonus is the only one that can be used after the die roll.

    2) Is it possible to use FTCDT after you lose in a battle to cancel abilities that can effect you? (like paralyze, thief and bloodlust and so on)
    No. IFTCDT says it can be used "When any player (including you) is battling a Monster." After the moment of the die roll, you are no longer battling the monster; you are only figuring out what the results of the battle were.

    3) Can Belkar perform a leaping attack through a Dark room? (assuming the dark room is between the room that contains Belkar and the room which contains the player or monster that Belkar wants to attack).
    A Leaping Attack into another room is a ranged attack followed by movement. The room doesn't prevent ranged attacks through it, so I would say that the attack happens normally. The movement afterward might be blocked, although if the Dark Room is empty, then it would seem that Belkar would have to stop and fight a new battle, which isn't supposed to be possible after a ranged attack. So I'm not sure.

  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    Some questions.

    1) Say that I am standing in a room with a single monster in it and some Loot. Another player plays Surprise! and makes that monster attack me. I win the battle and kill the monster. Do I get to pick up two Loot from the room as a bonus for clearing the last monster inside, or does nothing of the sort happen because it is not my turn? Is the answer any different if I was also the person who played the Surprise! card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    You pick up two Loot from the room regardless of whose turn it is, if you are the one who cleared it. Whose turn it is when Surprise! was played is not relevant, nor does it matter if you played Surprise! on yourself. However, if you played Surprise! on yourself during your turn, you would not be eligible to pick up any further loot on that turn.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    2) Regarding Roy's Fearless Leader: How does the "no refusing" part work when assisting in PvP battles? Assuming both players ask for his assistance, can he choose which one to assist without flipping the Fearless Leader, or must he immediately give assistance to the first player to ask him?
    Roy may only provide assistance to one of the players, and PVP specifies an order that the players ask for assistance. If he chooses to flip the shtick when the first player asks, then it's not available for the second player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    3) The following questions regard both "Creative Motivation" and "Scream Like A Little Girl":

    - They cannot be used multiple times for one player, but can they be used combined with normal assistance from the same player? If not, can they be combined with each other? For example, Roy asks Haley for help with some drooled over Loot. He still wants more help, but has no Haley-heads, so he throws a way a Loot to ask Haley for more assistance with Creative Motivation. He also uses SLaLG on her so that he could get even more assistance. Is any of this illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    As far as I know, there's no restriction on stacking those cards with other forms of assistance from a single player.
    Right - both can be used targeting the same player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    - When they are used, do/can they also trigger other assistance-related Shticks and events (such as Fearless Leader, Bard Song, Buff Spell, Double Cross, No I In Team, Eternal Gratitude)? In the cases of Double Cross and Eternal Gratitude, how is the Loot handled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    There's a specific rule in the FAQ that Elan's Bard Song applies only once per battle, regardless of how much assistance he provides. I assume that Buff Spell works in the same way. Double Cross would seem to apply to the sum total of all assistance you provide in a battle, since you can't assist both sides at the same time; while Eternal Gratitude seems to apply specifically to the basic request for assistance, not to the effects of any other cards. I'm not sure about the others.
    Creative Motivation and SLaLG say that the player 'assists', and the shticks you mentions say 'when assisting', so yes, they count.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    - I imagine that those cards still can't allow players to assist both battling players in a PvP battle. Is this correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    Correct.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    - Regarding only SLaLG, if Roy is one of its targets and doesn't want to assist, then he doesn't need to flip Fearless Leader, since he was not really invited; the card specifies only that he may not refuse requests. Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    I would assume so.
    SLaLG says that Roy 'may assist' the player. He doesn't need to, but if he DOES assist, then Fearless Leader comes into play, since that card says 'when assisting.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zink View Post
    - Regarding only Creative Motivation, if an initial offer is refused, can Roy try to make another offer to the same player by throwing another card? If a player refused an offer and changed his mind later for some reason (like seeing that Roy is doing well enough without him), can he then choose to accept the offer, against Roy's will? If not, can he do it with Roy's will, without Roy having to throw away another card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    I don't believe that assistance choices can be altered after being made, with the exception of Screw This! cards.
    Yes, Roy can keep scrapping his loot if he thinks that asking nicely will help with future attempts.

