Opinion about Psions

[herrhauptmann]

I'm going to ask an opinion question, and I'm also going to ask people to keep it simple. Please don't spend 20+ posts arguing and killing catgirls.

What would you say is the best race for psions? One of my DMs has a very particular opinion, and I'm wondering who here agrees with him.

Remember, this isn't about bashing each other and nit-picking. What is the best psionic race?

[The Glyphstone]

Elans are the classic. Psions don't care about the CHA penalty, and the various bonus things they can do with their zillions of PP are incredibly handy at times.

Failing that, Dromites aren't bad, and Humans are always a good fallback.

[SoD]

Thri-keen! Who can say no to a giant four armed grasshopper?

[The Glyphstone]

Thri-keen! Who can say no to a giant four armed grasshopper?

Someone who doesn't want to be stuck with a painful +4 ECL before any class levels? Thri-Keen make excellent PsiWarriors, but very poor Psions. Remember, Thou Shall Not Lose CasterManifester Levels (though to be fair, Psions miss out on far less broken uberness in their 9th level picks than spellcasters do.

Not to mention the INT penalty thri-keen have.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's no "best" race for anything, it all depends on the character and the type of game. Strong choices would include Elan for survival, Human or Strongheart Halfling for the bonus feat, Gnome, Dwarf, Water Halfling, or Whisper Gnome for the Con bonus, Grey Elf for the Int bonus and racial proficiencies, and maybe a Dragonborn of Bahamut for the Con and miscellaneous bonuses. Small size is good, Int and Con bonuses are good, bonus feats are good, and specific racial abilities are good, same for any Int-based primary caster.

[arguskos]

I'd go with Thri-Kreen... if we were talking about Psionic Warriors. Psions... I'd probably say that Elans, Dromites, and/or Humans are the better picks in general.

Though, I AM disappointed that no one said Mind Flayer. Come on guys! Ya'll are letting me down.

[RTGoodman]

I agree with most everyone so far - I think Elans and Humans are always good choices, as are most Int-bonus races.

Here's a related question - I know Complete Psionic has a new race called the Synad that is sort of a three-in-one person. I don't have the book (I hate it when people never return borrowed things ), but what's the general opinion on them? I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about them, but from what I remember the fluff, at least, seemed kinda cool.

[herrhauptmann]

There's no "best" race for anything,

I agree with you there. It's all about how you want to play.

I personally think that a Thri-kreen would be uber powerful with multiweapon fighting. And his racial HD offset the -4 class level (a little). But when transitioning to epic, you don't get your first epic feat until 21st class level, level 25 for the local humans.

I've heard half-giants are uber, same with half mindflayer (can't find them though).

[arguskos]

Half-Giants are in the Expanded Psionic Handbook. Half-Illithid are in the Fiend Folio.

Half-Giants are... pretty powerful, actually. They make good melee characters. Half-Illithid... are meh? I've never used them, so I know little about them. I guess they could be pretty fun though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I agree with you there. It's all about how you want to play.

I personally think that a Thri-kreen would be uber powerful with multiweapon fighting. And his racial HD offset the -4 class level (a little). But when transitioning to epic, you don't get your first epic feat until 21st class level, level 25 for the local humans.

I've heard half-giants are uber, same with half mindflayer (can't find them though).

The Nonpsionic version of Thri-Kreen only has a +1 LA instead of +2, for a starting ECL 3 instad of 4. The only difference is they lose the bonus powerpoints and psi-like abilities, definitely worth it, they're found in MM2 and Shining South. I've found the best use of Thri-Kreen is a LA +1/ HD 2/ Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow, using Zen Archery to be SAD for Wis and (Improved, Greater) Multiweapon Fighting to fire Mind Arrows with each hand.

Half-Illithid is in Underdark and Fiend Folio, and it's not a great choice for a PC. The Psionic Mind Flayer from XPH gets 9th level Psion (Telepath) manifesting, with 8 racial HD and a +7 LA, so your manifesting is six levels behind your ECL from the start. Unbodied (XPH) is a decent race, it gets 4th level Psion (Telepath) manifesting with 4 HD and +4 LA, plus it's naturally Incorporeal though that may hinder your ability to use gear. Just get Vow of Poverty or take Leadership/Thrallherd and buy your cohort/thralls gear and you're good to go.

[ghost_warlock]

Speaking as an elan psion, I'd have to say that I'm quite pleased with my choice!

