Feats for a Druid

[theonesin]

In the Evil campaign we recently started, I decided to play a Druid for the first time ever. But because of time constraints, I never got to pick out my feats(though the battles we got into we easy enough without them for me).

My character is currently level 6 and took the Shapeshifter variant(I didn't want to deal with an animal companion), with 6 feats to choose(1 for a new character, 1 for being human, 2 from levels, and 2 from flaws), and my stats are 14, 13, 12, 11, 11, 11(yes, I know they are crappy, but I haven't been able to get a hold of the DM to ask for a reroll).

Help?

[Saph]

Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning are the obvious starters. Normally I'd recommend Companion Spellbond/Natural Bond, but you haven't got a companion, so they're out. You can take Natural Spell at 6th.

That still leaves 3 spare feats which are pretty much up to you. Track is handy if you haven't got a Ranger. Improved Toughness will help bump up your mediocre HP score. Craft Wondrous Item can be useful if you have a lot of downtime.

In your case I'd recommend going the Summoning route, since with your low physical stats you won't do well in melee.

- Saph

[monty]

Do you need Natural Spell with the shapeshift variant?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning are the obvious starters. Normally I'd recommend Companion Spellbond/Natural Bond, but you haven't got a companion, so they're out. You can take Natural Spell at 6th.

That still leaves 3 spare feats which are pretty much up to you. Track is handy if you haven't got a Ranger. Improved Toughness will help bump up your mediocre HP score. Craft Wondrous Item can be useful if you have a lot of downtime.

You'll actually be okay with those stats. Druids can manage with weaker ability scores than any other class in the game - put your top score in Wisdom and your second-highest in Con, and you'll be okay.

Shapeshift. No Wildshape, no Natural Spell. Get a re-roll. Without at least 15 in your casting stat...just re-roll.

[theonesin]

Natural Spell does not work with the Shapeshifter variant.

[Saph]

Shapeshift. No Wildshape, no Natural Spell. Get a re-roll. Without at least 15 in your casting stat...just re-roll.

Oh yeah, forgot. That leaves you another spare feat, then.

By the book, you're not allowed a re-roll unless your highest stat is 13 or under (which the OP's isn't). You can still manage with a 14 Wis - druids don't use Save DCs for much anyway.

- Saph

PS - C'mon, the stats stuff was up there for maybe 30 seconds before I edited it out. Give me a chance. :P

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Oh yeah, forgot. That leaves you another spare feat, then.

By the book, you're not allowed a re-roll unless your highest stat is 13 or under (which the OP's isn't). You can still manage with a 14 Wis - druids don't use Save DCs for much anyway.

- Saph

Total modifier of +4.

[theonesin]

Like I was saying, I don't know if I can get a reroll at all(or even in time for the game tonight). I can't reroll on my own because the DM wanted us to roll our stats in front of him, and like I said, I haven't been able to get a hold of him.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Middle Age and 4th level point: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 12, no need to reroll.

I would strongly recommend getting the animal companion. It's one of the most powerful things about the Druid class, and will probably be the best combatant in the party. Take the feat Natural Bond (CV) and get a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), you'll get to count your whole Druid level for its extra HD and other benefits. Give it Ability Focus: Poison and Virulent Poison (SS), maybe Power Attack and Leap Attack afterward. Every encounter of a single big bruiser monster will have to be two of them instead, because that thing will solo one of them.

For your feats, Natural Spell at 6 is set in stone for every Druid who can Wild Shape. You should get Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, maybe get Imbued Summoning (PH2) and Metamagic School Focus (CM) and use Enrage Animal (SC) for the attached buff. That leaves your level 3 feat, which should be Natural Bond because you don't want to give up that animal companion. What evil character wouldn't want a salivating, poison-soaked, flesh eating dinosaur to sic on his enemies?

Get a Lesser Rod of Extend to use with Greater Magic Fang (+1 to all) on your companion, and prepare Creeping Cold twice for the other two daily uses.

[Saph]

Total modifier of +4.

I know. Still doesn't allow you a re-roll. Has to be less than +1 for that, if I remember right.

- Saph

[theonesin]

I know an animal companion can be powerful(in a previous campaign, the druid's wolf was stronger than my fighter...), but I still consider myself a relative newbie at DnD and feel like it would be too much work right now trying to effectively keep track of two characters at once.

[mikethepoor]

OP, is that 14 a natural die roll or the result of applying your level-up point at 4th level?

[theonesin]

The stats I posted are what I rolled.

[Tokiko Mima]

If you get a re-roll, see if you can get him to use a "roll 3d6 six times and arrange as necessary, counting the lowest die result as if it was a 6" method. It rolls consistently usable stats with good odds of producing at least one exceptional ability.

[theonesin]

Well, I don't remember exactly how he did it, but for our stats he had us rolling 4 d8's, once for each stat. I don't know how he combined them, but I rolled at least one 1 each time.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your stats would be fine if you were going to get Wild Shape. I'd recommend taking the Druidic Avenger variant instead of Shapeshifter. That way your intolerable physical stats get replaced by those of your current form, plus you get Rage and Fast Movement. You can also make use of Natural Spell, and feats like Extra Rage.

