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Thread: Rules Questions

  1. - Top - End - #211
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    smile Re: Rules Questions (reply to post #179)

    Leperflesh (post #179) asks:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leperflesh View Post
    1. Conceptually, does a player's "loot pile" consist of only loot cards they have not equipped, or, both unequipped AND equipped loot? This matters because in some cases, a player is supposed to lose a loot from their "loot pile" randomly, and we wonder if this could include an equipped loot item.
    [answer "put on hold" by apegamer in post #181]

    Page 24, top of column 2, says that the Loot Stash is a "face-down pile of Loot cards that belong to you." Equipped cards are face-up, so they are not part of your Loot Stash. Your Loot Stash is stashed away from prying eyes. Also, page 17 (PvP section) rule 6 clearly distinguishes between equipped Loot and the Loot Stash.

    HTH

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  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Post For lo, I ask questions in bulk, for greater savings!

    Okay; my group has played the game several times and has come up with a nice big set of questions: some are nitpicky, but most (hopefully) are significant. After reading the whole thread, I've eliminated about half of them, so here are our remaining questions. (Apologies in advance for the length of the list - and in spite of that, a dozen times as many thanks to Rich for a highly entertaining game!)

    ================

    If Elan uses Poorly-Planned Illusion to move creatures, must they move in any particular order, or can Elan decide the order they end up moving and stacking into the new room(s)? (I'm assuming that in whatever order they are added, they must go on top of any existing monsters in the destination rooms, as Rich stipulated earlier.)

    ---

    On discarding loot:
    When discarding a loot card that says to discard it to get a schtick, must the loot be equipped first, or can it be discarded from the Loot Stash at any time during your turn? ( V's "Valuable Knowledge" loot allows him to "discard to draw one schtick..." - must it be equipped for him to discard it and get a schtick?)

    Similarly, what about discarding three drools' worth of ordinary loot to get a schtick: must that loot be equipped first, or does it matter?

    (These "equip to discard" questions were points of contention in our gaming group, particularly the first. I say that "discard" means putting the card in the discard pile, regardless of whether it is taken from your Loot Stash or your Equipped Loot.)

    ---

    Can you use Area Effect schticks in the first battle upon entering a room? Page 18 says that you use Attack and the monsters use Defense. Is this an exception to the normal conduct of combat, where you always use Defense in the first battle upon entering a room, or does it mean that you cannot use Area Effect schticks for that first battle?

    ---

    The Gratuitous Nudity card says, "This card counts as a match card for the Hide schtick." Does that mean it boosts Hide, or what?

    ---

    If Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion moves monsters into Safe Haven ("Battle Size in this room is always equal to 0"), do the monsters go away, or do they sit there waiting to attack?

    ---

    When the cards run out in the Loot Deck or the Battle Deck, is that it, or should discard piles be shuffled and recycled when necessary? (Or not shuffled but recycled?)

    ---

    Xykon has two red Xs - are they irrelevant, since you must keep him for bragging points, or can he be exchanged toward a schtick in addition to the bragging points? Or, since the dungeon is collapsing, is it impossible to acquire more schticks?

    ---

    Page 27 says, "Starting from the room in which Xykon was defeated and moving upward through the Dungeon, each Monster left in play is discarded." Does that mean all rooms on each level, or just the rooms on the path out of the dungeon?

    If it's all rooms, should the monsters be removed, and the Loot be dropped, in any particular order? (The question is mainly only relevant in case the Loot deck runs out.) For example, should we have a house rule to vacate each level starting with the lowest and working up, and going from the left-most room to the right-most room on each level? Is there a method preferred by the game designers?

    ---

    Are events such as card effects resolved as instants or interrupts? In other words, do effects generated by Screw This cards, schticks, equipped Loot, etc. take place immediately in the order they are played, or do they resolve in reverse order of play? (I can't remember the exact situation where this came up, but it had something to do with one effect possibly countering or magnifying another.)

    ---

    When two Roach monsters are played in a battle, say an ordinary roach and the roach king, how do you decide which one goes to the very bottom of the battle stack and which one is second from the bottom? (I can imagine a rules literalist going crazy over the paradox.)

    ---

    The FAQ appears inconsistent on how 'I Forgot They Could Do That' works with Leader and Horde. I agree with Uthrac and The Giant that once monsters are in play, they should not be un-played.

