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Thread: Rules Questions
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2006-11-13, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sniping into a stack (also fireball)
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2006-11-13, 09:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ambush / Xykon clarification needed
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2006-11-13, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
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2006-11-13, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
1. some of the Xykon floor cards specify that you can not rest in that room, while most do not, and the Safe Haven specifically says you can. Does this mean that the part on the safe haven is just an extra sentance, or can you not rest in the rest of the xykon floor rooms and the Xykon's Secret Layer cards have the extra sentance?
2. this is more of a general curiosity question, but why can you only use Roy's charge schtick when going into empty rooms, rather than anytime you end your movement in a room causing you to fight monsters? also, do you have to choose to use the charge before monsters are played or can you wait to see what you have to fight before choosing whether you charged in?"Never knock on Death's door: ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!" -Matt Frewer
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2006-11-15, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Rules Questions
My first game to reach Xykon's lair "ended" about an hour ago, but we weren't sure on how to handle Xykon exactly. It was a short game (2 player), so we were on level 4, and I enter the Throne Room and find Xykon. Unluckily, just prior to this, I had picked up a new battle deck hand consisting of a beige dragon and three demon roaches (one was the king). My friend chose to put a leader with horde ability down beneath Xykon along with something else, so I already had to put at least the rest of my battle hand in the room as well. Seeing as this consisted of the three henchmen, the battle size was suddenly so big, that we couldn't avoid supporting something with horde, no matter what we put down (more or less). When we were done, the rest of the battle deck cards were in that pile, giving Xykon 68 attack and defense from the 25 undead and goblins under him. Is this right? We ended the game shortly after, seeing as none of us (Roy, Durkon) could anything about him like that.
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2006-11-16, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- Ottawa,Ontario
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Re: Rules Questions
You did it right. Whenever you go down to Xykon's level, you really want to be careful about how much support you give him. In your case, you should have made sure your battle hand was adequately stocked with non-support cards before you went down. And opposing players need to make a balance between having a Xykon that will stop you this time and having a Xykon that can never be beaten.
In your case, there were also a few things you can do. First, Durkon's turn undead schtick can still be used on all the undead under Xykon, which would remove some support. Second, if you get the Screw This card "I forgot they could do that", you can remove Xykon's support Assist and then have a much more even fight.Arcade
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2006-11-16, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Rules Questions
We did consider that, but we ended before he got it. Most rooms on floors 1-2 were 'out of bounds' because of stuff we couldn't kill for various reasons (mostly flying), so my friend playing Durkon never got very many shticks. I had all shticks as Roy, but he's a one-at-a-time kind of guy.
I did have "I forgot they could that" at some point, obviously, as we went through the entire battle deck, but we weren't sure if it could be used on support abilities. We agreed that it couldn't, since it would make Xykon a pushover. 16/16 atk/def seemed too easy.
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2006-11-17, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
The Lute Card (Elan Shtick)
The Lute card says you can flip a "Bard Song" card.
My question is: If you have 3 "Bard Song" cards in play, can you flip all three of them at once to get 3x the bonus, or are you limited to one per turn?
I played with flipping all 3 and it worked fairly well. But it is fairly powerful.
Thanks!
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2006-11-25, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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- Philadelphia, PA
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Re: Rules Questions
You played it correctly. It is fairly powerful, but can only be used once before needing to rest.
Yes, you played it correctly. This is one of those things that works out better when you have played the game a few times and can predict the likely results. It is usually to the benefit of players to not carry around demon roach cards when someone is going towards Xykon, or to save cards that can nullify Xykon's Support somehow.
Also, don't forget that there is no limit to the amount of Loot you can offer NPCs from your hand for one battle, so in a two-player game, you can offer Loot to V, Haley, Belkar, and Elan in large quantities.
It is an extra sentence, leftover from a point in time when the proto-rules said you couldn't rest in ANY room in Xykon's Lair. That proved too harsh, so we changed it to only not being able to rest in the corridors. However, the room still functions normally, and may be useful in certain variants where the rules again state that there's no resting in Xykon's Lair.
Balance. Roy is really powerful already, and giving him the option of using Charge in essentially every fight would be too much of an advantage.
You can use Charge at any time after the first Monster is played up until you roll the die.
