Rules Questions

[Rumtummy]

Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion shtick doesn't deal defeated foes any wounds, it just moves them into another room. So moving them is his only choice.

althought i thought i should add that i'm pretty sure it was decided that if you were fighting the monsters and range 0 and there was already loot in the room then by succeeding with PPI you "defeated the last monster in the room" and could pick up two loots instead of one.

[spawn_I]

New player on the playground...

We started to play and questions about the rules come all the time... I am reading the rules and try to make them [the other players] understand how things work but in some cases I couldn't find an answer

question #1 : Haley was resting in one room. Roy enters room and attacks Haley. Both players get support from others, Haley has a -4 in Defence. The question is: Can Haley use a shtick card for her Defence? Or not because she was resting?

question #2 : Some monsters got Support:Horde. As Horde counts what? Every other monster on the same floor?

question #3 : I play Roy. I begin my movement in a room with a Dragon. I must attack. But I got no ranged attack and Dragon is Flying with Range 6. What does it happen? If I got range < 6 but no 0 can I attack it?


Sorta noobish questions but we start our adventure from lvl1. waiting for a response...

p.s. excuse me if I wrote anything wrong... English, not my native language, have't practice them for years.

[prj]

Haley was resting in one room. Roy enters room and attacks Haley. Both players get support from others, Haley has a -4 in Defence. The question is: Can Haley use a shtick card for her Defence?

Yes. There is no prohibition against using shticks in that case.

question #2 : Some monsters got Support:Horde. As Horde counts what? Every other monster on the same floor?

For all types of support (including Horde), a monster is supported by any monsters on the same floor that match the first monster's support type. (This is specified in the green box on page 31 of the rulebook.)

In the case of Horde, if someone plays a monster that is Horde-supported by Undead monsters, then the battle size increases by 1 for every Undead monster on the same floor - and while players are adding monsters to the battle to reach the battle size, if any more Undead monsters are added, the battle size goes up again.

question #3 : I play Roy. I begin my movement in a room with a Dragon. I must attack. But I got no ranged attack and Dragon is Flying with Range 6. What does it happen? If I got range < 6 but no 0 can I attack it?

The dragon's range is irrelevant in this case. "Flying" only means that you cannot use a Range 0 shtick. Anything more than 0 is ok if you are attacking from the same room.

If you are attacking from a different room, then you can ignore the Flying ability - you just need to have enough range to reach that room.

[spawn_I]

#1 Ok, we played that part wrong... someone will kill me for that

#3 Wrong, too. So Belkar with Leaping Attack can attack the Dragon eh? And from another room we don't count range as 1 room and 6 from the dragon = 7? Haley with Ranged Attack 4 can Attack from the room next to the one that the Dragon is?

#2 You mean that Horde = Undead or I don't get the point?

Thanks for your answers, hope not to be disturbing...

[prj]

So Belkar with Leaping Attack can attack the Dragon eh?

Yes.

And from another room we don't count range as 1 room and 6 from the dragon = 7? Haley with Ranged Attack 4 can Attack from the room next to the one that the Dragon is?

Yes, she can. The distance to the dragon is 1, and that's what matters. The dragon's range number never determines whether you can attack it. It only determines whether the dragon can wound you if you attack and lose.

For example, Vaarsuvius with a fully-boosted Lightning Bolt has a range of 7. So V can attack from 7 rooms away. If V loses, there's no wound, because the dragon doesn't have enough range to reach V. (Rulebook page 12, second bullet under "Ranged Defense".)

#2 You mean that Horde = Undead or I don't get the point?

Maybe I don't understad your original question. Can you rephrase it?

[spawn_I]

ok, got the Ranged Attack part... thanks

now for #2 I'll try to explain [note: I don't have the cards in front of me]

see page 31 of the Rules... Horde Support Ability.

