Rules Questions

[Fujin]

Ignore this. A glitch is causing certain posts at the top of new pages to disappear.

[Fujin]

Since Swipe is considered an alternative to combat, Haley would only get one loot (as described in the result text for the Swipe shtick). Swipe does not grant any of the other benefits associated with engaging in combat versus either Monsters or Players.

I disagree with this answer.

Nothing on the Swipe Schtick indicates that it is an "alternative to combat" schtick. It is a combat schtick, except its result text reads something other than "Foe takes 1 wound."

As such, I believe that Amnistar is correct in assuming that he would get 2 loot when using Swipe, since 1 loot would come from Swipe (rather than from loosing a wound as with most attack schticks), and then the additional loot which is part of any successful attack against another player.

My interpretation of the rules seems to be supported by page 17 of the rulebook, which states:

"The winning player applies the Result Text of their chosen Battle Shtick to the loser. For many Battle Shticks, this will result in 1 wound being applied to the other player. Another might cause the losing player to miss a turn or allow the winning player to draw a random Loot from the losing player's Loot Stash.

In addition, the winning player may take one equipped Loot from the losing player, of the winner's choice. This Loot is added..."

This exerpt seems to refer to this exact situation, and confirms that, indeed, two loot would be drawn. :)

[Traveling_Angel]

The rules state that now Xyclon deck cards have red X's, but mine do. Should I save them?

[Fujin]

The rules state that now Xyclon deck cards have red X's, but mine do. Should I save them?

Save them. That is a rule that was probably meant not to make the rules, seeing as the cards -were- printed with X's. Not to mention having cards with X's on them that -aren't- worth experience is counter-intuitive.

[caestepp]

I disagree with this answer.

Nothing on the Swipe Schtick indicates that it is an "alternative to combat" schtick. It is a combat schtick, except its result text reads something other than "Foe takes 1 wound."

As such, I believe that Amnistar is correct in assuming that he would get 2 loot when using Swipe, since 1 loot would come from Swipe (rather than from loosing a wound as with most attack schticks), and then the additional loot which is part of any successful attack against another player.

My interpretation of the rules seems to be supported by page 17 of the rulebook, which states:

"The winning player applies the Result Text of their chosen Battle Shtick to the loser. For many Battle Shticks, this will result in 1 wound being applied to the other player. Another might cause the losing player to miss a turn or allow the winning player to draw a random Loot from the losing player's Loot Stash.

In addition, the winning player may take one equipped Loot from the losing player, of the winner's choice. This Loot is added..."

This exerpt seems to refer to this exact situation, and confirms that, indeed, two loot would be drawn. :)

I agree with Fujin's interpretation and will modify my previous post. When I posted on this topic earlier, I was still thinking of the context where this shtick is used on monsters. I should have re-read the PVP-rules on page 17 before posting. Swipe is indeed a battle shtick and would be entitled to the benefits of winning a PVP battle.

Kudos to Fujin for catching this.

[Traveling_Angel]

I assume that multiple schticks like bard song and great cleavage don't all apply, so that 2 bard songs wouldn't grant a +4 bonus. Correct?

[apegamer]

I assume that multiple schticks like bard song and great cleavage don't all apply, so that 2 bard songs wouldn't grant a +4 bonus. Correct?

Multilple shticks provide the boost effect listed at the bottom of the shtick card. So a second Bard Song would provide an additional +1 bonus.

[Valor]

I tried searching, but it seems that nothing comes up at all (even when I search for words I see that have been posted).

Lets say we are on level 1. When Redcloak is placed into battle.

Redcloak is a Leader (Battle size +1) and when supported by Goblin's has the Horde (Battle size +1 per supporting card). So, if we start with Redcloak and the additional monster I play is a Goblin, would that further expand the battle size to 3?

[Jefepato]

Am I correct in thinking that the Outsmart example on page 31 is incorrect? Elan's Dumb As Mud shtick should make him immune to Nale's Outsmart.

[bwcMD]

I tried searching, but it seems that nothing comes up at all (even when I search for words I see that have been posted).

Lets say we are on level 1. When Redcloak is placed into battle.

Redcloak is a Leader (Battle size +1) and when supported by Goblin's has the Horde (Battle size +1 per supporting card). So, if we start with Redcloak and the additional monster I play is a Goblin, would that further expand the battle size to 3?