Like I said, start out Middle Age and with your 4th level point you've got Str 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 12.

[theonesin]

Like I've said, I haven't played Druids before, and during our character-creation session(the one where I was rushed and couldn't pick my feats), the DM, another player, and I were discussing for a while which would be better: Wild Shape, or Shapeshifting. I kept thinking that if went with Wild Shape (I'd have taken Druidic Avenger with it), that I'd be stuck with nothing to do once I used up my Wild Shapes and Rages.

[monty]

Like I've said, I haven't played Druids before, and during our character-creation session(the one where I was rushed and couldn't pick my feats), the DM, another player, and I were discussing for a while which would be better: Wild Shape, or Shapeshifting. I kept thinking that if went with Wild Shape (I'd have taken Druidic Avenger with it), that I'd be stuck with nothing to do once I used up my Wild Shapes and Rages.

At level 6, you'll have 2 wildshapes per day for 12 hours total. Assuming you rest for 8 hours every day, that's only 4 hours where you would be without it (at level 7, you can be in wildshape for the whole adventuring day, and at 8, you can keep it up 24/7). And you still have spellcasting, remember.

[theonesin]

I've also never played a caster who had to prepare spells before either.


On another note, and I don't know if it matters, but the rest of the party is made up of the following:

Dread Necromancer (is that a Prestige Class? I think he's just a Sorcerer until then)

Barbarian

And another Druid (going, or I think he reached it now, Blighter)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ugh. Odd party. Dread Necros(base class, but spontaneous like a sorc) and Barbarians are great out of the box, Shapeshift Druids and Blighters are nerfed.

[monty]

I've also never played a caster who had to prepare spells before either.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ineCasters.htm

Not the strongest variant, but much less paperwork.

[theonesin]

I didn't know when we were discussing the benefits and drawbacks of Wild Shape vs. Shapeshift that Wild Shape could be used that often. The way we were looking at it was that Wild Shape would be used up in like one battle and then I'd be stuck without much to do since Druids can't cast as many spells. I wasn't aware that you got that many more uses of it and for increasing amounts of time.


I really wish I could start my character over now...

[KIDS]

Since you have a dex score of 13, you could build around the bonus "virtual" feats that you get in shapeshift forms. Perhaps something like:

1. Spell Focus: Conjuration
1B. Augment Summoning
3. Dodge
4. (bonus Mobility while in Predator Form)
6. Spring Attack

If you don't like that chain, maybe you could instead take Track and Improved Toughness for a more general ability. Improved Grapple, Improved Natural Attack (Bite) or Power Attack are also good. Consider dipping Monk (better) or Ninja (ok) for Wis to AC bonus and sudden strike/unarmed damage/flurry.
Wild Cohort (requires lvl 3+) can get you back an animal companion if you want one.

I also want to say that Shapeshift is a great thing and you shouldn't worry about not taking Wild Shape instead. While Wild Shape is a ton more powerful (read: massively overpowered), this one should serve you just fine in a much simpler way - and remember that even without it, you still have the awesome power of 9 levels of full casting behind you.

If your wisdom score is ever too low for casting spells of that level, multiclass into something melee oriented like Barbarian. Rage fits with animal forms anyway.

Also check out Shapeshift druid's optimization handbook at WotC forums.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dread Necromancer is a base class from Heroes of Horror. Good for debuffing and summoning/creating undead minions. Amazing if you stack fear effects, as in capable of soloing entire adventures. I'd say take the feat Tomb-Tainted Soul from Libris Mortis and designate him as the "party healer" since he can do an infinite amount of negative energy curing between encounters and spontaneously casts Inflict spells. He'll probably take that feat too if he's not making a Necropolitan, so he's likely to go that route for his own benefit anyway.

Blighter is a horrible class in general IMO, just because of the prerequisites. Maybe if you Theurge it with something that will keep you viable it would be decent, but as it is he'd be better off going with Ur-Priest. The Deforestation requirement alone makes it unplayable for a PC, all of its abilities appear geared toward posing a threat to PCs rather than going adventuring. Seriously, when is a PC Blighter going to ever use the Unbond ability? He would be much better off using the Hunter Druid variant and taking Walker in the Waste from Sandstorm. A Druid 5 can qualify for it with only one feat, and he could make Sand Golem and Salt Mummy minions.


As for your character, the Shapeshifter variant is something that DMs force Druids to use to make the class less powerful. Wild Shape is infinitely better, especially with those ability scores. For your spells, just get stuff that will take care of what melee attacks can't handle. Good spells would include Entangle, Barkskin, Produce Flame (delivered via natural weapons), Bull's Strength, Splinterbolt (SC), (Extended) Creeping Cold (SC), Call Lightning, Daylight, Stone Shape, and the various Summon Nature's Ally spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I didn't know when we were discussing the benefits and drawbacks of Wild Shape vs. Shapeshift that Wild Shape could be used that often. The way we were looking at it was that Wild Shape would be used up in like one battle and then I'd be stuck without much to do since Druids can't cast as many spells. I wasn't aware that you got that many more uses of it and for increasing amounts of time.