Belkar is not required to show Durkon what Loot he will give in advance. If Belkar agrees, Durkon heals him, and then Belkar picks one Loot from his Loot Stash and hands it to Durkon, without requiring Durkon's approval. Belkar could, I suppose, show Durkon a specific Loot and say he will give it to him in return for a heal, but the rules do not require Belkar to honor his word in that regard.
Remember that ALL Loot is useful, though; Durkon gathers a lot of Loot that isn't Drool-Worthy, but he can then turn around and use that to gain assistance in battle.Rich Burlew
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2006-11-25, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Rules Questions
I have a question about Elan's Poorly Planned Illusion. Actually it was funnier when I did not realize the text says that I *may* move a monster, not *must*. Anyways, I was in the second room in Xykon's lair, and the only available room to move the monster to was the Safe Haven, which has a battle size of 0! Is it legal to move a monster in a room with a battle size of 0? Or in that case should I have won but kept the monster in the same room as me?
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2006-11-29, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
penultimate arcane power
my set doesnt have any penultimate arcane powers. for that matter it only has 3 of Vs starting shticks. Can anyone tell me what the penultimate power card shtick does, and what V's 4 starting shticks are?
Thanks
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2006-11-29, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- Houston, TX
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Re: penultimate arcane power
Owner of APE Games.
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2006-11-29, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Rules Questions
One question that came up last night was Roy's Party Leadership schtick. It states that when he assists someone in battle, he may either heal a wound or unflip a schitck. I took this to mean heal one of Roy's wounds or unflip one of Roy's schticks, but the rest of my party said he could heal anyone or unflip anyone's schtick with that ability since it does not specifically refer to him. Which of us is right?
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2006-11-30, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Owner of APE Games.
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2006-11-30, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- NZ
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Re: Rules Questions
In a question related to Roys "Fearless Leader" shtick, does the person asking for aid still need to bribe him with Loot, or does the shtick override that requirement?
I can see people being reluctant to call in Roy if they have to pay him loot AND he gets healed/unflips a shtick.Check out past werewolf games at the Unofficial GiantITP werewolf archive
Also wasting too much time playing Evony right now.
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2006-12-01, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
Belkar does a twin daggers of doom + leaping attack at Roy from Range 1.
Roy only has his greenihlt sword with which to defend.
Leaping says it moves you to the target room at end of turn, you may loot if there are no monsters.
I can see this playing out one of two ways:
a) This is a ranged attack, greenhilt doesn't work. Roy defends without a schtick and gets smashed (at worst its a draw since it's w/o schtick). Belkar however does NOT get to loot an equipped loot since he didn't attack at range 0. End of turn Belkar moves in and may grab 1 loot if any happens to be laying around in the room and there are no monsters.
b) This is considered range 0 because belkar is moving into the room. Greenhilt sword applies for defense. If belkar wins he gets to steal one equipped loot.
The trouble is that while a) seems right it also seems wrong. One would think Belkar's best attack should get him loot. Though I suppose he could always move into the room and attack for the same net bonus and get a loot.
Also a) seems a bit wrong in that you'd think greenhilt would work against a flying halfling. Maybe he's just too fast heh. And it seems unfair to let Roy defend with his sword but leave Belkar with no chance at loot.
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Also, versus monsters am I correct in thinking that Belkar does not get 2 loots from a range 1 leap at a single monster that he kills? He just gets a standard end of turn 1 loot?
Presumably he can search for stairs.
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2006-12-01, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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2006-12-01, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
We've played it that Belkar attacks Roy from range, but he gets an equipped loot if he wins. Roy has to fight schtickless. In other words, Belkar moves as soon as the battle dice have been resolved.
In your second question versus monsters, Belkar does get 2 loot from a range leap at a single monster that he kills (which is what the text on the card refers to). He can search for stairs. He could also attack Roy, take an equipped loot if he won, and then pick up one loot on the ground since he ended his turn there.Arcade
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2006-12-01, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
That doesn't seem fair at all. Either it's a ranged attack and roy fights schtickless but belkar gets no equipped loot OR it's range 0 and Roy uses greenhilt and belkar gets loot. I don't see how you can mix-match.
In your second question versus monsters, Belkar does get 2 loot from a range leap at a single monster that he kills (which is what the text on the card refers to). He can search for stairs. He could also attack Roy, take an equipped loot if he won, and then pick up one loot on the ground since he ended his turn there.
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2006-12-01, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- Houston, TX
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Re: Rules Questions
Yes, the person asking for aid gives Roy loot as usual. Whenever this occurs, Roy can unflip a shtick or heal a wound.