Sure, I miss my bonus feat, but my new racials are pretty boss and who can argue with immortality as a racial feature? Cha was never a priority for me, anyway, so I don't mind taking a small hit to that stat.

Furthermore, there's some great support for elans in 3rd-party supplements, if you DM allows them (mine did): Hyperconscious and (especially) Untapped Potential.

[herrhauptmann]

The Nonpsionic version of Thri-Kreen only has a +1 LA instead of +2, for a starting ECL 3 instad of 4.

Yeah, DM's ruling, since he and I both have a copy of Expanded Psionics, I get the 4 level hit even if I don't want use the psionic abilities. That sorta blows right there. Even more so since I've really only paged through the damn thing.

[BobVosh]

Speaking as an elan psion, I'd have to say that I'm quite pleased with my choice!

I KNEW IT! I KNEW D&D WAS REAL! Take THAT dad & mom!

*ahem* I think the feat is better than int bump, just a thought.

[CthulhuM]

Honestly, Thri-Kreen are arguably broken, even at ECL 4 (though, as people have said, obviously not for a psion build). Having two extra arms is an incredibly powerful racial feature, far and away better than anything else you might get at that level range. Just imagine a thri-kreen rogue or shadow blade swordsage. It really shouldn't come as a surprise that builds that are already good with two weapons become completely ridiculous when you just double their number of attacks.

As for the best psion race, I'd have to say it's human, if you're being reasonable, or one of the various random variant races that give +2 Int at 0 LA if you aren't. I would say that Elan are the best, but unfortunately they suffer from the fact that psions actually tend to have a lot they want to do with their swift/immediate actions, which means that oftentimes you won't have the actions ready to use your cool racials. Kalashtar are decent too, if only because their scaling power point bonus is very nice at higher levels, but other than that they're pretty unremarkable.

As for any other races... if it has a level adjustment, it's not an optimal race for a spellcaster of any sort. It's as simple as that, really.

[Salvonus]

From what I know, there isn't a single "best Psion race". However, I can think of a few that are considered pretty good... Here's a mini-guide I did a while back (feel free to add your own comments, everyone). I'm generally assuming straight Psion, mind you - if you're going for Psi-Gish builds, some other races become potentially useful. It's totally unfinished and may be totally inaccurate.

Spoiler

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• Human: The number one rule is basically: Humans rock at anything. No Int bonus, yes; but that bonus feat is quite valuable. I like the skill point, too. There's not much to say about Humans that hasn't been said many times - they're just always a great option. Psions have some pretty cool feats available to them, and, if you're not going pure Psion, that feat helps with meeting requirements for PrCs earlier on.
  
  Note: Psychic Reformation (a 3rd Level Power) will let you retrain that Bonus Feat for a moderate investment of XP. So, really, that feat is even MORE useful to a Psion.
  
  Best Disciplines: Any. All disciplines will benefit from an extra feat.

• Strongheart Halfling: See above. Bonus feats are awesome. Strongheart Halfling might just edge out Human, given that small size is generally seen as a benefit for a Psion.

• Kalashtar^{Races of Eberron/Eberron Campaign Setting}: Kalashtar get the most bonus PP due to race amongst all the Psionic races. Well, at level 1, they're technically behind the Elan, but after that, they're tops. 1 PP per character level means that you basically always get an extra fully augmented power per day - that's absolutely awesome. While Psions aren't as powerful as Wizards, that's STILL equivalent to eventually having an extra 9th level spell per day. Compared to a +2 Int race, the Kalashtar still generally comes out ahead in PP/day - the +2 Int race will have 10 less PP per day than the Kalashtar.
  
  Mindlink is a pretty useful ability, all the better since you don't have to burn any of your precious PP on it. Great RP applications in inter-party communications; even dungeoncrawlers will like it, since you can communicate tactical plans with another party member without the enemy hearing you.
  
  
  
  The Racial Substitution Levels^{Races of Eberron} for a Kalashtar Telepath are, in my opinion, decent but not must-haves. They're fairly solid and interesting trades, but you might just want the bonus feats/powers known in some cases. If you plan on using your Mindlink ability a lot, these Racial Sub Levels boost it and give you extra uses.
  