If I play a monster with the Horde Support Ability [the card doesn't say anyhting about battle size] but in the same floor there are other monsters that can support this one [Goblin Necromancer as if in the example given and 3 misc. goblins in other rooms] then the battle size goes +3?

[prj]

If I play a monster with the Horde Support Ability [the card doesn't say anyhting about battle size] but in the same floor there are other monsters that can support this one [Goblin Necromancer as if in the example given and 3 misc. goblins in other rooms] then the battle size goes +3?

First I'll answer the question you didn't ask: Goblin Necromancer is a goblin himself, but it is not supported by goblins. It is supported by undead. The icon at the top left corner of the card shows the monster's own type, but the icon next to "Support:" shows the type of monster that supports this one. They are often the same, but they can be different.

Now to answer the question you did ask: if there are some supporting monsters already on the same floor, then yes, they do contribute their support. So if there are 3 undead monsters already on the floor when someone plays a Goblin Necromancer, then they do increase the battle size by 3 immediately.

[Harlequin_1998]

I have a question about Outsmart and Area Effect (specifically Fireball). Let's say is blasting a stack of 3 monsters with a boosted fireball and the third monster has the Outsmart ability. 's shticks are shuffled and one of the Fireballs is (randomly) selected and flipped. Now, the Fireball can only affect the top two monster, so what happens? Does play continue, leaving the Fireball flipped but only affecting the top two monsters? Is the third monster affected anyway? Does the paradox cause a rift in the very fabric of space-time, allowing a horde of horrid shapeless monsters to flood in and run amuck?

[prj]

Let's say is blasting a stack of 3 monsters with a boosted fireball and the third monster has the Outsmart ability. 's shticks are shuffled and one of the Fireballs is (randomly) selected and flipped. Now, the Fireball can only affect the top two monster, so what happens?

Good question. This post is the closest I can find to an official precedent. The rule seems to be "if you have a way to continue battling, you have to do it, without modifying any of the already-established battle conditions unless you are forced to." So I'd say you still battle, and you still use the same Battle Shtick if you have any unflipped copies left (otherwise you have to choose another), but you use it in its less-boosted state - so in this case, you're now only battling the top two monsters (which might be a good thing, as far as what you need to roll to win).

[billan]

A favorite tactic is to unequip all loot except for one lame one at the end of the turn, equip it all again at the beginning of the next turn, and then unequip all but the lame one at the end again. This is to prevent another player from taking good loot should they attack and defeat you. Is this play legal?

Are there any restrictions as to what can be traded between other players and when? Can loot be traded between players? Screw This cards? Monster cards in your Battle Hand? Saved monsters that have been defeated? Are trades made at any time or just on your turn?

If Belkar attacks Roy who uses Logic and wins so Belkar must lose a turn. The rules say that Belkar is immediately put on his side. Can he collect a loot in the room he's in at the end of his current turn?

Thanks.

[prj]

A favorite tactic is to unequip all loot except for one lame one at the end of the turn, equip it all again at the beginning of the next turn, and then unequip all but the lame one at the end again.

Legal, if perhaps a bit underhanded, according to
apegamer and the Giant.

Are there any restrictions as to what can be traded between other players and when? Can loot be traded between players?

Loot is given in exchange for assistance, or for healing from Durkon, or other situations that call for it. But loot is not given in exchange for other loot.

Screw This cards? Monster cards in your Battle Hand? Saved monsters that have been defeated?

No. The rules say what you can do with those cards, and trading isn't one of the options given.

If Belkar attacks Roy who uses Logic and wins so Belkar must lose a turn. The rules say that Belkar is immediately put on his side. Can he collect a loot in the room he's in at the end of his current turn?

No, see page 20 of the rulebook, under "Missing a Turn": "When something causes you to miss a turn, place your Character Move Token on its side in the room immediately. You are now missing a turn." So losing a turn is really more like "lose one and a half turns".

[spawn_I]

new question.

I don't have the game in front of me so I'll try to explain as best as I can...