    A player cannot 'change his mind later', in either direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phischi
    Since the room is on 3rd floor, but there is only 1 monster remaining in the room, is this considered as a "new" battle (Durkon came in)? If yes, that would mean the room was populated with another 2 monsters up to battle size 3 again.
    Or am I totally wrong and if there is a room with monsters that weren't all killed in an earlier battle, players have to battle only the remaining monsters when moving into that room?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    The room is not considered cleared until the last monster in it is defeated. Therefore, no new battle will be triggered, and no additional Battle Deck cards may be played unless a specific card states otherwise. Durkon (and any other players, including Roy) will only battle the one remaining monster until it's defeated. Should it be defeated, any player moving into the room on a subsequent turn when no other players were present would trigger a new battle.
    Right.
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  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xardas View Post
    1) Which one of the following can change the result of a battle after the dice are rolled: Buff Spell (assuming V is helping you), I Forgot They Could Do That (to cancel assist ability), Forgotten Bonus and Get Angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Forgotten Bonus is the only one that can be used after the die roll.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xardas View Post
    2) Is it possible to use FTCDT after you lose in a battle to cancel abilities that can effect you? (like paralyze, thief and bloodlust and so on)

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    No. IFTCDT says it can be used "When any player (including you) is battling a Monster." After the moment of the die roll, you are no longer battling the monster; you are only figuring out what the results of the battle were.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xardas View Post
    3) Can Belkar perform a leaping attack through a Dark room? (assuming the dark room is between the room that contains Belkar and the room which contains the player or monster that Belkar wants to attack).

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    A Leaping Attack into another room is a ranged attack followed by movement. The room doesn't prevent ranged attacks through it, so I would say that the attack happens normally. The movement afterward might be blocked, although if the Dark Room is empty, then it would seem that Belkar would have to stop and fight a new battle, which isn't supposed to be possible after a ranged attack. So I'm not sure.
    The Dark Room has no effect on this discussion. The Dark Room doesn't say it blocks LoS (so Belkar can attack through it) and the Leaping Attack shtick doesn't say that Belkar moves through all of the intervening rooms, but rather that you are moved into the target room.
    Owner of APE Games.

  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    Roy may only provide assistance to one of the players, and PVP specifies an order that the players ask for assistance.
    The order is specified only for assistance from NPCs. Other players "are welcome to hear offers from both players, but can only accept one."

    In a PvM battle, Roy can take some time to think about whether to give assistance or flip Fearless Leader. So in a PvP battle, I'd guess that, once the first request for assistance comes in, he can also wait a while, to see if the other player also requests his assistance. If he gets requests from both players, then he can choose which to assist, and since he then becomes ineligible to assist the other, he doesn't have to flip Fearless Leader to turn them down. Correct?

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Question about fireballing, sorry if this has been asked before, but it is a big list to look through by this point.

    The rules (and posts I have seen) seem to say that monster abilities appy to all monsters on the stack, but "enchanted" only applies to that one monster right?

    Also, can you choose which monsters are "targets" if the stack is larger than the fireball can hit? Or if you hit two do you always just hit the first two (skipping over any monsters that have "enchanted"). (for example, can you snipe the roaches at the bottom of the stack).

    Also, do you have to overcome the defense score of the toughest monster in the stack even if they aren't one of the targets?

  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobTheConquerer View Post
    sorry if this has been asked before, but it is a big list to look through by this point.
    Yes, but in your case, all the answers are on page 18 of the rulebook.

    The rules (and posts I have seen) seem to say that monster abilities appy to all monsters on the stack, but "enchanted" only applies to that one monster right?
    Right - immunity from certain kinds of attacks, as well as Attack/Defense/Range modifications, are applied to each monster individually. Enchanted in particular is used in the example on page 18.

    Also, can you choose which monsters are "targets" if the stack is larger than the fireball can hit?
    No. Page 18, bottom of the first column: "When a certain number is indicated, start with the top of the Battle STack and count downwards to find which Monsters are to be battled."

    Or if you hit two do you always just hit the first two (skipping over any monsters that have "enchanted").
    Right, except you don't skip Enchanted (or otherwise immune) monsters when figuring out which monsters to battle and what Attack/Defense number you need to beat. You only skip them when applying the results of the battle if you win (i.e., removing the monsters you defeated). Monsters with an applicable kind of immunity will always survive the attack, but they still count as one of the participating monsters.

