Rules Questions

[apegamer]

I have a few questions:

1. Conceptually, does a player's "loot pile" consist of only loot cards they have not equipped, or, both unequipped AND equipped loot? This matters because in some cases, a player is supposed to lose a loot from their "loot pile" randomly, and we wonder if this could include an equipped loot item.

I'm going to put the answer to this on hold. We're going to look at the spots in the game that reference 'loot pile' before formulating an answer.

2. If you face a flying monster, and all your Shticks are Range 0, can you still fight Shtickless? What if you are defending?

Yes, you'll fight shtickless. If you win, the battle is a draw.

3. There is a monster which, before you attack it, causes you to Flip one of your Shticks at random. Are we correct in assuming that a) this only applies to your presently Unflipped Shticks (e.g., you do not include Flipped Shticks in the random selection - we know you can't unflip a flipped Shtick by flipping it again) and b) any Shtick can be so flipped, even if it is not normally a Shtick that you flip to use?

Right, only an unflipped shtick will flip, even if it doesn't normally flip.

4. Still talking about that ability, what happens if your only possible mode of attack against that monster gets Flipped... so you can no longer attack it? Does combat continue anyway, or, can you "call off" your attack, assuming you were making a voluntary attack in the first place?

You will fight shtickless - no calling it off. And when fighting shtickless, battles you win are a draw.

[apegamer]

Can a shtick which normally doesn't get flipped be flipped?

Yes.

Can you get 1 loot at the start of your turn, then draw two loot from resting?

No. You cannot do anything when you rest except pick up the loot. It sounds like you're asking if you can pick up a loot, move to another room, then pick up 2 more loot and rest. If you rest in a room, you pick up (up to) 2 loot.

You can move through rooms with monsters in them, but you can't move through empty rooms (since a monster will spawn that you have to fight.) Correct?

No, you can move through rooms with monsters as well as through rooms without monsters. Only when you stop in a room do monsters populate.

Durkon's W.W.T.D. shtick seems lame - it doesn't actually let draw more cards net, since you redraw whenever you're empty. Perhaps consider playing this as "Draw or Discard up to 3" ?

I don't think it's lame. I love being able to replenish my hand periodically to get new Screw This! cards and monsters - especially since Durkon rests periodically for his other shticks.

Can Durkon require players to give him Drool-worthy loot for healing, and have the promise kept? (or is there a chance for backstabbing?)

I'm not sure I understand the question. Players give Durkon loot and he flips his Cure Assorted Wounds shtick to heal them. It's voluntary for players to give the loot to Durkon for the heal. He can't force them to heal.

[ira212]

Thanks for the blazingly quick and helpful reply!

You cannot do anything when you rest except pick up the loot. It sounds like you're asking if you can pick up a loot, move to another room, then pick up 2 more loot and rest. If you rest in a room, you pick up (up to) 2 loot.

I was asking: can I pick up 1 loot at the beginning of my turn, then do nothing else except rest (and pick up 2 more loot.) The rules state that you can rest as long as you haven't moved or battled, and when you rest, you don't move or battle. It doesn't say anything about the other beginning of turn effects, like searching for stairs, equipping, trading things in for shticks, picking up loot, etc.

I love being able to replenish my hand periodically to get new Screw This! cards and monsters - especially since Durkon rests periodically for his other shticks.

Hmm. If you add three cards to your hand, it's that much longer before you draw 7 new ones. It's nice to hear that someone out there likes it. :) It seemed to me that instead of drawing 3 cards, I could just wait a bit and draw 7. Am I misplaying this?

Maybe in the expansion there could be a shtick that allows someone (Durkon, Haley?) to keep unused Screw This cards when they draw a new hand.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

OK, let me try again:
Durkon: Belkar, I see that you're 1 wound away from death. I could heal you with my twice-boosted Cure Assorted Wounds for 3. In compensation, I would expect loot worthy of my immense holy power of healing.
Belkar: I have this loot that you doubly drool over. Would that meet your needs, your holiness?
Durkon: Yes, my child. I heal you. (flips over the Cure Assorted Wounds spell.)
Belkar: (hands Durkon a loot card...)