Correct. And if the 3rd card is a Goblin, the battle sizegrows once more. And recall that supporting cards are everything on the same floor that supports, not just what's in the room.

[Valor]

Poorly Planned Illusion

When you move monsters to an adjacent room with more than one player in the room - when does the monster attack and who does the monster attack first?

[The Giant]

One: can Haley or Roy use the Party Leader Veto to force someone to use a shtick (this came up when Haley wanted to force Elan to do some wacky hijinks, as opposed to just flipping it so he could not use it) or can you only flip a shtick so the person can't use it?

No, these shticks flip the card with no effect, denying their owner the usage of the card until they rest.

two: For Elan's bard songs, does the person get one bonus overall for the roll, or, is the bard song bonus for each individual loot card given to Elan, or is it the unlikely situation of the bard song bonus is given for each drool factor?

One bonus overall per battle roll, not one per loot card given.

The first is about Haley's "Swipe" Schtick. If you use this Schtick on a monster, and successfully swipe a loot from underneath it, can you continue to attack/defend as if you had actually killed the monster?

No. You may have won the battle, but the Monster is STILL the top Monster on the stack. The rules only allow you to battle the top Monster, requiring you to remove the previous Monster before you can battle the next one (which then becomes the new top Monster). Since Swipe doesn't move the top Monster, you can't get to the lower Monsters, and you can't battle the same Monster twice.

You can, however, defeat the top Monster with, say, Longbow, discard it, and then Swipe the second Monster.

Secondly, in a less-than-six-player game, say you're in the following situation: You're Roy, and you're on the third level. The other players are on levels one or two (ergo, the NPC PCs are on the same level as Roy). How should the "you can't give loot drooled over a player to an NPC PC" rule be handled in this situation? We played it that it went to the NPC PC, as there was no way to give it to a player (what with them being on a different level, and all).

No, that is incorrect. The rule stands no matter where the players are in relation to one another.

The purpose of the rule is not to get players to offer Loot to the PCs per se, but to prevent Player A from offering all of Player B's Loot to the NPCs, causing it to be put in the Loot discard pile and removed from play, possibly for the rest of the game if the Loot pile isn't reshuffled.

when you are playing monsters, and you play your *last* monster, but still have "screw this!" cards in your hand, do you discard those cards immediately & draw a new battle deck b/c you have no more monsters, or do you wait until you are called upon to play a monster and then draw new cards?

You wait until you are called on to play a Monster and can't. If you can play the Screw This! before then, you may.

Another question: May you make a ranged attack into a room with both monsters in players and attack the player?

Definitely.

And, if you kill all the monsters may you continue and attack the player?

With a Ranged Attack, you may never continue to battle Monsters. You may only make one Ranged Attack on your turn, and only against either a player or the top Monster in a room.

If you were in the same room, you would be required to fight the top Monster only. You can't battle a player on the same turn that you battle Monsters.

The rules state that now Xyclon deck cards have red X's, but mine do. Should I save them?

This is an error in the rules; you should be able to save them.

I assume that multiple schticks like bard song and great cleavage don't all apply, so that 2 bard songs wouldn't grant a +4 bonus. Correct?

Yes, but multiple shticks DO provide the bonus listed on that shtick under "Boost".

Lets say we are on level 1. When Redcloak is placed into battle.

Redcloak is a Leader (Battle size +1) and when supported by Goblin's has the Horde (Battle size +1 per supporting card). So, if we start with Redcloak and the additional monster I play is a Goblin, would that further expand the battle size to 3?

Yup.

Poorly-Planned Illusion

When you move monsters to an adjacent room with more than one player in the room - when does the monster attack and who does the monster attack first?

Monsters moved by Poorly-Planned Illusion do not attack any players in the room to which they move.

[The Giant]

As for Haley's swipe ability, I am then curious if a successful swipe attempt from haley against a player results in 2 loot being stolen? 1 for the swipe ability, and 1 for winning the fight?

Yes, Haley gets two Loot. Note, however, that only ONE Loot may be selected from the player's equipped Loot (the one gained as a result of winning PvP); the other Loot must be drawn at random from the player's Loot Stash.