    Would it be fair to say that when IFTCDT is played to negate either Leader or Horde, that the battle size is reduced accordingly, but that if the decrease results in a smaller battle size than the current battle stack, the monsters already in play simply stay where they are?

    So if the battle size were normally 3, but it became 5 because of Leader or Horde, and IFTCDT is then used to negate the Leader or Horde after 4 monsters have been played, then the battle simply commences with 4 monsters in the room.

    If that's agreeable, then can we get the FAQ updated to reflect this, in response to the question "Q) If you use the Screw This! card that allows you to negate abilities, how does this work for Leaders?" The consistency and simplicity of such a ruling would be appreciated!

    ---

    When a non-Monster Xykon's Lair card is played in a room, and it gets flipped when the last monster is defeated (thus deactivating its effect), is it subsequently un-flipped and re-activated if a player enters the empty room again and triggers a battle?

    ---

    Both Page 17 (PvP assistance) and Page 13, rule 2 ("you must offer that player *a* Loot card") seem to imply that you can only offer each player one Loot per battle. Page 17 rule 2 says "...assistance beyond the offer of one Loot card..."

    Does this mean that PvP assistance is limited to only one Loot card per assisting player? If so, does this only apply to PvP? (The FAQ "Can you give more than one loot per battle?" states that you can offer multiple Loot to the same player.) If PvP assistance is NOT limited to one Loot card, then perhaps the FAQ answer should also stipulate that.

    ---

    mikecyr's question on range and Bloodlust (post #59) seems to need an errata entry. The text on page 12, "any result that would lead to a win for the Monster is instead considered a draw," contradicts Bloodlust's text. I propose that the errata should reflect that since the Monster is out of its range, its Bloodlust would not apply, except in the Area Effect scenario described on page 18 (as the monsters are working together in response to the area attack).

    ===========

    Much obliged for any help!
    -m
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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: For lo, I ask questions in bulk, for greater savings!

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    If Elan uses Poorly-Planned Illusion to move creatures, must they move in any particular order, or can Elan decide the order they end up moving and stacking into the new room(s)? (I'm assuming that in whatever order they are added, they must go on top of any existing monsters in the destination rooms, as Rich stipulated earlier.)
    The monsters can be distributed into various rooms, and can be placed into those rooms in any order. They should be placed on top of any stack of creatures already in the room, though. Well, unless the monsters you're moving are pesky Demon Roaches, which skitter to the bottom.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    On discarding loot:
    When discarding a loot card that says to discard it to get a schtick, must the loot be equipped first, or can it be discarded from the Loot Stash at any time during your turn? ( V's "Valuable Knowledge" loot allows him to "discard to draw one schtick..." - must it be equipped for him to discard it and get a schtick?)

    Similarly, what about discarding three drools' worth of ordinary loot to get a schtick: must that loot be equipped first, or does it matter?
    It needn't be equipped - just show the other players that you're trading in the right cards.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    Can you use Area Effect schticks in the first battle upon entering a room? Page 18 says that you use Attack and the monsters use Defense. Is this an exception to the normal conduct of combat, where you always use Defense in the first battle upon entering a room, or does it mean that you cannot use Area Effect schticks for that first battle?
    The text on page 18 assumes you're attacking with the area effect shtick, but you attack and defend as normal when using area effect shticks. So if you move into a room, then you're defending (and cannot use Fireball, for instance.)