    Also, do you have to overcome the defense score of the toughest monster in the stack even if they aren't one of the targets?
    No, just the toughest monster targeted.

  15. - Top - End - #435
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    For shticks that have special rules for unflipping (for example, Belkar's Doesn't Play Well With Others), if they get flipped without being used (for example, by Party Leader Veto), can they then be unflipped by resting/returning to the dungeon entrance/A Good Laugh/etc., or do their special unflipping rules still apply?

    Say Roy wins a battle using the Greenhilt Sword, and then someone plays a Broken Weapon on him. But now Roy has 3 Xs, which he cashes in for a new shtick - which turns out to be another copy of the Greenhilt Sword. Is this new copy usable without returning to the dungeon entrance? I'm guessing it shouldn't be, but a strict reading of the wording of Broken Weapon would seem to allow it - it doesn't say newly drawn copies would start out flipped.

    I'm down to my last wound before I have to flee the dungeon. I trigger a new battle, and I suspect I'm going to lose. Can I take advantage of Cure Assorted Wounds after triggering the battle, but before I roll the die? How about after I spring a trap, but before I make my Evade roll? For a multi-target trap, can Belkar wait for someone else to fail their Evade roll, then heal himself with Schadenfreude before trying his roll?

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    For shticks that have special rules for unflipping (for example, Belkar's Doesn't Play Well With Others), if they get flipped without being used (for example, by Party Leader Veto), can they then be unflipped by resting/returning to the dungeon entrance/A Good Laugh/etc., or do their special unflipping rules still apply?
    im sure we can all agree that flipped or unflipped a DPWWO acting as an "XP token" is unavailable to be used as a shtick again until it is properly returned to shtick row as per card text. i figure that the spirit of the game would suggest that all flipped shticks not otherwise occupied by rules (ie, waiting to be used as an X) allow it to be unflipped after rest.

    Say Roy wins a battle using the Greenhilt Sword, and then someone plays a Broken Weapon on him. But now Roy has 3 Xs, which he cashes in for a new shtick - which turns out to be another copy of the Greenhilt Sword. Is this new copy usable without returning to the dungeon entrance? I'm guessing it shouldn't be, but a strict reading of the wording of Broken Weapon would seem to allow it - it doesn't say newly drawn copies would start out flipped.
    sounds like you put the new sword on top of the Broken that's on top of the old sword(s). you can use it but it's not boosted like you'd like it.

    I'm down to my last wound before I have to flee the dungeon. I trigger a new battle, and I suspect I'm going to lose. Can I take advantage of Cure Assorted Wounds after triggering the battle, but before I roll the die? How about after I spring a trap, but before I make my Evade roll? For a multi-target trap, can Belkar wait for someone else to fail their Evade roll, then heal himself with Schadenfreude before trying his roll?
    uhm i dont actually have the rules infront of me, oddly enough, but the CAW doesnt give a time to be used and Schad only requires someone else take a wound. if you've got a rules nazi available you might be making your rolls in a clockwise manner and have to put up with that. for everyone else, the spirit of Belkar suggests that you just let everyone else get caught up in the game mechanic and grab the dice before you. it's not your fault if they're in a hurry.

    ...okay now for me:

    i've not seen this before in the other skimmed Fireball questions and i was a little borred as V the other day.... Fireball does not say no pvp but it does not give a pvp wound. if V attacked Roy with this and won his rolls (or Roy was out of defensive range) am i right in saying he would have won a pvp battle and thus be entitled to loot? or is it "no wound, no win" and a draw?

    assume the above example but add two monsters in the room with Roy. do the monsters use Roy's roll as defense? OR do Roy and the two monsters share Range and use the highest defense (monsters or Roy's roll)?

    and, has anyone else wondered if the Half-Orc adventurer should also be concidered Human support too?

  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I have a question about Roy's Master of Battle Administration

    Skimmed the thread, didn't see this asked/answered.

    The 2nd part of it says "You gain +2 attack and +2 Defense when fighting monsters that have either the Leader or Duel ability."