Given the agreement, must Belkar give Durkon the claimed loot (i.e. does Durkon know what he's getting in advance?), or could Belkar give anything?

Thanks,
Ira

[apegamer]

I was asking: can I pick up 1 loot at the beginning of my turn, then do nothing else except rest (and pick up 2 more loot.)

You would pick up 2 loot at the start of your turn, then rest. On your next turn, if there is still loot in the room, you can pick up one and take your normal turn or rest and pick up 2 more loot.

Given the agreement, must Belkar give Durkon the claimed loot (i.e. does Durkon know what he's getting in advance?), or could Belkar give anything?

Belkar gives Durkon ANY loot card. Actually, Durkon and Belkar don't need to discuss what loot card he'll give him. The intent of the shtick is that ANY loot can be given to him - not necessarily just loot he drools over. Durkon shouldn't expect to get loot he drools over.

[Zink]

Regarding Belkar's Poor Tracking Skills:

What happens if a player is required to play a monster into the room, but only has monsters of the type Belkar was looking for? Do the other players skip his turn, does he play the monster of that type, or does he have to discard his battle hand (which has monsters in it) and draw a new one?

[apegamer]

Regarding Belkar's Poor Tracking Skills:

What happens if a player is required to play a monster into the room, but only has monsters of the type Belkar was looking for? Do the other players skip his turn, does he play the monster of that type, or does he have to discard his battle hand (which has monsters in it) and draw a new one?

Good question. He should have to discard his battle hand and draw a new one. If he doesn't, then he may be stuck with that battle hand and continually get skipped skipped, as Poor Tracking Skills doesn't flip.

[Adeptus]

The wording on the ranged attack description made us think that any creature within reach was fair game. Is this what is intended?

This makes it possible to snipe the demon roaches from the bottom of a stack, so they won't be there later to assist the topmost creature in a fight.

Relating to that is a question regarding V's fireball. It effects several creatures in a stack. Does V get to choose which (as we played), or does it effect the topmost n cards (as I now think)?


[I didn't notice there was a separate thread for rule-questions. Now I know, so I'm putting my questions here.]

[Adeptus]

Having participated in a five player game I found myself pretty puzzled by the wording on the Ambush ability.

"...when this card enters play" was really confusing, since it never seemed to come up. Does the ambush happen the first time that creature is fought (as the card comes to the top of the stack) or only if that card is played as the top card?

I also found it a bit perplexing that Xykon is always on the top of his own stack, and that the dungeon collapse ends when he is defeated. From the comic, I'd have fought you have to fight a roomfull of people to get to him.

[This is also a copy, now that I know where these questions are supposed to be posted]

[bwcMD]

To Adeptus' questions:

Ranged attacks only target the topmost monster in a stack. You therefore cannot snipe selectively supporting monsters from the bottom of the stack (part of the advantage of having the Demon Roaches automatically go to the bottom of the pile). Likewise, area attacks only target the monsters at the top, counting down until the proper number of monsters is reached. The only exception is Durkon's Turn Undead, which specifically targets all undead and nothing else.

As for the Ambush ability, it's only used on the first turn the card is played. So when a Dire Lemming, supported by two other cards, first attacks, it gets an attack of 7 (it's baseline) + 6 (+3 for each supporting card) for a total Attack of 13. If the PC doesn't kill it on the first turn (either by using a defensive schtick like Hide, or just by taking damage), anyone else who attacks it (even the original PC on subsequent turns) doesn't have to contend with the extra +3's--just the baseline Attack of 7 (and whatever it's Defense value is).

As for Xykon being at the top of the stack, this goes back to your first question--by having all those goblins and undead beneath him, it allows them to support him, adding enormously to the strength of Xykon himself. It doesn't quite match the comic, but then again Roy did take Xykon out while there were a lot of monsters still about, and most of them simply fled in terror.

