Rules Questions

[rwald]

OK, I have not played the game, only read the rulebook online, but I have a couple of questions. I'm pretty sure I know the answers, but I figured it's better to ask, so these can be added to the FAQ if deemed appropriate.

1. If I'm not in the same square as a monster, do I care that it has flying? In particular, if I'm in the square next to it and have a range of 1, is it in range, or is it effectively one square over, one square "up"? My interpretation of flying is "if range is 0, require a ranged weapon but treat as a normal attack for all effects; otherwise, absolutely no change." I'm curious if I'm right, though.

2. If a creature has both flying and tricky, and I'm in the same square as it and shooting with a ranged weapon, does it get the +10 bonus on Defense? The rules suggest that it does not (even though it's a ranged weapon, and you're required to use a ranged weapon to hit, it's still not a ranged attack), but I figured a direct answer would be a good idea.

Edit: Maybe I was misinterpreting things...reading the FAQ, it sounds like flying basically adds +1 to range for all effects. Is this accurate?

[The Giant]

OK, I have not played the game, only read the rulebook online, but I have a couple of questions. I'm pretty sure I know the answers, but I figured it's better to ask, so these can be added to the FAQ if deemed appropriate.

1. If I'm not in the same square as a monster, do I care that it has flying? In particular, if I'm in the square next to it and have a range of 1, is it in range, or is it effectively one square over, one square "up"? My interpretation of flying is "if range is 0, require a ranged weapon but treat as a normal attack for all effects; otherwise, absolutely no change." I'm curious if I'm right, though.

Flying does not in any way affect the Range to the monster.

All Flying does is prevent players from using a Shtick that has a listed Range of 0 when fighting that monster. Since you already can't attack a monster at Range > 0 unless your shtick has a listed Range > 0, Flying status has no actual effect on ranged attacks.

2. If a creature has both flying and tricky, and I'm in the same square as it and shooting with a ranged weapon, does it get the +10 bonus on Defense? The rules suggest that it does not (even though it's a ranged weapon, and you're required to use a ranged weapon to hit, it's still not a ranged attack), but I figured a direct answer would be a good idea.

No, it does not get the +10 bonus in that case. The exact wording says that if the actual Range to the monster is greater than 0, it gains +10 Defense--it does not mention the listed Range on the shtick you are using, which is therefore not relevent. A monster with Flying and Tricky would get the effects of Tricky against attacks coming from another room, and the effects of Flying on attacks coming from the same room.

Edit: Maybe I was misinterpreting things...reading the FAQ, it sounds like flying basically adds +1 to range for all effects. Is this accurate?

No. Flying prevents the usage of shticks with a listed Range of 0, that's all. Think of it as working exactly like Impervious, which prevents use of Weapon Shticks. Only in this case, replace "Weapon Shticks" with "Shticks with a printed Range of 0".

EDIT: I went back and read the FAQ; I disagree with the response stating that Sneak Attack cannot work at Range 0 against a Flying monster. The text of Sneak Attack says that it works at Range 0, and if you are in the same room with a Monster, you have a Range of 0. Period. Whether or not the Monster has Flying is irrelevent. Flying has exactly one game effect: to prevent the use of Shticks with a listed Range of 0. Sneak Attack does not have a listed Range score of 0; it does not have a listed Range score AT ALL--because it is not a Battle Shtick. Therefore, Sneak Attack should still work against a Flying monster at Range 0 with Haley's Longbow.

The answer regarding the Leap Attack is still accurate, because Leap Attack actually changes the Range score of Twin Daggers of Doom.

[Arcade]

Here's a question I couldn't find an answer to:

In a player versus player battle,the winner gets to take an equipped loot from the other player or a random loot from your loot stash if you don't have equipped loot. After this, in the aftermath, you have to give any promised loot to anyone who helped you in the combat. Is the loot that was promised by the losing character to the assisting characters off limits, or can the winner take loot that was supposed to go to another character? If the winner does get to take loot that was supposed to go to another character, what happens then?

Same question, but for when you lose against a monster who has the theif ability.

[apegamer]

After this, in the aftermath, you have to give any promised loot to anyone who helped you in the combat.

Loot is given before the combat. You can't, in fact, give loot to someone after the combat becasue you may not have loot that they Drool Over.

[Arcade]

Loot is given before the combat. You can't, in fact, give loot to someone after the combat becasue you may not have loot that they Drool Over.