[Arcade]

Could we get a ruling on the "fleeing" rule? Specifically, when you are dropped down to 0 wounds, are you supposed to drop an item and flee immediately (as the rule states), or wait until your next turn and then drop an item and flee (as the example states)? And if it's as the example states and you lose a PvP battle on your turn, are you supposed to flee now since it is your turn or do you wait until your next turn?

I looked through here and couldn't find an answer, but if it has been answered, please let me know and give me a pointer.

Thanks

[ref]

Player A on left dead-end of a full 8-room first level finds the stairs down, Then some players move down there and to the left. At this point, player C on the right edge of the first level uses a screw this card to find another set of stairs. Some players move down and to the right. Is this legal? If so, what is the range between the two halves of the second level? Can attacks be made through the "void" and does support work from one side to another? Additionally, if a set of stairs down to the third level is found on one of the halves, does the other one become a dead-end branch with no way down?

[TheTormented]

Q) Can you give more than one loot per battle?
A) Yes, you can give more than one loot to other players in return for assistance with a battle. You can give multiple loot to the same person or you can give one or more loot to each of several different players.

The only limitation is that in PvP battles, an assisting player can only help one of the two players in the battle. You can't assist both sides.

Assistance is only good for a single battle (ie. a single die roll). If you decide to attack the next monster in the stack you have to offer new loot in order to gain assistance.

The way the above is stated it would make me think if you had the appropriate loot you could get a massivly high bonus being able to give multiple loot to the same and/or other people. Is this the case or is there a limitation to the bonus you can get from offering loot? (Sorry if this is in the rules, I can't remember and the game belongs to a friend I don't see often.)

[apegamer]

The way the above is stated it would make me think if you had the appropriate loot you could get a massivly high bonus being able to give multiple loot to the same and/or other people. Is this the case or is there a limitation to the bonus you can get from offering loot?

If you have enough loot and choose to blow it all on one battle, then you're free to do so. You can give as many cards as you want to players. You can even give multiple cards to the same player.

However, you need to think about how much loot you're going to get back, how much XP you'll be getting, and how much you want to help other players. It's all a balancing act, really.

[The Giant]

Player A on left dead-end of a full 8-room first level finds the stairs down, Then some players move down there and to the left. At this point, player C on the right edge of the first level uses a screw this card to find another set of stairs. Some players move down and to the right. Is this legal?

Yes. Remember that there can only be 8 rooms per level, though, so it is probable that these two sub-levels will not meet in the middle, ever. On the other hand, if someone explores the middle area and there is a small enough gap, they WILL meet.

If so, what is the range between the two halves of the second level?

The range is "Not Applicable", because you cannot measure range through unexplored areas.

Can attacks be made through the "void" and does support work from one side to another?

Attacks cannot be made, but Support (and assisting in battle) both function normally.

Additionally, if a set of stairs down to the third level is found on one of the halves, does the other one become a dead-end branch with no way down?

Yes, barring another special situation.

[Ske]

A few things (7).

- The stuff you can do at the start and end of your turn, can they all be done both start and end of your turn, multiple times each? This, of course, excludes loot picking and stairs searching.

- If you fight without a Shtick against a creature with Bloodlust, will you then _always_ lose?

- If you drop down to no health and start fleeing, but is forced to miss your next turn (for example, if the fight was in the restroom), What is the procedure? My guess is, that you drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn, drop a loot, end turn, [drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn] (repeat stuff in brackets until at dungeon entrance).

- If you're in a room full of loot, can you then get 2 loot in any other way than resting (not counting shtick's like Haley's and such)? I mean, if you don't want to suffer the defense loss when resting, but still wants to miss a turn while getting two loot?

- Unique monsters.. I'm confused. I hear Redcloak is a multiple, but is he the only one (I don't want to check the stack, I want to be surprised at the things I find)? Specifically, is the rule about unique monsters leaving if they appear somewhere else very rarely used? Or is the sentence about it on page 5 actually supposed to apply to all monsters with the same name, so no two equal monsters can exist at once (yes, the sentence can be read like that)?

- Poorly planned illusion. When you move a monster into a full room (of monsters), is the moved monster(s) placed at the bottom or top?

- The Giant posted that used Turn Undead in a battle with Xykon was a good idea, even though it didn't hurt him, as it could remove all other undead and thereby weakening Xykon. In the sidebar on page 18 though, it is stated that even though monsters can't be hurt by an area attack, they still count when determining the greatest defense modifier to fight against. Was the (not so) flawless Giant wrong?