[Toriko]

I have a few question about assisting

When a player is assisting in a fight does that bonus last only for the battle with the top monster in the room?

(I really love the game and I can't wait to play with more than 2 people)

[apegamer]

The wording on the ranged attack description made us think that any creature within reach was fair game. Is this what is intended?

This makes it possible to snipe the demon roaches from the bottom of a stack, so they won't be there later to assist the topmost creature in a fight.

Relating to that is a question regarding V's fireball. It effects several creatures in a stack. Does V get to choose which (as we played), or does it effect the topmost n cards (as I now think)?

You must attack piles top-down in both cases. For area effects, you affect the top X monsters in the pile. Those pesky demon roaches are safe on the bottom of the pile until you nuke everything else.

[apegamer]

"...when this card enters play" was really confusing, since it never seemed to come up. Does the ambush happen the first time that creature is fought (as the card comes to the top of the stack) or only if that card is played as the top card?

If the monster is encountered on the turn it comes into play.

I also found it a bit perplexing that Xykon is always on the top of his own stack, and that the dungeon collapse ends when he is defeated. From the comic, I'd have fought you have to fight a roomfull of people to get to him.

Monsters below Xykon are used to beef him up. The 'big fight' before meeting Xykon happens in the other rooms in Xykon's Lair.

[apegamer]

I have a few question about assisting

When a player is assisting in a fight does that bonus last only for the battle with the top monster in the room?

Yes, only for a single die roll (i.e. single battle.)

I should add this as a clarification to the FAQ, as I get this question while I'm demo'ing the game.

[Kumquat]

1. some of the Xykon floor cards specify that you can not rest in that room, while most do not, and the Safe Haven specifically says you can. Does this mean that the part on the safe haven is just an extra sentance, or can you not rest in the rest of the xykon floor rooms and the Xykon's Secret Layer cards have the extra sentance?

2. this is more of a general curiosity question, but why can you only use Roy's charge schtick when going into empty rooms, rather than anytime you end your movement in a room causing you to fight monsters? also, do you have to choose to use the charge before monsters are played or can you wait to see what you have to fight before choosing whether you charged in?

[Ske]

My first game to reach Xykon's lair "ended" about an hour ago, but we weren't sure on how to handle Xykon exactly. It was a short game (2 player), so we were on level 4, and I enter the Throne Room and find Xykon. Unluckily, just prior to this, I had picked up a new battle deck hand consisting of a beige dragon and three demon roaches (one was the king). My friend chose to put a leader with horde ability down beneath Xykon along with something else, so I already had to put at least the rest of my battle hand in the room as well. Seeing as this consisted of the three henchmen, the battle size was suddenly so big, that we couldn't avoid supporting something with horde, no matter what we put down (more or less). When we were done, the rest of the battle deck cards were in that pile, giving Xykon 68 attack and defense from the 25 undead and goblins under him. Is this right? We ended the game shortly after, seeing as none of us (Roy, Durkon) could anything about him like that.

[Arcade]

My first game to reach Xykon's lair "ended" about an hour ago, but we weren't sure on how to handle Xykon exactly. It was a short game (2 player), so we were on level 4, and I enter the Throne Room and find Xykon. Unluckily, just prior to this, I had picked up a new battle deck hand consisting of a beige dragon and three demon roaches (one was the king). My friend chose to put a leader with horde ability down beneath Xykon along with something else, so I already had to put at least the rest of my battle hand in the room as well. Seeing as this consisted of the three henchmen, the battle size was suddenly so big, that we couldn't avoid supporting something with horde, no matter what we put down (more or less). When we were done, the rest of the battle deck cards were in that pile, giving Xykon 68 attack and defense from the 25 undead and goblins under him. Is this right? We ended the game shortly after, seeing as none of us (Roy, Durkon) could anything about him like that.

You did it right. Whenever you go down to Xykon's level, you really want to be careful about how much support you give him. In your case, you should have made sure your battle hand was adequately stocked with non-support cards before you went down. And opposing players need to make a balance between having a Xykon that will stop you this time and having a Xykon that can never be beaten.