You're right, if you have the Belt of Gender Changing with both Roy's picture and Elan's picture on it, you'll probably want to give it to Elan, especially if he's got a Bard Song or two in play.Owner of APE Games.
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2006-12-01, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
When Belkar attacks Roy with Twin Daggers of Doom, he's attacking from Range 1, not Range 0, so Roy cannot use Greenhilt Sword. After the attack is resolved, Belkar moves into the room and can take a loot from Roy.
I'll have to go back to look exactly how it's worded, but I think that if at the end of your turn you're in a room which you cleared out the last monster, you can take 2 loot. Consider that to be the case unless I come back and edit this post.Owner of APE Games.
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2006-12-01, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Rules Questions
Several nit-picky questions that have come up. As far as I can tell, they haven't been addressed in this thread (crosses fingers).
Durkon's Darkvision lets you see the top card on the room stack. DOes this apply to Xykon's room stack as well, once you're in Xykon's Lair?
This is probably a long shot, but can Elan's Poorly Planned Illusion move a monster stack in 2 different directions? I.e. move Sabine, Nale, and THog right and move the 2 forgettable goblins left? Or does it move the entire monster pile together in 1 direction?
"There is no I in team", punishes the assisting player with a wound when the battling player loses. Can it be played after a Double Cross? (which adds your assist to the monster instead of the player) It seemed like an effective counter against Double Cross. Also, could you theoretically play multiple copies? I had a game where I was double crossed by Roy, so multiple "There is no I in team"'s were played, killing Roy. I was highly amused.
Can Belkar flip 2 Halfling Rages, if both copies are face up? Flip both copies for +6, +6? And if he does, how many wounds does he lose?
The timing got a little weird with another Screw This combo. Haley won a battle with some assistance from Varsuvius. She then played Eternal Gratitutde to take back the loot (Ultimate Arcane Power). V then played a double cross to cause Haley to lose the combat. We said that it was too late to play the double cross. But V argued that it said to play it after the dice were rolled, so it still applied. We then wondered if V were right, would Haley get back her Eternal Gratitude, since she gets her loot back, anyway?
If Durkon rolls a 14 at the Shrine of THor, what happens? (Through the Divine Intervention of THor which turns 1's into 13's, and the fact that Durkon gets +1 at the Shrine.) We ruled that Thor himself blessed Durkon's Faithfulness, and that everyone else had to fetch him snacks and drinks from the living room. I think this should become an official errata.
Can I give loot to NPC's if _I_ am the only other player who drools over it?
I won (yay!) last night by meeting Xykon, and then forgetting he could do that to his support bonuses from Goblins and undead, making it irrelavent what monsters were put below him. Is that okay? SHould this be allowed? WIthout his AWESOME BONUSES, it was kind of trivial to defeat him.
And to let you know, here's my records with this game, so far:
Belkar vs. Roy - winner is Belkar (Roy was strangely awful with his crippling weakness against flying and impervious, and Belkar never PvP'ed.)
Haley vs. Varsuvius - winner is Haley (by a huge margin, Varsuvius was not good, when Haley is singlehandedly dealing with her stacks, leaving nothing for V)
Elan vs. Durkon - winner is Durkon (Elan is not so good in a 2 player game)
Last night, we had all the OOTS members, except for Elan playing. I won with Durkon, with Haley being the only other member with all 20 shticks. Roy did the worst.
Also, Xykon has been the first monster we've met in 3 out of the 4 games!
Final thought is that the time estimate on the game is a huge underestimation. That being said, I really enjoy the humor of the game and the fact that each character is so different. I've refused to look through the shticks because I want to be surprised (though by now I've seen them all). Very impressive work!
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2006-12-03, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
Searched a little bit and don't think this question has been answered. On the Haley shtick where she gets the bonus from being on the same floor as Elan or Nale (don't remember name of shtick) it gets boosted if she's fighting Nale or Elan. Since she doesn't have another copy of this shtick is the only way to boost it by the screw this card "Get Angry" or is it just boosted whenever she's fighting one of them?
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2006-12-04, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Gallifrey
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Re: Rules Questions
As a follow up question: if Vaarsuvius uses a ranged attack on (say) Belkar, can he send in his familiar to get loot from Belkar?
And question two:
If I have two bard song shtick cards, and someone flips the bard song Shtick with a Screw this card or Roys/Haley's shtick, do they flip only one 'bard song' card (removing one support), or all cards with that name (disabling the shtick entirely?)?