OK. That makes sense. I'm looking at part 7, "Aftermath", of the "Attacking a Monster" section between pages 14 and 15. On the last bullet it states:
"If you offered loot to any other player (active or NPC) for assistance in battle, you must now give that Loot to those players- whether you won or lost the battle."
It makes it sound like you don't give out loot until after the battle is done. But your answer works a lot better and takes care of any of these conflicts.

Thanks.

[apegamer]

"If you offered loot to any other player (active or NPC) for assistance in battle, you must now give that Loot to those players- whether you won or lost the battle."

Technically that's true. In our playing, we always give the loot immediately upon offering it, as it's just easier. There are some effects, though, that cause the loot to not be given, and so sometimes the loot needs to be given back.

[Arcade]

Technically that's true. In our playing, we always give the loot immediately upon offering it, as it's just easier. There are some effects, though, that cause the loot to not be given, and so sometimes the loot needs to be given back.

And so to really beat this horse to death, I assume that any loot you promise to someone else can't be used in the battle you are waging. For instance, Elan can't promise the "Elveniest Boots Ever" to Haley for assistance and then use them in the same fight to boost his "Hide" schtick.

[Doughboy120]

Schtick turn-in?

Do you pick a random Schtick from the pile or do you search through the deck and pick the one you want?

[Fujin]

Schtick turn-in?

Do you pick a random Schtick from the pile or do you search through the deck and pick the one you want?

If you are gaining the schtick from experience (trading in three X's from defeated monsters) you take the top three cards from the schtick deck and choose one, placing the other two at the bottom of the schtick deck.

If you gain a schtick in any other way (trading in loot with three drool factor, a room effect or Screw This! effect, etc), you must take the top schtick in the pile.

For future referance, this information is found on page 21 of the rulebook :)

[Panzar_NSidious]

Okay here is the situation from last night. Haley was in the middle of the second floor. Elan moved into a new room three rooms to the left of Haley and three monsters (first one had leadership, the second is flying) are discovered and Elan hides. Belkar moves into a room two rooms to the right of Haley and two monsters are discovered and Belkar loses his roll. Then when Haley’s turn rolled around she ranged attacked the three monsters in Elan’s room defeating them with her +4 range attack. She then attacks the two monsters in Belkar’s room defeating them as well.

So here are the questions:
Can she attack more than one monster in Elan’s stack with her range attack?
Can she attack both stacks with her range attack?
Does she need +3 or +4 to range to attack a flying creature three rooms away? .

I searched through the threads and did not find my answer to the first two. The third seems to be +4 but while I was asking . . .

[fngkestrel]

I had a question regarding fleeing as it's explained in the rulebook. The example and the official text seem to conflict.

In the text, it says that the person fleeing immediately drops loot and then immediately moves 3 spaces, even on someone else's turn.

However, in the example, Elan enters "fleeing mode", drops an item of loot, but does not move three spaces until it's his NEXT turn.

So which one is correct?

[Arcade]

So here are the questions:
Can she attack more than one monster in Elan’s stack with her range attack?
Can she attack both stacks with her range attack?
Does she need +3 or +4 to range to attack a flying creature three rooms away? .

On page 15 of the rules in section 8:
You may not continue to battle additional monsters if you make a Ranged Attack into a room; you must be in the same room as the Monsters in order to continue.

This should answer questions 1 and 2.

[rwald]

How many duplicate unique monsters are there? I know Redcloak appears twice, but how often does the "if a second unique monster is placed, the first one is discarded" rule actually get used?

[Fujin]

I had a question regarding fleeing as it's explained in the rulebook. The example and the official text seem to conflict.

In the text, it says that the person fleeing immediately drops loot and then immediately moves 3 spaces, even on someone else's turn.

However, in the example, Elan enters "fleeing mode", drops an item of loot, but does not move three spaces until it's his NEXT turn.

So which one is correct?

Unfortunately, there is no "official" rule on this. My group uses the house rule that you must flee as quickly as normal movement would allow. If it is your turn, and you have not yet moved, you drop a loot and flee, otherwise you must wait until your next turn (as it is either not your turn or you've already exhausted your movement).

[apegamer]

I have not abandoned this topic. Once we get out from under the Pre-Order Shipping Monster (Attack: 18, Defence: 18, Impervious, Enchanted, Support - Everything) I'll be back in full force.

[Uthrac]

Does she need +3 or +4 to range to attack a flying creature three rooms away? .

+3. See The Giant's post on page 5 of this forum.