  Best Disciplines: Well, Kalashtar are meant to be Telepaths, and that's probably their best discipline. They've got a useful Telepathy power as a Psi-Like Ability and bonuses to social interaction skills, as well as a bonus vs. mind-affecting effects - really, they're made for the Telepathy discipline. Still, they're solid all-rounders, what with their extra PP.

• Warforged ^{Races of Eberron/Eberron Campaign Setting/Monster Manual III}: Seriously. No ASF means that you can stack on Adamantine Body^{Races of Eberron} for awesome AC (and DR!) at Level 1. A multitude of immunities increases your defences quite nicely. The best Warforged Psions are generally Shapers for Psionic Repair Damage (a great PP-to-HP healer), but you can also get that through an Expanded Knowledge feat. Warforged Egoists are also great, since you're allowed to use Construct forms with Metamorphosis; with Metamorphic Transfer, that can potentially open up some awesome abilities. As with the Shapers, you can get Metamorphosis through Expanded Knowledge, though. Note, however, that Metamorphic Transfer requires 13 Wis, so that racial penalty might cause you some problems.
  
  There's also the Psiforged Body^{Magic of Eberron} feat which gives you the ability to store some PP in your body as if you were a Cognizance Crystal. It improves as you level, but I think the DR and AC of Adamantine Body is just way better. If your DM plays with Flaws^UA, you MAY be able to convince him to allow you to use both - thematically, it's possible for both to coexist. RAW, though, they're both Body feats and must be taken at first level - so, you have to choose between the two, generally speaking.
  
  Best Disciplines: Egoist and Shaper. All of them are great options, but you'll probably want Psionic Repair Damage and Metamorphosis. Telepath might be the weakest path for a Warforged due to the Charisma penalty, but you're still pretty damn solid.

• Elan: I'd say they're good, but I dunno about "best". Still, very solid option - the extra 2 PP is much-needed at low levels, and their racial abilities increase your survivability considerably. You DO burn through a lot of PP if you depend on them a bit too much, though. For low levels, they probably surpass Humans just 'cause of their survivability and initial PP boost; later on, I'm not sure their abilities scale quite as well as some of the other races.
  
  Aberration type is also useful, but not near as good as the Warforged's Living Construct type. Abberation is not a barred type for Metamorphosis, so you don't gain any new forms by going the Elan route. You don't get too many boosts - basically, just immunity to spells that target humanoids.
  
  Best Disciplines: Any. They're not natural Telepaths due to their Cha penalty, but they're really not that bad. Everything else, they're pretty good at.

• Grey Elf (or Sun Elf^{Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting}): The main advantage here is that +2 Int - quite useful for getting extra PP and boosting your save DCs. The disadvantage, of course, is that Con penalty.
  
  The Martial Weapon Proficiency is useful, but I think the other races have far better special abilities. If you go Grey Elf, you're basically going that route for the +2 Int with no level adjustment. The skill boosts are useful for a Seer, of course - about equal to how good the Kalashtar's skill boosts are for a Telepath, I'd say.
  
  Best Disciplines: As with so many of these races, all of them work quite well. The extra PP and boost on Save DCs might be most attractive to Telepaths, given that they are pretty dependent on boosting DCs and most powers don't have great DC augmentation. Still, there's not a single discipline at which the Elf does not do well - just don't get too close to melee if your Con is bad.
  Dragonborn Pseudo-Template^{Races of the Dragon}: This is just a special mention - tacking on the Dragonborn template to the Grey Elf basically leaves you with +2 Int, -2 Str, probably the most optimal stat adjustments possible for a Psion. I always find the flavour of this a bit "bleh" (Elves going Dragonborn makes very little sense to me), but it's a powerful option from an optimisation perspective.

Unfinished:
Venerable (Aging Rules) Dragonwrought^{Races of the Dragon} Kobold - Basically, +3 to all mental stats.

Synad^{Complete Psionic} - Decent bonus PP at level 1, decent racial abilities. Arguably around Elan level.

Necropolitan^{Libris Mortis} - Undead type for Metamorphosis forms. d12 hit dice and no Constitution dependence. Myriad of Undead Immunities. Downside: Temporarily lose a level/XP, but can get that back through accelerated leveling thanks to being a level lower.

Lesser Planetouched^{Player's Guide to Faerun} - Lesser Fire Genasi, Lesser Air Genasi, and Lesser Tiefling all get Int boosts. Lesser Aasimar is decent too, since Cha and Wis can both be useful to a Psion.