In your case, there were also a few things you can do. First, Durkon's turn undead schtick can still be used on all the undead under Xykon, which would remove some support. Second, if you get the Screw This card "I forgot they could do that", you can remove Xykon's support Assist and then have a much more even fight.

[Ske]

In your case, there were also a few things you can do. First, Durkon's turn undead schtick can still be used on all the undead under Xykon, which would remove some support. Second, if you get the Screw This card "I forgot they could do that", you can remove Xykon's support Assist and then have a much more even fight.

We did consider that, but we ended before he got it. Most rooms on floors 1-2 were 'out of bounds' because of stuff we couldn't kill for various reasons (mostly flying), so my friend playing Durkon never got very many shticks. I had all shticks as Roy, but he's a one-at-a-time kind of guy.
I did have "I forgot they could that" at some point, obviously, as we went through the entire battle deck, but we weren't sure if it could be used on support abilities. We agreed that it couldn't, since it would make Xykon a pushover. 16/16 atk/def seemed too easy.

[Zavod]

The Lute card says you can flip a "Bard Song" card.

My question is: If you have 3 "Bard Song" cards in play, can you flip all three of them at once to get 3x the bonus, or are you limited to one per turn?

I played with flipping all 3 and it worked fairly well. But it is fairly powerful.

Thanks!

[The Giant]

The Lute card says you can flip a "Bard Song" card.

My question is: If you have 3 "Bard Song" cards in play, can you flip all three of them at once to get 3x the bonus, or are you limited to one per turn?

I played with flipping all 3 and it worked fairly well. But it is fairly powerful.

You played it correctly. It is fairly powerful, but can only be used once before needing to rest.

My first game to reach Xykon's lair "ended" about an hour ago, but we weren't sure on how to handle Xykon exactly. It was a short game (2 player), so we were on level 4, and I enter the Throne Room and find Xykon. Unluckily, just prior to this, I had picked up a new battle deck hand consisting of a beige dragon and three demon roaches (one was the king). My friend chose to put a leader with horde ability down beneath Xykon along with something else, so I already had to put at least the rest of my battle hand in the room as well. Seeing as this consisted of the three henchmen, the battle size was suddenly so big, that we couldn't avoid supporting something with horde, no matter what we put down (more or less). When we were done, the rest of the battle deck cards were in that pile, giving Xykon 68 attack and defense from the 25 undead and goblins under him. Is this right? We ended the game shortly after, seeing as none of us (Roy, Durkon) could anything about him like that.

Yes, you played it correctly. This is one of those things that works out better when you have played the game a few times and can predict the likely results. It is usually to the benefit of players to not carry around demon roach cards when someone is going towards Xykon, or to save cards that can nullify Xykon's Support somehow.

Also, don't forget that there is no limit to the amount of Loot you can offer NPCs from your hand for one battle, so in a two-player game, you can offer Loot to V, Haley, Belkar, and Elan in large quantities.

1. some of the Xykon floor cards specify that you can not rest in that room, while most do not, and the Safe Haven specifically says you can. Does this mean that the part on the safe haven is just an extra sentance, or can you not rest in the rest of the xykon floor rooms and the Xykon's Secret Layer cards have the extra sentance?

It is an extra sentence, leftover from a point in time when the proto-rules said you couldn't rest in ANY room in Xykon's Lair. That proved too harsh, so we changed it to only not being able to rest in the corridors. However, the room still functions normally, and may be useful in certain variants where the rules again state that there's no resting in Xykon's Lair.

2. this is more of a general curiosity question, but why can you only use Roy's charge schtick when going into empty rooms, rather than anytime you end your movement in a room causing you to fight monsters?

Balance. Roy is really powerful already, and giving him the option of using Charge in essentially every fight would be too much of an advantage.

also, do you have to choose to use the charge before monsters are played or can you wait to see what you have to fight before choosing whether you charged in?