    If you're fighting a monster with both Leader and Duel do you get 2 bonuses, effective getting a +4 bonus vs. that monster? Or do you just get a single +2 bonus even if they have both abilities?

    Thanks in advance.

    -Zem

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    I don't think it stacks
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  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zembar View Post
    I have a question about Roy's Master of Battle Administration
    -Zem
    are there any mobs with both Leader and Duel? anyway, card reads "when fighting Monsters that have either the Leader or Duel ability." sounds more like the bonus is triggered only once or it would have been worded more clearly i think.

    or maybe that's all that fit on the card. ...i wonder sometimes if maybe another cool ability might be in order for a card but they ran out of room for neat, readable text ;)

  20. - Top - End - #440
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumtummy View Post
    are there any mobs with both Leader and Duel? anyway, card reads "when fighting Monsters that have either the Leader or Duel ability." sounds more like the bonus is triggered only once or it would have been worded more clearly i think.

    or maybe that's all that fit on the card. ...i wonder sometimes if maybe another cool ability might be in order for a card but they ran out of room for neat, readable text ;)
    Well, a quick scan of the monsters showed me there is one with both Leader and Duel. Samantha, the sorceress.

    I do agree that the way its written sounds like it only gives a bonus once, but I know my group. This will probably be a point of "discussion" and wanted to go into this prepared in case it comes up.

    Thanks again

    -Zem

  21. - Top - End - #441
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Say Roy wins a battle using the Greenhilt Sword, and then someone plays a Broken Weapon on him. But now Roy has 3 Xs, which he cashes in for a new shtick - which turns out to be another copy of the Greenhilt Sword. Is this new copy usable without returning to the dungeon entrance? I'm guessing it shouldn't be, but a strict reading of the wording of Broken Weapon would seem to allow it - it doesn't say newly drawn copies would start out flipped.
    Only one copy of the Greenhilt Sword would be flipped by Broken Weapon; if Roy had multiple copies in play, he should still be able to use them; he simply loses any Boost effect he would get from the one that's flipped.
    Proud, small, slightly stinky member of the fan club.

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  22. - Top - End - #442
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumtummy View Post
    im sure we can all agree that flipped or unflipped a DPWWO acting as an "XP token"
    It can't be an X when it's unflipped. The card specifies that it flips when it becomes an X.

    i figure that the spirit of the game would suggest that all flipped shticks not otherwise occupied by rules (ie, waiting to be used as an X) allow it to be unflipped after rest.
    That's my guess as well, but I'm hoping to get the official word from the Giant or apegamer (likewise for my other questions).

    if you've got a rules nazi available you might be making your rolls in a clockwise manner and have to put up with that.
    I'm as much of a rules lawyer as anyone. But the rules don't specify what order evade rolls are made in, nor whether all the wounds resulting from a single battle or trap take place effectively simultaneously. I would lean toward making them effectively simultaneous, meaning that no matter what order the rolls are made in, Belkar can't use Schadenfreude in between rolls for the same trap to save himself from losing his last wound, but again, I'm looking for the official word.
    Last edited by prj; 2007-12-20 at 05:50 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #443
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighteer View Post
    Only one copy of the Greenhilt Sword would be flipped by Broken Weapon
    Nope. Broken Weapon explicitly says that all copies are flipped.

  24. - Top - End - #444
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumtummy View Post
    Fireball does not say no pvp
    But the rulebook does. Page 18: "Area Effect Shticks cannot be used as a Battle Shtick in a player vs. player battle."

    assume the above example but add two monsters in the room with Roy. do the monsters use Roy's roll as defense?
    You can never battle against monsters and players at the same time. You can target a player with a non-AE shtick (which therefore does not target any other players or monsters), or you can target the monster stack, but not any players in the same room, using an AE shtick.

    and, has anyone else wondered if the Half-Orc adventurer should also be concidered Human support too?
    I'd say no - some monsters do have multiple support icons at the top of the card, so if Half-Orc Adventurer were meant to support human-supported monsters, he would have had a human icon there, and he doesn't. Anyway, the card doesn't say what the other half is. Also anyway, there are no monsters that are supported by humans. Bandits, yes, but not humans.