Deep Imaskari^Underdark - Int boost, but spell recovery ability totally useless. Grey Elf better.

Whisper Gnomes^{Races of Stone} - Small Size, Con Bonus, High Speed for size. Cha penalty, but that's not an amazingly big issue. Great choice.

Quick rundown of some other races in the SRD:

• Dromites: LA +1? Not worth it at all for a Psion. They're more of a Wilder race for sure - and I'm not even sure they're worth the LA then.

• Duergar: Not a great Psion race. LA +1 for virtually nothing of use to a Psion, basically.

• Half-Giants: Great for Psychic Warriors. For a straight Psion, not really worth it. For a Psion-based Gish (fighter-manifester hybrid), they're a decent choice, but I'm not convinced they're the absolute best - especially when you consider that Metamorphosis replaces physical stats with those of the form assumed. However, if Powerful Build stacks with a change in form from Metamorphosis (check with your DM, it's a grey area [I think]), then it really IS quite useful.

• Maened: They're not bad, but I'd say there's better choices. Their PP bonus is on par with an Elan's, and they don't have any racial stat penalty. However, their special abilities are kinda mediocre for a Psion. The energy ray is okay, but it's only augmented to half your hit dice. Outburst isn't very useful for a Psion - in fact, it's kinda harmful to be penalising your intelligence. All in all, more of a Wilder race.

• Xeph: I'd rate them as solid, but not spectacular. One bonus PP is okay, as is their Burst ability. Decent stat adjustments, since Dexterity is more useful to a Psion than Strength. They might just edge out Dwarves and Gnomes, depending on how highly you value a Constitution bonus.

• Dwarf: Solid option, but not as good as some others. Constitution bonus is good, but the rest of the racial abilities might see a bit less play than would be preferred.

• Elf: Nothing special. Grey Elf over this every single time, unless you have flavour reasons for wanting to play a "normal" Elf. I dunno, though, Grey Elves are more "Elfy" to me.

• Gnome: Yet another for the "solid" list, Gnomes still aren't going to be taking home any prizes for "Best Psion Race EVARRR". Most of their abilities are vaguely, but not directly useful for a Psion. Their stat adjustments are arguably superior to a Dwarf, though, and Small size makes these fellows a decent enough choice.

• Half-Elf: They're okay Telepaths skill-wise, but they can't even begin to compare to a Kalashtar. They're probably worse than a straight Elf for a Psion.

• Half-Orc: Eh-heh-heh, no. I may someday play a Half-Orc Psion, but it's the worst PHB race for any self-respecting Psion, without a doubt.

• Halflings: They might lag a little behind Gnomes. No Constitution bonus, but Dexterity's not bad, and +1 to all saves is always useful. Overall, though, a Strongheart Halfling is the best choice for one of the wee folk.

• Drow: That LA +2 kills it. Not. A. Chance.

• Kobold: (NOT Dragonwrought) Passable in a pinch, but maybe one of the worst non-Int penalty SRD races for a Psion.

• Goblin: See Kobold.

• Orc: The worst possible.

• Blue: These SHOULD be LA +0, and they'd be a decent (but probably not top) Psion race if they were. As LA +1, they are a complete waste of time.

• Unbodied: You're going to be 4 levels of Psion behind, so no. Interesting idea in a Gestalt game, though.

• Phrenic Template: This is an awesome template, I must say... This is worth it if you can buy off the LA. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether or not it's worth the +2 LA hit, but it's quite arguable... Psi-Like Abilities are automatically augmented, so the multitude a Phrenic creature gets are all quite powerful in the end.

My favourite race for a Psion is the Exiled Modron that you can find somewhere on Crystalkeep, but that's only 'cause I'm playing one right now. It's not the most powerful, although it's not bad. Warforged is probably a bit better, though, even though the Exiled Modron has an Int bonus. The only thing that I've heard is that the Exiled Modron might actually have a LA of +1 - my DM didn't see it as overpowered for LA +0, though, and, in light of the drawbacks, I'd agree.

[Fishy]

rtg0922 mentioned Synads, and they are pretty neat. It's a little bit lame that they're physically just another 'Human, but with glowy eyeballs' race (Xeph and Illumian, I'm looking at you), but the racial powers are very nice.