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    The Gratuitous Nudity card says, "This card counts as a match card for the Hide schtick." Does that mean it boosts Hide, or what?
    It boosts Hide.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    If Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion moves monsters into Safe Haven ("Battle Size in this room is always equal to 0"), do the monsters go away, or do they sit there waiting to attack?
    The monsters stay there and fight. Similarly, if you move a monster into any room with Battle Size 0, it would remain there. The Battle Size pertains only to populating the room.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    When the cards run out in the Loot Deck or the Battle Deck, is that it, or should discard piles be shuffled and recycled when necessary? (Or not shuffled but recycled?)
    When they're gone, they're gone. That's motivation to finish up the game before the deck runs out.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    Xykon has two red Xs - are they irrelevant, since you must keep him for bragging points, or can he be exchanged toward a schtick in addition to the bragging points? Or, since the dungeon is collapsing, is it impossible to acquire more schticks?
    You can still acquire shticks while the dungeon is collapsing (though it really only makes sense to trade in monsters, not loot, since loot is worth more victory points at the end of the game.) Xykon is worth 2 times the level bragging points (as mentioned in the FAQ.) You can trade him in for a shtick (along with another XP) but keep track that you killed him, so that you get the points at the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    Page 27 says, "Starting from the room in which Xykon was defeated and moving upward through the Dungeon, each Monster left in play is discarded." Does that mean all rooms on each level, or just the rooms on the path out of the dungeon?
    Every room in the dungeon is cleared of monsters.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    If it's all rooms, should the monsters be removed, and the Loot be dropped, in any particular order? (The question is mainly only relevant in case the Loot deck runs out.) For example, should we have a house rule to vacate each level starting with the lowest and working up, and going from the left-most room to the right-most room on each level? Is there a method preferred by the game designers?
    Start at the bottom (Xykon's Lair) and work your way up. If you run out, do not use cards from the discard pile - the rest of the monsters just don't drop loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    Are events such as card effects resolved as instants or interrupts? In other words, do effects generated by Screw This cards, schticks, equipped Loot, etc. take place immediately in the order they are played, or do they resolve in reverse order of play? (I can't remember the exact situation where this came up, but it had something to do with one effect possibly countering or magnifying another.)
    Screw This! cards are resolved in LIFO order. In other words, you can play a Screw This! card that negates, changes or amplifies previously-played Screw This! cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    When two Roach monsters are played in a battle, say an ordinary roach and the roach king, how do you decide which one goes to the very bottom of the battle stack and which one is second from the bottom? (I can imagine a rules literalist going crazy over the paradox.)
    Demon Roaches go to the bottom of the stack as they're played.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    The FAQ appears inconsistent on how 'I Forgot They Could Do That' works with Leader and Horde. I agree with Uthrac and The Giant that once monsters are in play, they should not be un-played.

    Would it be fair to say that when IFTCDT is played to negate either Leader or Horde, that the battle size is reduced accordingly, but that if the decrease results in a smaller battle size than the current battle stack, the monsters already in play simply stay where they are?

    So if the battle size were normally 3, but it became 5 because of Leader or Horde, and IFTCDT is then used to negate the Leader or Horde after 4 monsters have been played, then the battle simply commences with 4 monsters in the room.

    If that's agreeable, then can we get the FAQ updated to reflect this, in response to the question "Q) If you use the Screw This! card that allows you to negate abilities, how does this work for Leaders?" The consistency and simplicity of such a ruling would be appreciated!
    I updated the FAQ a couple days ago to resolve the inconsistency, but didn't announce the change because we're still playtesting at least one other change that may go into the FAQ.

    Cards are not removed from the battle, but the battle stops where it is, as IFTCDT is played, as you indicate.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    When a non-Monster Xykon's Lair card is played in a room, and it gets flipped when the last monster is defeated (thus deactivating its effect), is it subsequently un-flipped and re-activated if a player enters the empty room again and triggers a battle?
    They're one-shot only cards, so no.


    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    Both Page 17 (PvP assistance) and Page 13, rule 2 ("you must offer that player *a* Loot card") seem to imply that you can only offer each player one Loot per battle. Page 17 rule 2 says "...assistance beyond the offer of one Loot card..."

    Does this mean that PvP assistance is limited to only one Loot card per assisting player? If so, does this only apply to PvP? (The FAQ "Can you give more than one loot per battle?" states that you can offer multiple Loot to the same player.) If PvP assistance is NOT limited to one Loot card, then perhaps the FAQ answer should also stipulate that.
    No, you can offer as many loot as you want to players for assistance, regardless whether it's PvP or PvM.

    Quote Originally Posted by memetics View Post
    mikecyr's question on range and Bloodlust (post #59) seems to need an errata entry. The text on page 12, "any result that would lead to a win for the Monster is instead considered a draw," contradicts Bloodlust's text. I propose that the errata should reflect that since the Monster is out of its range, its Bloodlust would not apply, except in the Area Effect scenario described on page 18 (as the monsters are working together in response to the area attack).
    Well I think people understand the spirit of the rule, but it might not hurt to put it in the FAQ so that the Rules Gestapo don't kick our door in.