I play Roy. And I get to fight with Xykon... I use Charge so I attack instead of defend. Then I use Greenhilt Sword and both boosts. That's +6 Attack [If I remember correctly]. I ask for assistance from others players and I get it. Then one of my shtick cards [I think Blood Oath of Vengeance] says that I boost every shtick card. So... I boost the Greenhilt Sword one more time [+8] or I boost and the three copies [+12]?

hope you get what I mean...

[prj]

Then one of my shtick cards [I think Blood Oath of Vengeance] says that I boost every shtick card. So... I boost the Greenhilt Sword one more time [+8] or I boost and the three copies [+12]?

The Blood Oath gives you only one extra boost to the Greenhilt Sword, not three. When it says that it boosts all your other shticks, that means that it also boosts Great Cleavage, Logic, Bag of Tricks, etc. (Once each.) But the boost to the Greenhilt Sword is the only one that will matter anyway, in this case.

If you had already flipped Charge!, and if you weren't confident about defending against Xykon, then you could use the Plate Mail and Boots (boosted by the Blood Oath), and then attack on your next turn, with the Blood Oath now boosting the Greenhilt Sword. That's the only situation I can think of where having the Blood Oath boost other shticks would help.

[Nowell]

Ok, I played this for the first time last october at Necronomicon in FL, and bought it a week or 2 later. My gaming group has figured out pretty much every rules question, but the support thing has got me completely confused. I'm not sure how the support abilities work, and in what order they go in. For example (don't have the game, posting at work) if I started a battle size 3 battle with some demon roaches, then put say, an ogre that gains +1 wound when it's supported, then on top of that gets put a goblin that gains +2 A/D for every supporting character. Does the goblin get the support from the roaches, and once the goblin is dead, the roaches then support the ogre? Also, does the support ability only count for monsters on the battle stack in one room, or are monsters supported by all the monsters on the floor (that apply). If someone can give me a run down of how it works, that would be great!

[prj]

if I started a battle size 3 battle with some demon roaches, then put say, an ogre that gains +1 wound when it's supported, then on top of that gets put a goblin that gains +2 A/D for every supporting character.

Firstly, it sounds like you're stacking the monsters in the wrong order. The first one played stays on top; the second one goes under that; the third goes under the second. (See "Playing Monsters" on page 11 of the rulebook.) The exception is the Demon Roaches, which always go to the bottom of the stack. But any others stay in their normal order, with earlier-played ones higher in the stack, so they are battled in the same order in which they were played.

Does the goblin get the support from the roaches, and once the goblin is dead, the roaches then support the ogre?

That's right - except with the stacking in the proper order, the Ogre would be supported first, and then the Goblin.

According to the original rules as printed in the rulebook, the Roaches would support both of the other monsters at the same time. (In the case of Deadly or Assist, it would make a difference if you were battling both monsters together using an Area Effect shtick.) But the support rules were changed in the FAQ so that each supporting monster only supports the topmost monster that it could support at any one time, to prevent Horde clusters from getting ridiculously huge.

Also, does the support ability only count for monsters on the battle stack in one room, or are monsters supported by all the monsters on the floor (that apply).

All on the same floor, for as long as they remain alive and on that floor.

[Nowell]

That makes more sense. So basically say I have a stack with 2 goblins that are supported by goblins for +2 A/D, and then a normal goblin under them. The top goblin would have +4 A/D, and the next goblin would have +2 A/D? And the part about monsters only being able to support one monster at a time is basically only to keep horde under control (since I don't see any other way it would matter).

also I saw a question earlier in here and made me wonder. when starting your movement, and there is a monster in your room (say, you hid from that monster last turn) are you required to fight the monster? Or can you move out of that room. also, if you are moving through a room with a monster, you don't have to fight it unless you end your movement there, right?

[prj]

So basically say I have a stack with 2 goblins that are supported by goblins for +2 A/D, and then a normal goblin under them. The top goblin would have +4 A/D, and the next goblin would have +2 A/D?