You can use Charge at any time after the first Monster is played up until you roll the die.

OK, let me try again:
Durkon: Belkar, I see that you're 1 wound away from death. I could heal you with my twice-boosted Cure Assorted Wounds for 3. In compensation, I would expect loot worthy of my immense holy power of healing.
Belkar: I have this loot that you doubly drool over. Would that meet your needs, your holiness?
Durkon: Yes, my child. I heal you. (flips over the Cure Assorted Wounds spell.)
Belkar: (hands Durkon a loot card...)

Given the agreement, must Belkar give Durkon the claimed loot (i.e. does Durkon know what he's getting in advance?), or could Belkar give anything?

Belkar is not required to show Durkon what Loot he will give in advance. If Belkar agrees, Durkon heals him, and then Belkar picks one Loot from his Loot Stash and hands it to Durkon, without requiring Durkon's approval. Belkar could, I suppose, show Durkon a specific Loot and say he will give it to him in return for a heal, but the rules do not require Belkar to honor his word in that regard.

Remember that ALL Loot is useful, though; Durkon gathers a lot of Loot that isn't Drool-Worthy, but he can then turn around and use that to gain assistance in battle.

[Rhasimir]

I have a question about Elan's Poorly Planned Illusion. Actually it was funnier when I did not realize the text says that I *may* move a monster, not *must*. Anyways, I was in the second room in Xykon's lair, and the only available room to move the monster to was the Safe Haven, which has a battle size of 0! Is it legal to move a monster in a room with a battle size of 0? Or in that case should I have won but kept the monster in the same room as me?

[whatsit]

my set doesnt have any penultimate arcane powers. for that matter it only has 3 of Vs starting shticks. Can anyone tell me what the penultimate power card shtick does, and what V's 4 starting shticks are?

Thanks

[apegamer]

my set doesnt have any penultimate arcane powers. for that matter it only has 3 of Vs starting shticks. Can anyone tell me what the penultimate power card shtick does, and what V's 4 starting shticks are?

Please email me privately with contact information, along with what cards you're missing and we'll replace them.

The full list of game components can be found in a sticky post on this same forum.

[Xanthos]

One question that came up last night was Roy's Party Leadership schtick. It states that when he assists someone in battle, he may either heal a wound or unflip a schitck. I took this to mean heal one of Roy's wounds or unflip one of Roy's schticks, but the rest of my party said he could heal anyone or unflip anyone's schtick with that ability since it does not specifically refer to him. Which of us is right?

[apegamer]

One question that came up last night was Roy's Party Leadership schtick. It states that when he assists someone in battle, he may either heal a wound or unflip a schitck. I took this to mean heal one of Roy's wounds or unflip one of Roy's schticks, but the rest of my party said he could heal anyone or unflip anyone's schtick with that ability since it does not specifically refer to him. Which of us is right?

It's one of Roy's shticks or Roy's wounds.

[evnafets]

In a question related to Roys "Fearless Leader" shtick, does the person asking for aid still need to bribe him with Loot, or does the shtick override that requirement?

I can see people being reluctant to call in Roy if they have to pay him loot AND he gets healed/unflips a shtick.

[Khanthal]

Belkar does a twin daggers of doom + leaping attack at Roy from Range 1.

Roy only has his greenihlt sword with which to defend.

Leaping says it moves you to the target room at end of turn, you may loot if there are no monsters.

I can see this playing out one of two ways:

a) This is a ranged attack, greenhilt doesn't work. Roy defends without a schtick and gets smashed (at worst its a draw since it's w/o schtick). Belkar however does NOT get to loot an equipped loot since he didn't attack at range 0. End of turn Belkar moves in and may grab 1 loot if any happens to be laying around in the room and there are no monsters.

b) This is considered range 0 because belkar is moving into the room. Greenhilt sword applies for defense. If belkar wins he gets to steal one equipped loot.

The trouble is that while a) seems right it also seems wrong. One would think Belkar's best attack should get him loot. Though I suppose he could always move into the room and attack for the same net bonus and get a loot.