    As usual, Craig or Rich may have additional comments on this. Nothing's really officially official until it goes in the FAQ.
    Owner of APE Games.

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: For lo, I ask questions in bulk, for greater savings!

    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    When they're gone, they're gone. That's motivation to finish up the game before the deck runs out.
    I disagree with this answer. On page 26 of the rules, under REMOVING TRAPS FROM THE GAME, it says "Do NOT put it [the traps] in the Loot Deck discard pile. If you do, then when the Loot Deck needs to be reshuffled, it will be filled with more traps than Loot!"

    Additionally, not allowing the monster deck to be reshuffled will cause Xykon to be laughably easy, what with having no possibility of support!


    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    Start at the bottom (Xykon's Lair) and work your way up. If you run out, do not use cards from the discard pile - the rest of the monsters just don't drop loot.
    I disagree with this too. Why waste so much loot in Xykon's room when it'll be the first to collapse? You can grab two loot out of it and then its gone. I would say fill loot from top-down, in order to give people a better chance to grab it!

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Hi, I've only read through the first four pages of the thread so far, so I hope these aren't duplicate questions.

    - When can Durkon's healing schtick be used? Does it have to be on Durkon's player's turn? Does it have to be in a particular phase of a turn? Can the player use it when resting, before flipping up all their cards? The rules for schticks don't talk about timing for non-battle schticks, and the text on the schtick itself doesn't either give timing requirements or say "anytime".

    - How many assistance-for-loot proposals can be extended by a player for a particular battle? The rules don't seem to say, but we thought we found some wording that implied that only one other character can assist in a single battle. However, the wording of one of the answers in the FAQ at http://www.apegames.com/oots/oots-dod/OOTSDoD-FAQ.pdf as of 10/25/2006 suggests that multiple players can assist.

    Also, a comment on something we found confusing when getting started: it was hard to find the part that explained how and when new Battle Deck cards are drawn. As far as we could tell it was only mentioned in an inset box, not anywhere in the "getting started" area or main rules covering the Battle Deck.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    In a normal battle, all the other players can assist if they so choose and are on the same level. They can assist for as much loot as the person requesting assistance is willing to offer.

    The only exception is PvP battles. Any given player can only assist one of the people in the duel. So, if Belkar and Roy are fighting, Haley can help one, but not the other.
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    With regards to ranged attacks:

    I played Vaarsuvias in our 1st game and noted that the Fireball schtick had a range of 4. I went to use this on a monster with a range <4. How does the monster defend?

    We played it that the monster was effectively "fighting with no schticks" so therefore as monster's don't roll a defense roll, I would win automatically. The only monsters that had a chance when their range was <0 were any with the "Tricky" ability which then gave them a Defense score of "10" as per the "Tricky" ability to give them +10 (so 0 from lack of range +10 for "Tricky" = 10 total Defense.)

    Is this the right way Fireball and any other ranged attacks work against monsters? Some players argued it was too powerful that I could automatically kill these monsters, my argument was that I had to rest after each fight of this type to recover the then flipped Fireball schtick

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Durkon's Healing schtick can be used at any time except when he is fleeing.

    If the monster has range less than the attack against it then it can not attack back, meaning that if you fail to hurt it then, instead of suffering the monsters win conditions (a wound and whatever other abilities it has) the player takes no ill effects, so no wounds and such.
    Last edited by Kumquat; 2006-12-30 at 10:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    So specifically, a range attack against a creature with no range defense means that the creature is defeated automatically?

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    The combat is your attack value against their defence value. If you win you kill them. If they win then nothing happens. The only risk you take is possibly wasting your action and having to flip the shtick, you don't risk taking a wound.

    What I'd like to know about area effects is if you can target monsters in more than one room. Lets say V has a boosted fireball that targets four monsters and there are two rooms of two monsters within range. In our games we have assumed that V targets a room rather than stacked targets.

    Also turn undead is an area effect, when you use it do you need to find the highest att/def value in the monster stack or the highest att/def value of undead in the stack? If it's just the undead is Xykon included when attempting to remove his zombie support?

    Use of this area effect ceases combat? Even if there was only one undead targeted?