I guess that's it. I appreciate any answers, though knowing my friends, only the authorities will be listened to.

[Jacob]

Is there going to be a ruling on the fleeing rule? It seems like just about every other question gets answered, but for some reason this one hasn't been. Does your character flee immediately upon losing his/her last hit point whether it's your turn or not, flee immediately only on your turn, or always wait 'til your next turn, or what? Please respond to this even if it's just to say that it has not been decided. Thanks.

[Gamer5389]

"You're right. If Durkon uses Big Heavy Armor against a monster with Bloodlust, and wins, then the result of the shtick (which says that the battle is a draw) means that he actually loses.

In short, don't use shticks that say the battle is a draw against monsters with Bloodlust." - apegamer

There doesn't seem to be any reason that the same shouldn't apply to battling without a shtick since the outcome is the same as one with a draw result.

For the unique rule, I believe that Redcloak is the only multiple unique card. I'd guess that the rule only applies to unique monsters since it would be ok for there to be multiple Kobold Knights in a dungeon but not multiple Nales.

[The Giant]

- The stuff you can do at the start and end of your turn, can they all be done both start and end of your turn, multiple times each? This, of course, excludes loot picking and stairs searching.

Yes, excluding Loot-picking-up and stair-searching, you can do any of the others as often as you wish. Meaning you can trade in Monsters for shticks at the start of your turn, then kill three Monsters, then turn in another three at the end.

- If you fight without a Shtick against a creature with Bloodlust, will you then _always_ lose?

Yup. Sucks, eh?

- If you drop down to no health and start fleeing, but is forced to miss your next turn (for example, if the fight was in the restroom), What is the procedure? My guess is, that you drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn, drop a loot, end turn, [drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn] (repeat stuff in brackets until at dungeon entrance).

Well, the issue here isn't the missing-a-turn-while fleeing, it's the use of the Restroom. According to the rules on "Missing a Turn", when something causes you to miss a turn, you put your character on its side IMMEDIATELY. That means that when you reveal the restroom, you don't fight any Monsters in it. And only the first character to reveal the restroom misses a turn. So really, the situation you are describing cannot occur. EDIT: Whoops! Turned out I didn't know what I was talking about there, just ignore that paragraph.

Now, if you miss a turn because the Monster has Paralyze, then you are basically frozen in place. You drop the Loot, put your character on its side, and end your turn. On the next turn, you stand your character up, drop a Loot, and end your turn. On the third turn, you drop a Loot and move 3 spaces. You never move 3 spaces on a turn in which your character begins or ends on its side.

- If you're in a room full of loot, can you then get 2 loot in any other way than resting (not counting shtick's like Haley's and such)? I mean, if you don't want to suffer the defense loss when resting, but still wants to miss a turn while getting two loot?

Nope. You need to take the risk in order to grab two.

- Unique monsters.. I'm confused. I hear Redcloak is a multiple, but is he the only one (I don't want to check the stack, I want to be surprised at the things I find)? Specifically, is the rule about unique monsters leaving if they appear somewhere else very rarely used? Or is the sentence about it on page 5 actually supposed to apply to all monsters with the same name, so no two equal monsters can exist at once (yes, the sentence can be read like that)?

It is a rarely used rule. We have plans for expanding the game, which may include alternate versions of key characters like Nale, Thog, etc. Right now, Redcloak is the only Unique monster to actually have two versions.

- Poorly planned illusion. When you move a monster into a full room (of monsters), is the moved monster(s) placed at the bottom or top?

Top.

- The Giant posted that used Turn Undead in a battle with Xykon was a good idea, even though it didn't hurt him, as it could remove all other undead and thereby weakening Xykon. In the sidebar on page 18 though, it is stated that even though monsters can't be hurt by an area attack, they still count when determining the greatest defense modifier to fight against. Was the (not so) flawless Giant wrong?

No, but it's a subtle distinction. The rule says that if the Monster is targeted and has an ability that would normally exampt it from being battled with as shtick, such as Enchanted, it still counts for determining the highest Defense Value.

But Xykon does NOT have an ability that exempts him; it's the Turn Undead shtick that does the exempting when it stipulates its available targets. Thus, you can use it against any Undead under Xykon without counting his Defense Value.