I really wish I could start my character over now...

Show up to the game with a Druidic Avenger instead of a Shapeshifter. If they ask about it, say you were initially tricked into going with the crappy Shapeshifter variant and you've changed your mind.

[Leon]

Show up to the game with a Druidic Avenger instead of a Shapeshifter. If they ask about it, say you were initially tricked into going with the crappy Shapeshifter variant and you've changed your mind.

That is but your opinion, i can happily say the same for a Core druid - only thing useful to me on a Core Druid is spell casting and maybe a companion

Shapeshift is in particular good for someone newish to the game and not used to the staggering array of choice that is open to a Wildshape Druid.
It keeps it simple a smooth with a Set Forms that are expanded upon as you progress in level

[Tempest Fennac]

Coincidentally, I was thinking of starting a similar thread due to having problems picking feats for my Shapeshifter Druid: http://mydndgame.com/?action=charact...&character=294 (I picked this version because I didn't want the book-keeping which normal Druids have, and I wanted to play as a less broken version of the class, so I'm not going to change Dax from being a Shapeshifter). I disagree about this version being a poor choice as well (so far, I've been useful in combat). I was thinking of taking Scribe scroll for storing spells like Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison which I won't need that often at level 3. Would this be a good choice? (I want to keep the Beast Totem (Displacer Beast) feat due to how many spells it works with (admittedly, the DM said he isn't planning on using many spellcasters, so I may change it).

[theonesin]

Luckily, we didn't play the Evil campaign tonight.

Anyway, my DM has allowed me to make a new character, and I actually rolled good stats this time: 17, 15, 14, 13, 12, 12. I'm thinking that I will still play a Druid, but will go with using Wild Shape as normal, and will give a try at using an animal companion. Character is still level 6.

With that said, how can I make the most of this? Where should I put those stats? What feats should I take(again, I'll have 6 to choose)? And are there any worthwhile Prestige Classes to go for?

[Tempest Fennac]

For stats, I'd personally go for Wis, Con, Int, Str, Dex, Cha in that order. (A lot of people would recommend starting at Middle Age or Ol dfor the mental stats, but I never liked that approach due to thinking that you should be Epic level by 34 if you're adventuring, and physical stats may have a use in come cases). Feat-wise, Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning are useful if you intend to use a lot of Summon Nature's Ally spells, Augment Healing could be useful for boosting your healing ability, and you may want to look at page 153 of http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf if you want some extra spell options. Ashbound is great for Summoning as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Str 13, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 12, counting 4th level point on Wis.

2 flaws: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning
Human: Augment Healing
1st: Companion Spellbond
3rd: Natural Bond
6th: Natural Spell

13,000 gp:
Periapt of Wisdom +2 (4k)
Lesser Rod of Extend (3k)
Ring of Protection +1 (2k)
Wand of Lesser Vigor (750)
Gloves of the Starry Sky (1100) (MIC p204)
Handy Haversack (2k)
150 gp remaining for miscellaneous gear

Spells Prepared (5/5/4/3), DC 15 + Spell Level
0- Dawn (SC), Create Water, Light, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic
1- Entangle x2, Produce Flame, Wall of Smoke, Enrage Animal (SC)
2- Mass Snake's Swiftness (SC), Splinterbolt (SC), Creeping Cold x2 (SC)
3- Greater Magic Fang, Cure Moderate Wounds, Blindsight (SC)

Switch out spells prepared to summon a Lion or Black Bear, and cast Enrage Animal on it (don't concentrate for duration). Enrage Animal is also a useful buff for your animal companion, get a few more prepared if you end up wanting to use it more often. The Wand of Lesser Vigor heals 11 hp/charge over 11 rounds, great for healing up between encounters.

Animal Companion:

Spoiler

Show

{table]Fleshraker Dinosaur
Size/Type Medium Animal
Hit Dice (HP) 8d8+16 (52)
Initiative +5
Speed 50'
Armor Class 25 (+5 Dex, +10 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple +6/+10
Attack* Claw +11 melee (1d6+5 and poison)
Full Attack* 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+5 plus poison) and bite
+6 melee (1d6+3) and tail +6 melee (1d6+3 plus poison)
Space/Reach 5'/5'
Special Attacks Leaping pounce, poison, rake 1d6+3
Special Qualities Low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion, devotion
Saves Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +4
Abilities Str 19, Dex 21, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills Hide +17 (+19 in forested areas), Jump +25
Feats Improved Natural Attack (claw), Track, Virulent Poison[/table]
*counting a +1 Enhancement from Extended Greater Magic Fang
It cannot use its tail and bite attacks against the same opponent in one round.

Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 18, initial damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d6 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based.