    Side story... When trying to rectify the invincible Xykon scenario (which has only happened once in many many games (he got to 66att/def)) we tried that but then decided to hold out for an "I forgot they could do that" which led to "I rest, I flip What would Thor do, I rest again", which was a funny combo. Durkon had a huge number of screw this cards and only lost because a player got lucky with drawing a new battle hand.
    Last edited by Totally Guy; 2006-12-31 at 06:18 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    No everyone is missing the point :)

    If you use a ranged attack of say range 4 against a monster that has a range of <4 the rules state that the monster cannot defend against the attack. Therefore we concluded that since it cannot attack it is defeated automatically. Is this the correct interpretation?

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    If the monster doesn't have enough range to reach the attacker then "the Monster cannot win the battle; any result that would lead to a win for the Monster is instead considered a draw" (12). Other than that, the roll plays out normally. You still roll against its defense, only exception being that if your result is lower than its defense you don't get a wound.

    For Area Effects, it states that you only take the highest defense of that monster that is directly targeted. A two target fireball wouldn't take the 4th monster's defense. Likewise a non-undead wouldn't count against for Turn Undead. Here's the Giant's ruling on TU against Xykon.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    "Turn Undead specifically says right on the card that you can't use it against Xykon. Treat Xykon as simply not being there for the purpose of using that shtick; the card just ignores him. Note that you CAN use it at Range 0 even if Xykon is the top monster, it just doesn't affect him. Technically, the top monster IS undead, even if it is a monster with a specific immunity to the shtick, making the conditions needed to use the card true. Thus, you can use the shtick.

    Turning Xykon's undead out from under him is a great strategy, by the way. You bypass Xykon's ultrahigh Defense because he cannot be affected by the card!"

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    1. What would happen if while a player is asking for assistance in battle i used dun dun DUN!!!! to flip the Battle Shtick they chose to use in that battle?

    2. If i sucessfully use Poorly-Planned Illusion and choose to move the monster into the next room, if that room already has monsters in it does the moved monster go to the top or bottom of the battle stack?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fujin View Post
    I disagree with this answer. On page 26 of the rules, under REMOVING TRAPS FROM THE GAME, it says "Do NOT put it [the traps] in the Loot Deck discard pile. If you do, then when the Loot Deck needs to be reshuffled, it will be filled with more traps than Loot!"

    Additionally, not allowing the monster deck to be reshuffled will cause Xykon to be laughably easy, what with having no possibility of support!

    I disagree with this too. Why waste so much loot in Xykon's room when it'll be the first to collapse? You can grab two loot out of it and then its gone. I would say fill loot from top-down, in order to give people a better chance to grab it!
    My understanding, based on the rules, was that you DO reshuffle the Loot and Battle Decks, but not in the middle of a turn. So that if you run out of Monsters in the middle of filling up a high Battle Size, the deck is not reshuffled until the end of the turn. Same thing with the Loot, which would mean that when the Monsters vanish with Xykon's death, you deal out Loot into the dungeon until the current deck runs out, then you're done. This one will need further behind-the-scenes consultation, though.

    You do, however, deal Loot from the bottom of the dungeon up when it collapses, to prevent people from hanging around the Entrance to grab free Loot while someone kills Xykon, then grabbing the bonus for being the first to exit, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by papertygre View Post
    - When can Durkon's healing schtick be used? Does it have to be on Durkon's player's turn? Does it have to be in a particular phase of a turn? Can the player use it when resting, before flipping up all their cards? The rules for schticks don't talk about timing for non-battle schticks, and the text on the schtick itself doesn't either give timing requirements or say "anytime".
    Cure Additional Wounds can be used at any time. Note, however, that if Durkon is fleeing the dungeon, he cannot heal himself until after he has reached the Dungeon Entrance. He could still heal others, however.

    Also, you can't flip the shtick between the time you learn you are losing your last Wound and the time you actually lose it, or any other silly ways of trying to retroactively prevent fleeing the dungeon. Use common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by papertygre View Post
    - How many assistance-for-loot proposals can be extended by a player for a particular battle? The rules don't seem to say, but we thought we found some wording that implied that only one other character can assist in a single battle. However, the wording of one of the answers in the FAQ at http://www.apegames.com/oots/oots-dod/OOTSDoD-FAQ.pdf as of 10/25/2006 suggests that multiple players can assist.
    You may ask for assistance from any number of players, except those who you are battling in Player vs. Player combat, obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rysith View Post
    With regards to ranged attacks:

    I played Vaarsuvias in our 1st game and noted that the Fireball schtick had a range of 4. I went to use this on a monster with a range <4. How does the monster defend?