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2006-12-04, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
Just IMO. But while not spelled out, it seems to me "Double Cross" is played before the battle is resolved, and Eternal Gratitude after (that is, the monster is dead and dropped his loot).
So if Eternal Gratitude is played, the battle outcome has already been determined, and then the Double Cross cannot be used any more (as the monster is already defeated and Haley is already filling her bags of holding).
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2006-12-06, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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Re: Rules Questions
No. Blackwing's card specifies "When you defeat the last Monster in a room..." meaning that it has no effect when battling other players.
Only one card is flipped.
Currently the only ways to boost this card (called Secret Crush) is through using Get Angry or having Vaarsuvius target it with the Buff Spell shtick. There might be other ways in future expansions.
It is not automatically boosted whenever she's fighting one of them; it merely gains a +4 bonus towards fighting them when it IS boosted by some other means (such as Get Angry). The intent is that when Haley "gets angry" at Elan or Nale, she's much better at fighting them--"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." If it is boosted by Get Angry on a turn when she's not battling Elan or Nale, the Boost has no real effect.
No. The Room Deck means the deck with the words "Dungeon Rooms" on the back, not the Xykon's Lair deck. If you need an explanation, the magical darkness in Xykon's Lair can't be penetrated by mere darkvision.
Each monster is moved individually, so yes, you can do that exact thing. Further, if the room has stairs going down, you could move Nale and Sabine down, Thog left, and the two goblins right.
Nope. Once Double Cross is played, that player is no longer assisting the battling player, they are assisting the Monster (or other player). As a result, they are no longer effected by There is No "I" in Team, which specifically says that only those players that were assisting the losing player lose 1 Wound--and the Double Cross-using player is NOT assisting the losing player anymore.
There is one semi-exception: If the Player A is fighting Player B, and Player C is assisting is assisting Player A. Player C then uses Double Cross so that he is now assisting Player B. Now, if Player B loses, Player C would be affected by a There is No "I" in Team card played on Player B. If Player A loses and the card is thus played on Player A, then Player C is not affected, as he ended up assisting the winner.
Multiple There is No "I" in Team cards can be played, yes, but the exact situation you describe is not legal, since Roy was no longer assisting a player at all.
Yes, he can flip both. At the end of the battle, he loses 1 Wound, because the first shtick to be flipped was Boosted by the second copy (meaning that you don't lose 1 Wound for using it), but the second shtick to be flipped was not.
Vaarsuvius was incorrect here. "After the dice were rolled" means immediately after the die roll, before moving on in the battle sequence. Making the die roll is Step 5; giving Loot to players that assisted you is part of the Aftermath, or Step 7. Haley cannot play Eternal Gratitude until Step 7; the card says to play it immediately AFTER any battle (the Aftermath, as its name implies, is after the battle). Vaarsuvius cannot back the sequence up to Step 5 once the battle is concluded. As a result, he cannot Double Cross Haley after she plays Eternal Gratitude.
This is probably one for the FAQ, though.
Durkon can't roll a 14; Divine Intervention of Thor specifically states that it works when rolling the die "in battle". Therefore it has no effect on the Shrine of Thor.
Yes.
This is, in fact, the very best way to defeat Xykon. It is absolutely legal and has been suggested by us as one of the primary solutions to the "invincible Xykon" problem. Good planning = win.Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~
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2006-12-11, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Rules Questions
Thanks for the reply! That answers everything I needed to know.
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2006-12-18, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
I've looked through the rules and haven't seen it, but I may have just missed the answer. Anyways, the question is can you range attack and then move? I know you can't move and then attack but can you do the reverse?
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2006-12-18, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
Anyways, the question is can you range attack and then move?
Reference Page 8 of the rules, "Taking Turns" section 2, paragraph 2 (or is that paragraph 3?)
Movement always comes before battling; if you begin a battle you may no longer move this turn
You may choose whether or not to move your character on your turn. If you choose to move however you do so before battling monsters or other playersLast edited by evnafets; 2006-12-18 at 06:24 PM.
Check out past werewolf games at the Unofficial GiantITP werewolf archive
Also wasting too much time playing Evony right now.
I don't wanna be a llama or a duck or a wabbit.
I wanna be a POODLE!
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2006-12-21, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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Re: Rules Questions
Yup, that's right. Movement, if there is any, always comes before battling.
Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~