Also a) seems a bit wrong in that you'd think greenhilt would work against a flying halfling. Maybe he's just too fast heh. And it seems unfair to let Roy defend with his sword but leave Belkar with no chance at loot.

-----

Also, versus monsters am I correct in thinking that Belkar does not get 2 loots from a range 1 leap at a single monster that he kills? He just gets a standard end of turn 1 loot?

Presumably he can search for stairs.

[Arcade]

In a question related to Roys "Fearless Leader" shtick, does the person asking for aid still need to bribe him with Loot, or does the shtick override that requirement?

I can see people being reluctant to call in Roy if they have to pay him loot AND he gets healed/unflips a shtick.

He does get the loot. The downside for Roy is that he can never say no to assisting other characters, even if he would want to.

[Arcade]

Belkar does a twin daggers of doom + leaping attack at Roy from Range 1.

Roy only has his greenihlt sword with which to defend.

Leaping says it moves you to the target room at end of turn, you may loot if there are no monsters.

I can see this playing out one of two ways:

a) This is a ranged attack, greenhilt doesn't work. Roy defends without a schtick and gets smashed (at worst its a draw since it's w/o schtick). Belkar however does NOT get to loot an equipped loot since he didn't attack at range 0. End of turn Belkar moves in and may grab 1 loot if any happens to be laying around in the room and there are no monsters.

b) This is considered range 0 because belkar is moving into the room. Greenhilt sword applies for defense. If belkar wins he gets to steal one equipped loot.

The trouble is that while a) seems right it also seems wrong. One would think Belkar's best attack should get him loot. Though I suppose he could always move into the room and attack for the same net bonus and get a loot.

Also a) seems a bit wrong in that you'd think greenhilt would work against a flying halfling. Maybe he's just too fast heh. And it seems unfair to let Roy defend with his sword but leave Belkar with no chance at loot.

-----

Also, versus monsters am I correct in thinking that Belkar does not get 2 loots from a range 1 leap at a single monster that he kills? He just gets a standard end of turn 1 loot?

Presumably he can search for stairs.

We've played it that Belkar attacks Roy from range, but he gets an equipped loot if he wins. Roy has to fight schtickless. In other words, Belkar moves as soon as the battle dice have been resolved.

In your second question versus monsters, Belkar does get 2 loot from a range leap at a single monster that he kills (which is what the text on the card refers to). He can search for stairs. He could also attack Roy, take an equipped loot if he won, and then pick up one loot on the ground since he ended his turn there.

[Khanthal]

We've played it that Belkar attacks Roy from range, but he gets an equipped loot if he wins. Roy has to fight schtickless. In other words, Belkar moves as soon as the battle dice have been resolved.

That doesn't seem fair at all. Either it's a ranged attack and roy fights schtickless but belkar gets no equipped loot OR it's range 0 and Roy uses greenhilt and belkar gets loot. I don't see how you can mix-match.

In your second question versus monsters, Belkar does get 2 loot from a range leap at a single monster that he kills (which is what the text on the card refers to). He can search for stairs. He could also attack Roy, take an equipped loot if he won, and then pick up one loot on the ground since he ended his turn there.

I don't see how Belkar gets 2 loots. The card says he only moves there at the end of the turn so he follows the normal ranged mechanic (he doesnt get to loot 2 for killing the last monster) and just follows the end of turn loot mechanic.

[apegamer]

In a question related to Roys "Fearless Leader" shtick, does the person asking for aid still need to bribe him with Loot, or does the shtick override that requirement?

I can see people being reluctant to call in Roy if they have to pay him loot AND he gets healed/unflips a shtick.

Yes, the person asking for aid gives Roy loot as usual. Whenever this occurs, Roy can unflip a shtick or heal a wound.

You're right, if you have the Belt of Gender Changing with both Roy's picture and Elan's picture on it, you'll probably want to give it to Elan, especially if he's got a Bard Song or two in play.