    We played it that the monster was effectively "fighting with no schticks" so therefore as monster's don't roll a defense roll, I would win automatically. The only monsters that had a chance when their range was <0 were any with the "Tricky" ability which then gave them a Defense score of "10" as per the "Tricky" ability to give them +10 (so 0 from lack of range +10 for "Tricky" = 10 total Defense.)

    Is this the right way Fireball and any other ranged attacks work against monsters? Some players argued it was too powerful that I could automatically kill these monsters, my argument was that I had to rest after each fight of this type to recover the then flipped Fireball schtick
    No, you are playing this incorrectly.

    A Monster attacked at Range that cannot respond still has a Defense score, and you must still beat that Defense score with your die-roll-plus-Attack. The only difference is in what happens if you FAIL to defeat the Monster. If you lose a battle against a Monster without sufficient Range to fight back, you suffer no ill effects. You don't lose a Wound or get paralyzed or anyhting else; it's treated like a draw.

    Incidentally, based on your question, I can see that you are playing the rules on battling without a shtick incorrectly, too. If a player battles without a shtick, they do NOT lose automatically. They still roll the die, they just don't get to add bonus to that roll. A win by a player without a shtick does not defeat a Monster, it counts as a draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    What I'd like to know about area effects is if you can target monsters in more than one room. Lets say V has a boosted fireball that targets four monsters and there are two rooms of two monsters within range. In our games we have assumed that V targets a room rather than stacked targets.
    No, you can only target Monsters in one room at a time. If you can taget more Monsters than there are occupants in the room, the excess are wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    Also turn undead is an area effect, when you use it do you need to find the highest att/def value in the monster stack or the highest att/def value of undead in the stack?
    Just the undead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    If it's just the undead is Xykon included when attempting to remove his zombie support?
    No, Xykon isn't targeted by Turn Undead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    Use of this area effect ceases combat? Even if there was only one undead targeted?
    I'm not understanding this question, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon1200 View Post
    1. What would happen if while a player is asking for assistance in battle i used dun dun DUN!!!! to flip the Battle Shtick they chose to use in that battle?
    They can choose another shtick before they roll the die. If they don't have another shtick available, they must battle without one.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon1200 View Post
    2. If i sucessfully use Poorly-Planned Illusion and choose to move the monster into the next room, if that room already has monsters in it does the moved monster go to the top or bottom of the battle stack?
    Top.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    My understanding, based on the rules, was that you DO reshuffle the Loot and Battle Decks, but not in the middle of a turn.
    Right. I looked this up after I responded (I should have done those steps in the reverse order.) In all of the testing and demos that I've done, this situation hasn't arisen, though one of the other playtesters (Krago on this forum) said that he'd seen it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    My understanding, based on the rules, was that you DO reshuffle the Loot and Battle Decks, but not in the middle of a turn. So that if you run out of Monsters in the middle of filling up a high Battle Size, the deck is not reshuffled until the end of the turn. Same thing with the Loot, which would mean that when the Monsters vanish with Xykon's death, you deal out Loot into the dungeon until the current deck runs out, then you're done. This one will need further behind-the-scenes consultation, though.

    You do, however, deal Loot from the bottom of the dungeon up when it collapses, to prevent people from hanging around the Entrance to grab free Loot while someone kills Xykon, then grabbing the bonus for being the first to exit, too.
    Hmmm. Nasty thought.... You take on Xykon, with a huge stack of monsters under him. You manage to win, and Xykon dies and drops loot. His whole 'support stack' of monsters vanishes, and also drops loot. Can you then play 'Gimme Gimme GIMME' and take the huge stack of loot? Or does 'ggG' not work because you didn't defeat the last monster - it just vanished?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moebius View Post
    Hmmm. Nasty thought.... You take on Xykon, with a huge stack of monsters under him. You manage to win, and Xykon dies and drops loot. His whole 'support stack' of monsters vanishes, and also drops loot. Can you then play 'Gimme Gimme GIMME' and take the huge stack of loot? Or does 'ggG' not work because you didn't defeat the last monster - it just vanished?
    Monsters that are discarded do not count towards being the last Monster in the room; they are treated as simply never having been there at all. If you defeat one or more Monsters in a room, and then any or all remaining Monsters are discarded by any effect, you are considered to have defeated the last Monster in the room that was available to battle, and may pick up your 2 Loot for defeating the last Monster. Therefore, yes, you would be able to use Gimme Gimme GIMME after killing Xykon by virtue of having beat the last Monster that you could battle on that turn in that room.