Synad Multitask gets you extra actions, and that's always very nice. It's a 1/day thing (2 if you get the Enhanced Multitask feat, which you will), but it's another power manifested in a round, or a concentration check held to keep one power up while you do something else. And if that's not enough, just take the Synchronicity power: 2pp for a free standard action 2/day is not too shabby.

And maybe it's because I'm playing a Synad in a non-psionic class and have nothing better to do with the PP, but the Collective power is more fun than it has any right to be. It's kind of like this.

And hey, if nothing else, 3 racial PP is more than you get from any other LA +0 race, so.

EDIT: Kalashtar and psiforged, duh, nevermind.

[Salvonus]

Actually, I think Synads explicitly can only use that swift action to manifest a power if they don't use any of their other actions in that round to manifest... But I may be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

[ghost_warlock]

Actually, I think Synads explicitly can only use that swift action to manifest a power if they don't use any of their other actions in that round to manifest... But I may be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

Yeah, they have a built-in 'one power per round' thing with it.

That racial always puzzled me, though, because it doesn't say anything about converting a standard-action power to a swift action when you use it to manifest a power. Thus, the way I read it, it simply allows you to use a swift action power as a swift action. Whatever

I liked synads when I first read about them, but I'm not really fond of them anymore. Elans are just much better.

[Fishy]

Hunh. And the examples listed in Complete Psionic are things that don't require actions at all. Didn't notice that one.

And even if it does work, Synchronicity only gives you the ability to attack twice or move a lot- not great for a pure psion.

And if you really like making Knowledge checks, there's that Seer alternate class feature.

[Emperor Tippy]

@Salvonus

You mentioned humans because of their bonus feat, Elves are better. Those racial bonus feats can be converted into real feats for 4,750 GP each (by using Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos).

So all humans get over elves is a bonus skill point every level.

---
Elan Psion is nice, especially if you get the feat that doubles the effectiveness of your Resiliency from 2 HP per PP to 4 HP per PP. And it's an immediate action, which means that it takes next turns swift action (so you can use a swift action this turn and then an immediate action later during the round). This trait makes up for the Psions d4 HD.

Body adjustment costs 5 PP (minimum) and heals 1d12 damage (so 12 max). With the feat it's cheaper to prevent damage than to heal it (and it takes an immediate action instead of a standard action. Even when augmented Resiliency still averages out better (8 per 2 PP vs. 6.5 per 2 PP). Without the feat (Elan Resilience, Enhanced) you average slightly worse (once BA is augmented) but gain the advantage of a shorter manifesting time and the ability to use it when you really need to (that dragon got off a full attack, take 400 damage).

As an added benefit, it let's you impress people. Once I was trying to intimidate a crowd and had the party's ubercharger charge me, burned through most of my PP for the day but it was worth it, and took no damage. The DM ruled that I got a heft circumstance bonus on my intimidate check. As a side effect they thought I was a deity for a while.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Furthermore, there's some great support for elans in 3rd-party supplements, if you DM allows them (mine did): Hyperconscious and (especially) Untapped Potential.

2 Excellent books. I personally like the idea of the specialized Psion options that U/P has. All DMs that allow Psionics should allow these books.

[Salvonus]

@Salvonus

You mentioned humans because of their bonus feat, Elves are better. Those racial bonus feats can be converted into real feats for 4,750 GP each (by using Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos).

So all humans get over elves is a bonus skill point every level.

Well, that's a pretty marginal trick that I forgot about. I'm mostly assuming a semi-optimised (Metamorphosis-using) campaign there, but one without the copious amounts of cheese associated with the Embrace/Shun combo. With Embrace/Shun cheese, Grey Elf becomes the ultimate Psion race - Int bonus PLUS three (if I remember this trick correctly?) bonus feats. Ridiculous.

Actually, thinking of cheese made me think of VOP Warforged Shapers... It's actually a big trap that sounds good, but ultimately falls short. The AC bonus does NOT stack with Adamantine Body, so your AC is going to be worse than a non-VOPer. Ring of Protection +3, Amulet of Natural Armor +2, and a +2 enhancement to your body - for about 30k gold, you've already matched the VOP Warforged AC. Exalted feats aren't very useful for a Psion, either.

Elan Psion is nice, especially if you get the feat that doubles the effectiveness of your Resiliency from 2 HP per PP to 4 HP per PP. And it's an immediate action, which means that it takes next turns swift action (so you can use a swift action this turn and then an immediate action later during the round). This trait makes up for the Psions d4 HD.