In the same way, you don't count the Defense values of non-Undead when using Turn Undead, because they cannot ever be targets of that shtick. Only those Monsters that COULD be targets, but are not because of a MONSTER ability are still counted for Defense value. An Enchanted Undead, for example, would still count for highest Defense Value; a Goblin, Enchanted or otherwise, would not.

Is there going to be a ruling on the fleeing rule? It seems like just about every other question gets answered, but for some reason this one hasn't been. Does your character flee immediately upon losing his/her last hit point whether it's your turn or not, flee immediately only on your turn, or always wait 'til your next turn, or what? Please respond to this even if it's just to say that it has not been decided. Thanks.

OK, I thought this had been answered by apeagamer, so I'll look at it now.

The rules are 100% correct; the Example is slightly backwards.

To elaborate: You should drop the Loot and then flee on each turn, including the turn in which you lose your last Wound. The example correctly has Elan drop Loot immediately, but fails to have him flee. After that, it incorrectly puts the fleeing before the dropping. The intent was to have the player drop his first Loot under the Monster that beat him, so that the Monster would have to be killed in order to recover it. Both the and the example rules reflect this, but the Example then screws up the order after that.

As a rule of thumb during play, assume the rules trump the examples unless we've FAQ/errata'd something. Feel free to keep asking, though, since its the only way we'll see mistakes.

[Ske]

Thank you for the answers, Giant, though I would like some clarification on one of them (as I disagree).

- If you drop down to no health and start fleeing, but is forced to miss your next turn (for example, if the fight was in the restroom), What is the procedure? My guess is, that you drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn, drop a loot, end turn, [drop a loot, flee three rooms, end turn] (repeat stuff in brackets until at dungeon entrance).

Well, the issue here isn't the missing-a-turn-while fleeing, it's the use of the Restroom. According to the rules on "Missing a Turn", when something causes you to miss a turn, you put your character on its side IMMEDIATELY. That means that when you reveal the restroom, you don't fight any Monsters in it. And only the first character to reveal the restroom misses a turn. So really, the situation you are describing cannot occur.

Now, if you miss a turn because the Monster has Paralyze, then you are basically frozen in place. You drop the Loot, put your character on its side, and end your turn. On the next turn, you stand your character up, drop a Loot, and end your turn. On the third turn, you drop a Loot and move 3 spaces. You never move 3 spaces on a turn in which your character begins or ends on its side.

The restroom doesn't work like that. It causes you to miss a turn _after_ fighting monsters (Quote: "The first player to enter this room loses a turn - after battling any Monsters."), which is what makes it somewhat confusing. Based on your answer, I'd say it would go like this:
1 - Enter restroom, fight-lose-die, drop loot, lay character on the side.
2 - Drop loot, stand character.
3 - Drop loot (third in the same room now), move three rooms.
4 - Drop loot, move three rooms.
5 - Repeat 4 until arriving at dungeon entrance.

Your answer raises another question though. After resting, do you miss the turn in which you unflip shticks as well? Is this right:
1 - Player choses to rest before doing anything else, lays character down.
2 - Unflips shticks, heals a wound and stands character up.
3 - Player can now do whatever.
Or in a different wording, does resting cause you to do nothing else (moving or battling) for two turns? The rules aren't very clear on whether or not your turn ends after unflipping shticks.

Thanks in advance.

[The Giant]

The restroom doesn't work like that. It causes you to miss a turn _after_ fighting monsters (Quote: "The first player to enter this room loses a turn - after battling any Monsters."), which is what makes it somewhat confusing. Based on your answer, I'd say it would go like this:
1 - Enter restroom, fight-lose-die, drop loot, lay character on the side.
2 - Drop loot, stand character.
3 - Drop loot (third in the same room now), move three rooms.
4 - Drop loot, move three rooms.
5 - Repeat 4 until arriving at dungeon entrance.

Crap, I knew I should have dug through and gotten the Restroom card out and read it. In that case, yes, your sequence is correct (it's exactly the same as if the missed turn was die to Paralyze).

In the interest of not confusing anyone else, I'll strike it from my previous response.

Your answer raises another question though. After resting, do you miss the turn in which you unflip shticks as well? Is this right:
1 - Player choses to rest before doing anything else, lays character down.
2 - Unflips shticks, heals a wound and stands character up.
3 - Player can now do whatever.