    Note that this principle extends to any effect that discards Monsters...If you are in a room with 2 Monsters, and you beat the first one in battle but used the Muskrat 3000 Loot card effect to discard the second one, you still defeated the last Monster in battle in that room and can pick up 2 Loot that turn. However, if you are in a room with 1 Monster and use the Muskrat 3000 to discard it, you didn't defeat ANY Monsters at all, and do not qualify to pick up 2 Loot.
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  18. - Top - End - #228
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    What happens if a player used Muskrat 3000 to discard Xyklon?

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by chindogu View Post
    What happens if a player used Muskrat 3000 to discard Xyklon?
    One of the other players opens the rulebook to page 30 and points out that the Xykon Special ability includes "cannot be discarded by any effect (other than beating in battle)".

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    Quote Originally Posted by chindogu View Post
    What happens if a player used Muskrat 3000 to discard Xyklon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    One of the other players opens the rulebook to page 30 and points out that the Xykon Special ability includes "cannot be discarded by any effect (other than beating in battle)".
    Exactly. Xykon cannot be discarded by the Muskrat 3000, or any effect other than defeating him in battle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uthrac View Post
    (2) Depends on your Durkon strategy. :)
    (a) When all three are unflipped, it's certainly in Durkon's favor to use it on himself. And although you MAY accept any loot, there's nothing wrong with &quot;holding out&quot; for a good loot offer . . . (i.e. I'll cure your 3 assorted wounds . . . what exactly are you offering?) [As Durkon, I feel it's okay to &quot;insist&quot; that the drool factor of the loot offered equal the number of wounds healed.]
    (b) Although it may seem out of character, if players are being stingy with their loot-for-healing, there's nothing wrong with &quot;teaming up&quot; with Belkar to keep that healing in high demand. ;)
    2a doesn't seem legal. The card seems to indicate that healing occurs before the loot is handed over. The player being healed can verbally say they'll give you a Drool loot, and then give you something else.
    Basically, in order, asks if he can heal . either says Yes or No. If says yes, then is healed. then must hand a loot card.
    How I read it anyways.
    Wik

    : Change of plans. Let's get involved.
    : I just want to be clear on the rules here since I'm just a big dumb fighter.
    : Well, I do feel more intimidating...
    : Wow, that is such a stupid idea, I feel dumber just hearing it.

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    I have a couple of questions regarding the shtick Gratuitous Nudity. If you play a Monster on yourself, do you have to close your own eyes? Also, what does it mean by saying that it counts as a match for the Hide shtick?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikkin View Post
    2a doesn't seem legal. The card seems to indicate that healing occurs before the loot is handed over. The player being healed can verbally say they'll give you a Drool loot, and then give you something else.
    Basically, in order, asks if he can heal . either says Yes or No. If says yes, then is healed. then must hand a loot card.
    How I read it anyways.
    Yes, that's correct. Elan can tell Durkon that he's giving him Loot Durkon Drools Over, but he is not required to show Durkon that Loot, and he is not required to tell the truth. Even if he does show Durkon a Drool Loot, Elan can give Durkon any Loot in his hand when the deal is done. Basically, while Durkon can try to judge whether or not the players will lie to him, there's nothing preventing them from giving him whatever Loot they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    I have a couple of questions regarding the shtick Gratuitous Nudity. If you play a Monster on yourself, do you have to close your own eyes?
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    Also, what does it mean by saying that it counts as a match for the Hide shtick?
    It means that it Boosts the Hide shtick. Earlier rules incarnations used the word "match" for "boost" and we forgot to change that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Yup.