Right.

And the part about monsters only being able to support one monster at a time is basically only to keep horde under control (since I don't see any other way it would matter).

It would matter if you attack multiple monsters at once with an Area Effect shtick. But the motivation for the change was Horde, yes.

when starting your movement, and there is a monster in your room (say, you hid from that monster last turn) are you required to fight the monster?

No, you can run away in search of a more favorable fight (or no fight at all) in another room.

also, if you are moving through a room with a monster, you don't have to fight it unless you end your movement there, right?

Right. Unless someone plays a Failed Spot Check on you.

[Nowell]

And one last one. Monsters on the stack, can only be supported by monsters beneath them? So in that goblin scenario, that top goblin wouldn't support the goblin under it (if I were using an area of effect spell). Basically saying, whatever is on top of the stack can only be supported by things under it.

[prj]

Monsters on the stack, can only be supported by monsters beneath them?

No, a higher/earlier monster can support a lower/later one. That can make a difference for Area Effect, as you said, and also Horde.

[Nowell]

Ok, so just let me see if I understand. Say I have a battle size 3. The top monster is a goblin with horde, supported by goblins. The second is the same monster, and the third is a goblin that gets +2 A/D for each goblin. I'd play the first one, then the second one would support the top one, and the top would support the second one (adding +2 to battle size). 2 forgettable goblins are played next. They support the horde (once each) to give +2 to the battle size. After that, some undead/kobolds or something are played that don't support anything. Making the total battle size a 7. I kill the first goblin with horde, can continue to kill the second. I'm now fighting the goblin that gets +2 A/D for each supporting goblin. But since the forgettable goblins supported the horde goblins earlier, do they now support the +2 A/D goblin? Or do you choose what creature is supporting what creature when they are played?

[prj]

But since the forgettable goblins supported the horde goblins earlier, do they now support the +2 A/D goblin?

Yes. At any one time, they support the topmost Goblin-supportable monster.

[Nowell]

Alrighty. Think I understand it. But the goblins can only support 1 monster at a time, so if they support the horde, they don't support the +2 A/D in the case of an AoE attack? But they do support the topmost goblin later in the battle.

[prj]

But the goblins can only support 1 monster at a time, so if they support the horde, they don't support the +2 A/D in the case of an AoE attack?

Right.

But they do support the topmost goblin later in the battle.

If you battle them one at a time (no Area Effect), so that the Assisted goblin survives longer than the ones on top of it and becomes the topmost monster remaining, then yes.

[Nowell]

I think I get it. and horde is only effected at the beginning of the battle. so say, 3 goblins support the horde, and I kill the top monster, those 3 goblins now support the +2 A/D goblin that's now on top of the stack? just those 3 that supported the horde first round can't support the +2 A/D in the case of an AOE attack

[prj]

Right, you got it.

[Nowell]

Hooray! Haha Thanks for all the help!

[megamuphen]

Hello!

If I am standing in The Hall of Mysterious Runes (which adds +2 attack and +2 defense when using a magic shtick in the room) and making a ranged attack in to the next room over with a magic shtick, do I get the bonus?

Clearly I am in the room. And clearly I am using a magic shtick. But it isn't clear if I am "using a magic shtick in this room."

Thanks!

[apegamer]

If I am standing in The Hall of Mysterious Runes (which adds +2 attack and +2 defense when using a magic shtick in the room) and making a ranged attack in to the next room over with a magic shtick, do I get the bonus?

You DO get the bonus.

Conversely (inversely?) you do NOT get the bonus if you're using a magic shtick INTO the Hall of Mysterious Runes from another room.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Q: Does the sthicks (or screw this) that flip others players card (like party leader veto) is able to flip card that usually don´t flip?
For example, can Roy flip Belkar's Twin daggers of Doom?

[apegamer]

Yes, they do.