Your sequence is correct, because Resting and Missing a Turn work differently. Resting a turn needs to be declared at the start of your turn, so the turn you "miss" is that one, while Missing a Turn usually happens at the end of a turn in which you did something--battled or moved or whatever.

Or in a different wording, does resting cause you to do nothing else (moving or battling) for two turns?

No, only one, as above.

The rules aren't very clear on whether or not your turn ends after unflipping shticks.

Perhaps, but the example says that Roy has to make a decision about resting again on that same turn, something he could not do if his turn was over. Also, standing up and unflipping is listed as something you do "at the start of your turn" in the beginning of the rules, not instead of your turn.

[Arcade]

I have a question regarding "Eternal Gratitude"
- When using "Eternal Gratitude", does this let you reclaim only 1 loot card from the person you offered loot to, or can you reclaim all loot you offered to them in this battle?

And since I'm asking questions, does V's Protective Spell or Durkon's Sturdy Shield prevent only 1 wound taken in an attack, or all wounds (if attacked by Belkar's boosted Twin Daggers, for instance)? I'm assuming only 1, but it wouldn't be the first time I misread a card.

PS. Thanks for clarification on the fleeing rule, Giant.

[Jonsayt]

I have a question regarding one of Roy's shticks.....I think it's the one called "It's Called Foreshadowing".....whichever one lets you look at a player's battlehand and make them discard a monster.

Can Roy use the shtick on himself?

Examples of when you would want to:
- You want to lose your monsters so you can draw a fresh battlehand quicker (for more Screw This cards);
- You have a monster in your hand e.g. and you don't want to risk having to fight him;

[apegamer]

I have a question regarding "Eternal Gratitude"
- When using "Eternal Gratitude", does this let you reclaim only 1 loot card from the person you offered loot to, or can you reclaim all loot you offered to them in this battle?

You can take back all of the loot cards that you gave that player. The sentence at the end says "...you now owe them nothing for their assistance."

And since I'm asking questions, does V's Protective Spell or Durkon's Sturdy Shield prevent only 1 wound taken in an attack, or all wounds (if attacked by Belkar's boosted Twin Daggers, for instance)? I'm assuming only 1, but it wouldn't be the first time I misread a card.

We play that the card prevents one wound. Another instance of taking more than one wound is the monsters' Deadly ability. This question is FAQ-worthy.

[apegamer]

I have a question regarding one of Roy's shticks.....I think it's the one called "It's Called Foreshadowing".....whichever one lets you look at a player's battlehand and make them discard a monster.

Can Roy use the shtick on himself?

This shtick works only for other players.

[Leperflesh]

I have a few questions:

1. Conceptually, does a player's "loot pile" consist of only loot cards they have not equipped, or, both unequipped AND equipped loot? This matters because in some cases, a player is supposed to lose a loot from their "loot pile" randomly, and we wonder if this could include an equipped loot item.

2. If you face a flying monster, and all your Shticks are Range 0, can you still fight Shtickless? What if you are defending?

3. There is a monster which, before you attack it, causes you to Flip one of your Shticks at random. Are we correct in assuming that a) this only applies to your presently Unflipped Shticks (e.g., you do not include Flipped Shticks in the random selection - we know you can't unflip a flipped Shtick by flipping it again) and b) any Shtick can be so flipped, even if it is not normally a Shtick that you flip to use?

4. Still talking about that ability, what happens if your only possible mode of attack against that monster gets Flipped... so you can no longer attack it? Does combat continue anyway, or, can you "call off" your attack, assuming you were making a voluntary attack in the first place?

Thanks

-Lep

[ira212]

Can a shtick which normally doesn't get flipped be flipped?

Can you get 1 loot at the start of your turn, then draw two loot from resting?

You can move through rooms with monsters in them, but you can't move through empty rooms (since a monster will spawn that you have to fight.) Correct?

Durkon's W.W.T.D. shtick seems lame - it doesn't actually let draw more cards net, since you redraw whenever you're empty. Perhaps consider playing this as "Draw or Discard up to 3" ?

Can Durkon require players to give him Drool-worthy loot for healing, and have the promise kept? (or is there a chance for backstabbing?)

Thanks,
Ira