[mac13eth]

I would like some clarification on a couple of screw this cards.

On the "I forgot they could do that" card being used on a Leader or Horde ability: Which monsters are removed? The last ones played or the next ones played after the leader/horde trigger?

On the Screw this cards that grant a +3 to one type of monster, can that be played AFTER a roll of the dice to cause a win to become a loss? I understand there is a +1 card that can change the result of a battle, but the +3 card doesn't say one way or the other.

Thank you, by the way, for a very fun game, I look forward to the expansions.

[qhudspeth]

Hiya, Just opened my shiny new pre-order of the OotS Game, and I seek clarification on giving Assistance.

The description of what you can do while Attacking a monster implies characters who render Assistance lose a turn. However, I can't find another mention of the consequences of rendering Assistance in the rules (be nice to have that as a heading somewhere).

So, is that so? Do characters who render Assistance lose a turn?

edit: 5:07 pm — I see now where I was confused, for the want of an appropriately placed pause. "You may ask any other player on the same floor as you who is not resting or missing a turn for assistance." When I read that, I didn't pause right, and saw "missing a turn for assistance" as meaning someone who had assisted would miss a turn. A comma between you and who, and another between turn and for would have helped. But I get it now.

Thanks,
Q

[Arcade]

The description of what you can do while Attacking a monster implies characters who render Assistance lose a turn. However, I can't find another mention of the consequences of rendering Assistance in the rules (be nice to have that as a heading somewhere).

So, is that so? Do characters who render Assistance lose a turn?
Q

No, giving assistance does not make you lose a turn. The only disadvantage of giving assistance is that you help another player, but you get loot out of it, so it's likely worth it.

[Fujin]

I would like some clarification on a couple of screw this cards.

On the "I forgot they could do that" card being used on a Leader or Horde ability: Which monsters are removed? The last ones played or the next ones played after the leader/horde trigger?

On the Screw this cards that grant a +3 to one type of monster, can that be played AFTER a roll of the dice to cause a win to become a loss? I understand there is a +1 card that can change the result of a battle, but the +3 card doesn't say one way or the other.

The "I forgot they could do that" ability causes the last monsters not to be played (it really should be played -before- the cards are revealed, if at all possible). Both of these abilities cause the battle size to increase, but do not alter the order of monsters that are played. If these abilities are ignored, then the "additional" monsters are simply never played.

As for the +3 cards, ("Arm Zombies" for example,) since they do not explicitly state that they can be played after the dice are rolled, then it is assumed they can't. As a general rule, when one card explicitly states that it can do something, assume other cards can't (unless they also state they can, obviously).

[Traveling_Angel]

I fail to see how Leap attack + Twin Daggers of Doom can't be used to attack a flying monster. If Flying doesn't matter at a range greater then 0, then how can it prevent said attack?

[Fujin]

I fail to see how Leap attack + Twin Daggers of Doom can't be used to attack a flying monster. If Flying doesn't matter at a range greater then 0, then how can it prevent said attack?

Effectively, it works like this:

Flying prevents the use of schticks with a range of 0 from being used. Twin Daggers of Doom has a range of 0. The fact it is being modified by another card doesn't matter, the printed range is 0.

Flying is meant to represent the need for a -ranged weapon- to fight the monster. Leaping Attack represents belkar's ability to leap into battle unexpectedly, but is by no stretch of the imagination is a ranged attack.

[Arcade]

Effectively, it works like this:

Flying prevents the use of schticks with a range of 0 from being used. Twin Daggers of Doom has a range of 0. The fact it is being modified by another card doesn't matter, the printed range is 0.

Flying is meant to represent the need for a -ranged weapon- to fight the monster. Leaping Attack represents belkar's ability to leap into battle unexpectedly, but is by no stretch of the imagination is a ranged attack.

That explains nothing to me ... The FAQ says Belkar can attack flying creatures in the same room as him, but not one room away. Your explanation says he can't attack any flying creatures. There's some sort of contradiction here and I just don't understand it.

[apegamer]

That explains nothing to me ... The FAQ says Belkar can attack flying creatures in the same room as him, but not one room away. Your explanation says he can't attack any flying creatures. There's some sort of contradiction here and I just don't understand it.

If you've not seen it, Rich's post on this on page 5 of this topic explains how this works. I have post-it note on my monitor to update the FAQ.

[Sothicus]

Based on Rich's comments on page 5, will the FAQ get revised? He says that he disagrees with the FAQ that Sneak Attack will not work on Flying creatures.