  25. - Top - End - #445
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    It can't be an X when it's unflipped. The card specifies that it flips when it becomes an X.
    card says it's an X till it's used as an X as far as i'm concerned. but, i agree that if the FAQ says differently i'll be playing differently. same for the traps / schad.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Nope. Broken Weapon explicitly says that all copies are flipped.
    yep i agree. all copies of sthick currently present in play when the card drops are required to be flipped.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    But the rulebook does. Page 18: "Area Effect Shticks cannot be used as a Battle Shtick in a player vs. player battle."
    yeah, got the rules back: 4th bullet point on page 18. aww, that's just too bad. i hope an expansion allows for limited use with AE. perhaps allow the the same shtick used on the monster battle (if succeeds) to optionally apply also in one (or more?) pvp battle (rolls and loot-for-support bonus not carrying over from monster battle) before flipping it. if for no other reason than that the other player is in the same room as the monsters you're ranged attacking on your turn because he had just then been engaged with those same monsters and remains close to them.

    i didnt have access to the rules when i posed the dumb question. just a little frustrated. my games have shown fireball to be situational, risky and expensive: someone nearby has to fail their battle (if it's you, waste a turn walking to a safe square or eat a wound) and then you still want to be out of it's retaliation range but too far and you won't see any loot (instead of just meager loot). and it flips. i can appreciate the flip and limit of top two monsters (and subsequent boosts) but that doesnt stop V from feeling like a slow, oppertunistic Roy afflicted with -4 defense (rest) alot. to me. it hasn't stopped me from playing V in a random deal but i went looking for a bit of spice. ;)

  26. - Top - End - #446
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    We've played the game a few times, and have come across a few questions. Here are the ones I remember so far. Thanks in advance.

    This isn't technically a rules question, but it is somewhat related: The online FAQ states it was last updated 2/13/07. The printed one in my box states it was last edited 5/10/2007. How / why is it that the printed is newer than the online?

    Suppose that Roy is assisting Belkar and is using his Fearless Leader shtick. Belkar only has one wound left, and loses the battle. Belkar moves his wound marker down to his last wound, and thus starts to Flee. However Roy's shtick allows him to heal 1 wound at the end of battle. If Roy chooses to heal Belkar's wound, is Belkar still fleeing? Would Belkar even have begun moving towards the entrance and dropping loot?

    If a player is Fleeing the Dungeon and receives healing before reaching the entrance, what happens? Answer found, players can't be healed while fleeing.

    You kill the last monster in the room, and there's a big pile of loot there. Having killed the last monster, you draw two loots, and end your turn. On your next turn, you do not move at all. You are still the one who killed the last monster in this room. Can you draw two loots again?

    Is a "battle" the fighting of 1 monster card in a room, or of all the monster cards in a room. Or more specifically, how long does assistance from other players last once you offer them Loot they Drool Over? For one monster card, or for all the monster cards in a room?

    Regarding Haley's "Come to Me, My Pretties" shtick: First line states "Whenever you take Loot cards from a room that has no Monsters in it, you may take one additional Loot." 1st, is it possible to take Loot when there ARE Monsters in a room? 2nd) Does this allow Haley to draw Loot from the deck if there's no extra Loot in the room? Also, at what point is "has no Monsters" measured? If Haley enters a room that has Loot but no Monsters, there are no Monsters in it at that point. However, that would trigger a new battle, and there are now Monsters. If Haley defeats this Monsters, there are once again no Monsters in the room.

    Some cards say to flip any shtick. For example, Roy's Party Leader Veto. Does this mean you can flip any flippable shtick, or literally any shtick?

    If a boosted shtick gets flipped, do all the boosting cards get flipped as well? For example, if Durkon has two Cure Assorted Wounds shtick cards in play, and Roy is only down 1 wound, could Durkon flip only one of the shtick cards? Or, same situation for Durkon, but now Haley and V are each one wound away from Fleeing. Could Durkon heal one wound on each of them? Answer found. Flipping example in rule book.
    Last edited by TeeBee3; 2007-12-28 at 10:35 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #447
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeBee3 View Post
    Suppose that Roy is assisting Belkar and is using his Fearless Leader shtick. Belkar only has one wound left, and loses the battle. Belkar moves his wound marker down to his last wound, and thus starts to Flee. However Roy's shtick allows him to heal 1 wound at the end of battle. If Roy chooses to heal Belkar's wound, is Belkar still fleeing?
    I don't think Fearless Leader can be used to heal other players' wounds. Benefits that can be applied to other players explicitly say so.