    It means that it Boosts the Hide shtick. Earlier rules incarnations used the word "match" for "boost" and we forgot to change that one.
    Thanks Giant.
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  25. - Top - End - #235
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    Some questions that have come up in my games:

    1) The Eternal Gratitude card states to "Choose any one player that assisted you. You may keep the Loot Card that you originally offered to that player. You now owe them nothing for their assistance." I assume this means that, even if you were offering multiple pieces of loot to a player, you get to keep all of them (as opposed to just one)? Also, the card states to "choose one player". Can it be used on NPC Players as well as human ones?

    2) If a player begins his or her turn in a room with monsters, and chooses not to move, does the top monster on the battle stack attack?

    3) May players ask for assistance when performing ranged attacks?

    4) If a player has defeated all the monsters in a room, may he continue fighting against a player (as if that player were a monster)?

    5) When fleeing the dungeon, should players observe the effects of rooms that affect movement? For example, a fleeing player passes through a Dark Room. Does he have to stop there, or can he run though because he is fleeing?

    Thanks!

  26. - Top - End - #236
    Pixie in the Playground
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    I've had the Dungeons of Dorukan game for a few weeks now but only noticed that this forum existed, like, now (which is odd, because I'm sure I've looked at least once), so I'd like to apologize to The Giant for emailing him with questions about the board game instead of just posting them here.

    But anyway:

    1) There's no upper limit on the bonus that a single character can give you from assistance, right? So if I give NPC Vaarsuvius ten faces worth of loot I get a whopping +20 bonus for a battle?

    2) The game manual says that you can equip or unequip loot at the beginning or end of your turn. Can you equip/unequip at the beginning AND end of your turn? It seems that if you can, the optimal loot strategy is to equip everything at the beginning of your turn, kick a lot of ass, immediately unequip everything at the end of your turn so that no one else can steal it from you, and repeat. After all, there are very few pieces of loot that are actually advantageous to have equipped during downtime, and you can just leave those on anyway. Is this how it's supposed to work?

  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrinus View Post
    1) There's no upper limit on the bonus that a single character can give you from assistance, right? So if I give NPC Vaarsuvius ten faces worth of loot I get a whopping +20 bonus for a battle?
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrinus View Post
    2) The game manual says that you can equip or unequip loot at the beginning or end of your turn. Can you equip/unequip at the beginning AND end of your turn? It seems that if you can, the optimal loot strategy is to equip everything at the beginning of your turn, kick a lot of ass, immediately unequip everything at the end of your turn so that no one else can steal it from you, and repeat. After all, there are very few pieces of loot that are actually advantageous to have equipped during downtime, and you can just leave those on anyway. Is this how it's supposed to work?
    That's essentially true, but not in the spirit of the game. We may add to the FAQ that anything equipped on your turn cannot be unequipped that same turn.
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  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrismith View Post
    1) The Eternal Gratitude card states to "Choose any one player that assisted you. You may keep the Loot Card that you originally offered to that player. You now owe them nothing for their assistance." I assume this means that, even if you were offering multiple pieces of loot to a player, you get to keep all of them (as opposed to just one)? Also, the card states to "choose one player". Can it be used on NPC Players as well as human ones?
    Yes and Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrismith View Post
    2) If a player begins his or her turn in a room with monsters, and chooses not to move, does the top monster on the battle stack attack?
    No, you attack the top monster, not the other way around. And this is not optional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrismith View Post
    3) May players ask for assistance when performing ranged attacks?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrismith View Post
    4) If a player has defeated all the monsters in a room, may he continue fighting against a player (as if that player were a monster)?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrismith View Post
    5) When fleeing the dungeon, should players observe the effects of rooms that affect movement? For example, a fleeing player passes through a Dark Room. Does he have to stop there, or can he run though because he is fleeing?
    Yes, you still observe room effects. This is a good one for the FAQ.
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  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    If you are forced to miss a turn in a room with monsters, say from paralysis, do you still have to battle them after you missed your go?
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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Star View Post
    If you are forced to miss a turn in a room with monsters, say from paralysis, do you still have to battle them after you missed your go?
    You don't need to battle the monster on the turn that you missed while being paralyzed. On your next turn, after your through being paralyzed, you are still not forced to attack that monster - you can always move out of the room. If you stay in the room, though, you must attack that monster.
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