Flying (according to Rich) is only supposed to affect what "range" of an attack can be in order to be successful.

[apegamer]

Based on Rich's comments on page 5, will the FAQ get revised?

Yes, the FAQ will be updated accordingly.

[Johan]

Okay, we started playing our first game last night and hit a snag.

When do you draw more cards into your battle hand?

[Fujin]

Okay, we started playing our first game last night and hit a snag.

When do you draw more cards into your battle hand?

Whenever you are required to play a monster, and can't, you must discard your hand and draw a new battle hand of seven cards.

[Moebius]

Two rules questions came up in our latest game of OotS:

The rules (say you can start in a room, pick up one Loot, move, and fight in another room – and if you clear that room , you can pick up up to two more Loot. However, Haley’s “Come to Me, My Pretties” schtick says, “As always, you may pick Loot only once per turn.” Which is correct?

The second rules question is a bit trickier. I guess I’ll explain the situation first:
I’m the first one down into Xykon’s lair, and have found him. Thanks to various supporting monsters already on this level, the Battle Size starts at 12…. and keeps getting bigger as we play more monsters. Pretty soon, Xykon’s stats are into the stratosphere, because of his Support: Assist ability. But then, on one of my Battle Deck redraws (I have to play monsters into this fight too, after all), I pull “Screw this! I Forgot They Could Do That” – and play it immediately to cancel Support: Assist and bring Xykon’s Attack value down to 16. We keep playing monsters – there end up being 49 in the stack. Since they’re not Supporting him, however, I manage to kill him. Without the ‘I Forgot…’, his Attack would have been over 50 – way out of my range.

Now, I’m wondering if that was entirely legal, even though the other players let me do it. The ‘I Forgot…’ card says “When any player (including you) is battling a Monster.” Since we were still busy populating the room, was I battling Xykon yet? If I’d had to wait until the monster stack was completed, I would have had to discard the ‘I Forgot’ card before I could have used it, in order to draw more Monster cards.

[Fujin]

Two rules questions came up in our latest game of OotS:

The rules (say you can start in a room, pick up one Loot, move, and fight in another room – and if you clear that room , you can pick up up to two more Loot. However, Haley’s “Come to Me, My Pretties” schtick says, “As always, you may pick Loot only once per turn.” Which is correct?

Both. As it specifes on page 15 of the rulebook "If you defeated the last monster in the room in which you are located, you may immediately draw the top two loot from that room into your Loot Stash. This is a bonus, above and beyond any Loot you would normally pick up at the beginning or ending of your turn."

Or, in brief, the battle-loot isn't considered "loot you pick up." Its bonus :).

The second rules question is a bit trickier. I guess I’ll explain the situation first:
I’m the first one down into Xykon’s lair, and have found him. Thanks to various supporting monsters already on this level, the Battle Size starts at 12…. and keeps getting bigger as we play more monsters. Pretty soon, Xykon’s stats are into the stratosphere, because of his Support: Assist ability. But then, on one of my Battle Deck redraws (I have to play monsters into this fight too, after all), I pull “Screw this! I Forgot They Could Do That” – and play it immediately to cancel Support: Assist and bring Xykon’s Attack value down to 16. We keep playing monsters – there end up being 49 in the stack. Since they’re not Supporting him, however, I manage to kill him. Without the ‘I Forgot…’, his Attack would have been over 50 – way out of my range.

Now, I’m wondering if that was entirely legal, even though the other players let me do it. The ‘I Forgot…’ card says “When any player (including you) is battling a Monster.” Since we were still busy populating the room, was I battling Xykon yet? If I’d had to wait until the monster stack was completed, I would have had to discard the ‘I Forgot’ card before I could have used it, in order to draw more Monster cards.

Technically, thats an illegal move, but not for the reason you suspect.

"I forgot they could do that" lets you ignore an ability the monster has. Abilities are things listed in the back of the rulebook, such as Flying, Bloodlust, Leader, or Invulnerable. Support is not an ability, its a characteristic of the monster, same as its attack rating.

However, what would have been a legal play would have been to play "I forgot..." on Xykon's Horde ability, which would have immediately reduced the battle size to 5, (4th lair + Leader). Any monster beyond the 5th would be discarded, and Xykon's Attack and Defense would have been quite manageable for you :).

But yes, you can play "I forgot" during the "Play Monster Step", as its still within the combat section of the rules.

Hope that helps!