    But regardless, Belkar would be fleeing since he lost all his wounds, which means he definitely can't be healed now.

    You kill the last monster in the room, and there's a big pile of loot there. Having killed the last monster, you draw two loots, and end your turn. On your next turn, you do not move at all. You are still the one who killed the last monster in this room. Can you draw two loots again?
    A strict reading of the wording in the rulebook would seem to allow it, but I don't think that's the intent. I think you're only supposed to get the extra loot on the same turn when you defeated the last monster.

    Is a "battle" the fighting of 1 monster card in a room, or of all the monster cards in a room. Or more specifically, how long does assistance from other players last once you offer them Loot they Drool Over? For one monster card, or for all the monster cards in a room?
    Usually for only one monster. It could be for multiple monsters, but only if you're using an Area Effect shtick to battle multiple monsters simultaneously. Otherwise, each monster is a separate battle.

    1st, is it possible to take Loot when there ARE Monsters in a room?
    Yes, with Haley's "Swipe!" shtick.

    2nd) Does this (Come To Me, My Pretties) allow Haley to draw Loot from the deck if there's no extra Loot in the room?
    No. This is the same as with any other character - there might be loot in the room when you move into it, but if the supply runs out, you don't draw from the deck just because you would have been entitled to loot if there were any left.

    Also, at what point is "has no Monsters" measured?
    At the point when you take the loot. It's "Whenever you take Loot cards from a room that has no Monsters in it" - not "a room that had no Monsters in it at the time when you entered it", nor "a room that has never had any Monsters in it since you entered it", nor anything else.

    If Haley enters a room that has Loot but no Monsters, there are no Monsters in it at that point. However, that would trigger a new battle, and there are now Monsters. If Haley defeats this Monsters, there are once again no Monsters in the room.
    Right. Haley can take 3 loots in that case - 2 for defeating the last monster in the room, plus 1 from the shtick.

    Some cards say to flip any shtick. For example, Roy's Party Leader Veto. Does this mean you can flip any flippable shtick, or literally any shtick?
    It doesn't specify any restriction as to which shticks it can be used on, so you can indeed use it to flip shticks that don't flip on their own. (Likewise for the "Dun Dun Dun" Screw This card.) But note the FAQ entry about PLV: it's usable only at the beginning of Roy's turn. (Likewise for Haley's Second In Command.)

  28. - Top - End - #448
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Dec 2007
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeBee3 View Post
    You kill the last monster in the room, and there's a big pile of loot there. Having killed the last monster, you draw two loots, and end your turn. On your next turn, you do not move at all. You are still the one who killed the last monster in this room. Can you draw two loots again?
    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    A strict reading of the wording in the rulebook would seem to allow it, but I don't think that's the intent. I think you're only supposed to get the extra loot on the same turn when you defeated the last monster.
    you have "killed the last monster" durring the turn in which you have killed the last monster. for turns thereafter, remember that when you rest you are allowed to pick up (up to) two loots from the room.
    - page 20: Resting, Page 24: How Much Loot Can Be Picked Up, Page 25: Picking Up Loot (Example)

    Also, at what point is "has no Monsters" measured?
    At the point when you take the loot.
    you can loot at beginning or end of turn. if you move into a room and a monster shows up you are in the middle of your turn, not beginning or end.
    - Page 8: Sidebar
    Last edited by Rumtummy; 2007-12-28 at 11:49 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #449
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Regarding Elan's "Poorly-Planned Illusion" shtick: "You may move each monster defeated..." Does this mean that Elan can save the monster(s) toward shtick, OR move them to another room?

  30. - Top - End - #450
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Greater Toronto Area, Ontario,

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeBee3 View Post
    Regarding Elan's "Poorly-Planned Illusion" shtick: "You may move each monster defeated..." Does this mean that Elan can save the monster(s) toward shtick, OR move them to another room?
    Monsters only get saved and drop loot when they're killed - usually by a battle schtick whose victory (flag) text says "Foe loses 1 Wound" or something similar to that. Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion shtick does deal defeated foes any wounds, it just moves them into another room. So moving them is his only choice.

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