True, I forgot about that improved Resiliency feat... I try to ignore Complete Psionic, it's sort of a waste of time for most things. That certainly makes them better than Synads.

Body adjustment costs 5 PP (minimum) and heals 1d12 damage (so 12 max). With the feat it's cheaper to prevent damage than to heal it (and it takes an immediate action instead of a standard action. Even when augmented Resiliency still averages out better (8 per 2 PP vs. 6.5 per 2 PP). Without the feat (Elan Resilience, Enhanced) you average slightly worse (once BA is augmented) but gain the advantage of a shorter manifesting time and the ability to use it when you really need to (that dragon got off a full attack, take 400 damage).

You forget Vigor. 5 temporary HP per PP. Possibly the one must-have 1st level power for every single Psion. Elan Resilience, Enhanced is 4 per PP as an Immediate action - it's not BAD compared to Vigor, given the Immediate action bit. Overall, in combination with Vigor, Enhanced Resilience is very good. Especially at low levels. Later on, Vigor outstrips Elan Resilience a bit, but that immediate action damage reducer can really save your butt.

Wow... Thinking about it from an E6 perspective, the Elan Psion is one of the best characters in the game. Take Psionic Body and Resilience, Enhanced. Now, just keep taking Psionic Talent as you gain more feats. Each time you gain another Psionic Talent feat, you go up by 2 HP, and you ALSO can prevent (theoretically) 4 extra points of damage. With enough Psionic Talents, you basically can ignore damage all day long and STILL have enough PP to manifest more Powers than a Sorcerer can cast spells.

As an added benefit, it let's you impress people. Once I was trying to intimidate a crowd and had the party's ubercharger charge me, burned through most of my PP for the day but it was worth it, and took no damage. The DM ruled that I got a heft circumstance bonus on my intimidate check. As a side effect they thought I was a deity for a while.

Haha, yes, there's also the fun-factor.

[JMobius]

I'd just like to clarify a bit of confusion this thread has caused me in regard to Elan resiliency. My impression was that since it is an immediate action, and you only have one, it can only be used once per round. This makes many situations where absorbing damage "all day long" would be very nice, still not quite safe...

[Mushroom Ninja]

Thri-keen! Who can say no to a giant four armed grasshopper?

Very good, young grasshopper.

[Captain Six]

Yes, I'm pretty sure Elans cannot resist more than 2(or 4) damage per round. I was building an Elan paladin once, the Cha penalty was worth the abilities and access to Psionic feats. I looked it over pretty carefully and if I'm wrong that character is even better now.

[ghost_warlock]

The only thing I really have to say about thri-kreen is that they were better in 2nd Ed.

Spoiler

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Jeral


To'ksa

Yes, I'm pretty sure Elans cannot resist more than 2(or 4) damage per round. I was building an Elan paladin once, the Cha penalty was worth the abilities and access to Psionic feats. I looked it over pretty carefully and if I'm wrong that character is even better now.

It's based on how many power points you spend: 2hp/1pp; or 4hp/1pp if you have the feat.

[Fishy]

So you can spend a bunch of power points in one Resilience use, but you only get one a round. So if the dragon Full-attacks you, and you burn all your pp preventing it, and the kobold immediately beans you in the back of the head with a rock, you're going to feel it.

Except you won't, that's what Vigor is for.

[JMobius]

So you can spend a bunch of power points in one Resilience use, but you only get one a round. So if the dragon Full-attacks you, and you burn all your pp preventing it, and the kobold immediately beans you in the back of the head with a rock, you're going to feel it.

Okay, the part of that that confuses me is why you could absorb the full attack. My impression was that each attack applies its damage separately, so you can absorb *one* of them.

[Emperor Tippy]

Okay, the part of that that confuses me is why you could absorb the full attack. My impression was that each attack applies its damage separately, so you can absorb *one* of them.

Correct. But you get to decide after each attack whether or not to absorb it (until you absorb 1 that round). And with miss chance, a AC boosters, etc. odd's are that they are only landing 1 (maybe 2) hit's in the full attack sequence.

[Starbuck_II]

Correct. But you get to decide after each attack whether or not to absorb it (until you absorb 1 that round). And with miss chance, a AC boosters, etc. odd's are that they are only landing 1 (maybe 2) hit's in the full attack sequence.

2 around if have deflect arrows (as they ignores another attack).